Should the closed stations between Preston and Lancaster be reopened? ?

[eldomtom2]

What do you suggest then? and how would you implement it ?

Well, for starters you could always tax flying more...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I have only just come across this thread and on the OP, one of the named settlements is said to be that of Holins Lane. I have not been able to trace such a named settlement as that on the line of what was the Lancaster and Preston Junction Railway, but near to Forton, there is a hamlet called Hollins Lane which seems to have not much more than a church, a post office and a pub from what a family friend who lives in Garstang tells me.

Of all the settlements once served by a railway station between Preston and Lancaster, only Garstang seems worthy population-wise (7.041) of justifying a reopened station.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I have only just come across this thread and on the OP, one of the named settlements is said to be that of Holins Lane. I have not been able to trace such a named settlement as that on the line of what was the Lancaster and Preston Junction Railway, but near to Forton, there is a hamlet called Hollins Lane which seems to have not much more than a church, a post office and a pub from what a family friend who lives in Garstang tells me.

Of all the settlements once served by a railway station between Preston and Lancaster, only Garstang seems worthy population-wise of justifying a reopened station.

The problem being Garstang and all the suburban villages do not have good road (or even pedestrian!) access to the potential station sites. That's why I suggested parkways at Bailrigg and Broughton, which would adequately serve demand for all of south Lancaster, eastern Wyre and northern Preston (including Longridge), plus be useful for blockades.
You could even use the Forest of Bowland as a marketing tool and call it Bowland Parkway - it's only a 15 mins drive/taxi/bus from the edge in Longridge or Beacon Fell Country Park.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The problem being Garstang and all the suburban villages do not have good road (or even pedestrian!) access to the potential station sites. That's why I suggested parkways at Bailrigg and Broughton, which would adequately serve demand for all of south Lancaster, eastern Wyre and northern Preston (including Longridge), plus be useful for blockades.
You could even use the Forest of Bowland as a marketing tool and call it Bowland Parkway - it's only a 15 mins drive/taxi/bus from the edge in Longridge or Beacon Fell Country Park.

You will of course be aware of the former Preston and Longridge Railway, when mentioning Longridge, and of its eventual demise.

Talk of introducing rail connections into the Forest of Bowland area will cause certain blood pressures of local well-heeled groups to rise.

 

[Bald Rick]

Well, for starters you could always tax flying more...

we’re way off topic, as this is a discussion from another thread. So to avoid the red text I’ll finish the discussion by just saying - how much more, with what intention, how do you know it will work, with what socio-economic effects, and finish with that it is of course not within The railways control.

 

[AlastairFraser]

You will of course be aware of the former Preston and Longridge Railway, when mentioning Longridge, and of its eventual demise.

Talk of introducing rail connections into the Forest of Bowland area will cause certain blood pressures of local well-heeled groups to rise.

Hahahaha, the local groups will have to get over themselves for once. My preference long term is for a tram on the old P and L trackbed, because it runs parallel to Preston's busiest bus corridor, the Uni, a potential park and ride site (but that's off topic).
Broughton/Bowland Parkway with a decent sized car park and a bus hub (read small bus station) integrated with the 40/41/45/46 would work for most of the area in the meantime.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The area of the line in question does have regular bus services that serve to Preston to Lancaster towns en route:-
Stagecoach services 40 and 41 run as Morecambe-Lancaster-Preston
Stagecoach service 42 runs Blackpool to Lancaster, serving the more northerly towns towards Lancaster

 

[Bletchleyite]

The area of the line in question does have regular bus services that serve to Preston to Lancaster towns en route:-
Stagecoach services 40 and 41 run as Morecambe-Lancaster-Preston
Stagecoach service 42 runs Blackpool to Lancaster, serving the more northerly towns towards Lancaster

It does, but they're painfully slow.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It does, but they're painfully slow.

They do serve the settlements en route and you must remember that these buses are not there to serve as a fast Preston to Lancaster service which is already catered for by existing rail services, but to enable short bus journeys from one settlement to another., Barton to Garstang being an example of one of these.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They do serve the settlements en route and you must remember that these buses are not there to serve as a fast Preston to Lancaster service which is already catered for by existing rail services, but to enable short bus journeys from one settlement to another., Barton to Garstang being an example of one of these.

They're painfully slow if you're going into Preston from Garstang too, and due to the poor decisions surrounding Preston bus station (it REALLY needs relocating to the railway station with the existing building being repurposed entirely) it's not much use for rail connections either!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The problem being Garstang and all the suburban villages do not have good road (or even pedestrian!) access to the potential station sites. That's why I suggested parkways at Bailrigg and Broughton, which would adequately serve demand for all of south Lancaster, eastern Wyre and northern Preston (including Longridge), plus be useful for blockades.

What options would you suggest for travel to and from these new transport hubs on those not-unheard of periods of time known as "rail-strike days"? One may well wonder what the average daily M6 road traffic of all types is between the Preston and Lancaster areas.

They're painfully slow if you're going into Preston from Garstang too, and due to the poor decisions surrounding Preston bus station (it REALLY needs relocating to the railway station with the existing building being repurposed entirely) it's not much use for rail connections either!

Is that the reason why there is so much road traffic in that stated area? Face facts, there is not a cat in hell's chance of these stations being reopened whilst two tracks seem to be the norm and fast expresses using that line section plus freight traffic services. Again, I reiterate there are bus journeys made between the intermediate settlements on that line. Also, mentioning the relocation of Preston bus station brings to mind the official decision made with regards to the continuing usage of that bus station on its existing site.

 

[eldomtom2]

we’re way off topic, as this is a discussion from another thread. So to avoid the red text I’ll finish the discussion by just saying - how much more, with what intention, how do you know it will work, with what socio-economic effects, and finish with that it is of course not within The railways control.

I don't see why I have to provide a detailed report when you feel no need to give one for maintaining the status quo.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Because the status quo is free?

 

[eldomtom2]

Because the status quo is free?

Except it isn't.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Except it isn't.

Darn site cheaper than the alternative.

 

[Bald Rick]

I don't see why I have to provide a detailed report when you feel no need to give one for maintaining the status quo.

your choice.

 

[eldomtom2]

Darn site cheaper than the alternative.

And your evidence for that is?

 

[Falcon1200]

Well, for starters you could always tax flying more...

I would have thought that should any Government be brave enough to tax flying more in order to pay for rail improvements, the money would not be spent on re-opening wayside stations between Preston and Lancaster......

 

[InkyScrolls]

And your evidence for that is?

The status quo costs are negligible. Maintaining a two-track section of mainline with few (not none, but few) points and associated interlocking. Building six or seven new stations would entail:-

• Surveying
• Feasibility studies
• Ecological reports
• Planning and design
• Building the stations themselves
• Adding either extra loops or a long section of four-tracking
• Which in turn would require complete resignalling of the entire length
• Route learning costs
• The timetable being almost entirely rewritten

I don't know how much that would cost, but you'd be running into the hundreds of millions, if not >£1b. For what? Most of the former stations served virtually nothing, and would never make a case for reopening now. The exceptions that I can see are Bailrigg (including the uni)/Galgate (if you could somehow serve both with one station) and Garstang - but only if you were able to market it as a park-and-ride station (which can work well - c.f. Apperley Bridge for a recent example).

That doesn't ignore the costs however, which even for two stations are very substantial.

 

[eldomtom2]

I would have thought that should any Government be brave enough to tax flying more in order to pay for rail improvements, the money would not be spent on re-opening wayside stations between Preston and Lancaster......

The status quo costs are negligible. Maintaining a two-track section of mainline with few (not none, but few) points and associated interlocking. Building six or seven new stations would entail:-

• Surveying
• Feasibility studies
• Ecological reports
• Planning and design
• Building the stations themselves
• Adding either extra loops or a long section of four-tracking
• Which in turn would require complete resignalling of the entire length
• Route learning costs
• The timetable being almost entirely rewritten

I don't know how much that would cost, but you'd be running into the hundreds of millions, if not >£1b. For what? Most of the former stations served virtually nothing, and would never make a case for reopening now. The exceptions that I can see are Bailrigg (including the uni)/Galgate (if you could somehow serve both with one station) and Garstang - but only if you were able to market it as a park-and-ride station (which can work well - c.f. Apperley Bridge for a recent example).

That doesn't ignore the costs however, which even for two stations are very substantial.

I was making a broader point, not talking about this specific case of reopening these stations.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I was making a broader point, not talking about this specific case of reopening these stations.

But surely you acknowledge much of what I've said applies to all station openings?

 

[eldomtom2]

But surely you acknowledge much of what I've said applies to all station openings?

When you restrict the scope of the status quo to the railway alone, then yes. But that isn't how it works in reality.

 

[InkyScrolls]

But it is from the position of those with potential funding - i.e. the Treasury.

 

[Falcon1200]

I was making a broader point, not talking about this specific case of reopening these stations.

In which case it was surely irrelevant to this topic?!!

 

[eldomtom2]

In which case it was surely irrelevant to this topic?!!

No, because the thread has long contained a conversation about attitudes to ideas.

But it is from the position of those with potential funding - i.e. the Treasury.

Of course, this is essentially taking the Treasury's view as accurate...

 

[InkyScrolls]

No, because the thread has long contained a conversation about attitudes to ideas.


Of course, this is essentially taking the Treasury's view as accurate...

It doesn't matter whether it's accurate or not - they're the ones making the decisions!

 

[eldomtom2]

It doesn't matter whether it's accurate or not - they're the ones making the decisions!

See my points about fatalism...

 

[InkyScrolls]

See my points about fatalism...

There's fatalism and there's realism. Ten years ago (or even five) the situation was different - pre pandemic, pre Russo-Ukrainian war. But now the money simply doesn't exist, and all the half-baked arguments in the world won't change that. Whether you like it or not there has to be significant justification for any new railway project to go ahead.

 

[yorkie]

From this point on, can I ask that we please try to stick to the topic Should the closed stations between Preston and Lancaster be reopened?

We do also ask that contributions are relevant, constructive and add value to the discussion please.

Many thanks in advance

 

[Falcon1200]

No, because the thread has long contained a conversation about attitudes to ideas.

Fair enough. But it does raise the question of how would these re-openings be paid for, and not just the initial infrastructure as well described by @InkyScrolls, but also the ongoing subsidy necessary to provide a suitable train service?