Sounding the horn……??

[dk1]

Really? The next thing drivers will be asking for is a stop watch!

As long as it’s not on a phone/tablet as most certainly a NO NO for obvious reasons. Anything over 3secs that annoys the public at 06:01 or 23:59 is perfectly acceptable though

 

[choochoochoo]

Can’t use ours anywhere on the depot or it’s classed as a near miss! Seems ridiculous to me. Surely you can warn someone you’re heading towards them. In a previous TOC we used ours to enter the fuel shed or as required.

How do you test the horn on a prep if you can’t use it in the depot ? Or is its use only forbidden whilst the train is moving in the depot ?

 

[martin2345uk]

We’re also not allowed to use the horn in the main shed of our depot. When the engineers want to test a horn they have to make an announcement over the tannoy to warn people.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I use it to say “hi” to kids waving, people over the yellow line on platforms, signal to track workers that I’ve seen them acknowledge my sounding of the horn on approach by raising their arms, etc.

One worry I do have is that this may shock the person close to the edge / make them jump, and they may accidentally lose their balance and topple over.

 

[12LDA28C]

One worry I do have is that this may shock the person close to the edge / make them jump, and they may accidentally lose their balance and topple over.

That's a pretty small risk compared to the greater risk of them being too close to the edge of the platform and air turbulence from a passing train sucking them off, fnarr fnarr.

 

[800301]

One worry I do have is that this may shock the person close to the edge / make them jump, and they may accidentally lose their balance and topple over.

On the traction I drive 16x/387/80x, you can modulate the loudness of the horn by not pulling or pushing the handle fully, but in 99% of cases it’s better to give a lot of warning than trying to make it quiet.
Passing Reading at 95mph for example with a packed platform, you’d be getting more than a light toot.
Personally, I feel the 387 horn should be made louder than it is, then you have 80x fleet which has a valve that restricts the air pressure going to the horn below 100mph not that it’s excessively loud anyway. I’m not sure if they’ve all been changed over now but there was a time that they had 2 different types of horns fitted, can’t say I noticed any difference.

Much more a fan of the 745/755 horns as they make people look even if they sound like a strangled duck

 

[Martinwithanx]

One worry I do have is that this may shock the person close to the edge / make them jump, and they may accidentally lose their balance and topple over.

It’s definitely not a “one size fits all” thing. I’d blow-up for 1 person over the yellow line, walking up the platform with their back to me..that happens often.

As does seeing about 100 people who’re all over the yellow line on a Saturday night about 2300, I’ll crawl in, sound the horn, some will wave, none will move back.

I suppose anything can and will happen, I’m worried primarily about people not seeing my approach, hence the “beep”.

And if I don’t sound the horn and someone is injured, I’ll be in bother.

 

[LCC106]

How do you test the horn on a prep if you can’t use it in the depot ? Or is its use only forbidden whilst the train is moving in the depot ?

Not sure of the answer as I don’t do preps and only take trains off the depot once in a blue moon. Seems bizarre!

 

[357]

How do you test the horn on a prep if you can’t use it in the depot ? Or is its use only forbidden whilst the train is moving in the depot ?

When I was a shunter we couldn't blow the horn in the shed. I'd put on the prep slip "horn not tested".

When I became a mainline driver, if I saw that on the slip I'd give a quick toot once leaving the depot.

 

[Lockwood]

"why weren't you looking at where you were going and had a problem?"

"I was looking at the stopwatch to make sure I got over 3.0 seconds on the horn"

"Why were you blowing the horn?"

"I could see I was about to have a problem"

 

[Colin1501]

Many years ago, I travelled from Winchester to London on a semi-fast service worked by a SWT 4-CEP unit. On the non-stop run from Basingstoke to Woking, the driver sounded the horn on the approach to each of the intermediate stations (Hook, Winchfield, etc). I never understood why, as we were on the up fast line which does not run adjacent to any platforms on this stretch. It seems unlikely there were p-way staff on the line at each of the five stations, and I certainly didn't see any from the train (although they could have been on the opposite side).

 

[Welly]

I know a driver who after a close encounter with a slow tractor and trailer at an occupation crossing got into the habit of making a really long blast on the horn every time he approached that crossing afterwards.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Many years ago, I travelled from Winchester to London on a semi-fast service worked by a SWT 4-CEP unit. On the non-stop run from Basingstoke to Woking, the driver sounded the horn on the approach to each of the intermediate stations (Hook, Winchfield, etc). I never understood why, as we were on the up fast line which does not run adjacent to any platforms on this stretch. It seems unlikely there were p-way staff on the line at each of the five stations, and I certainly didn't see any from the train (although they could have been on the opposite side).

I believe that in the railway rule book of the past there was a requirement to sound the horn when approaching any station at which the train was not booked to call. Likewise whenever approaching a tunnel.

Both of these instructions are long since retired.

 

[43066]

I believe that in the railway rule book of the past there was a requirement to sound the horn when approaching any station at which the train was not booked to call. Likewise whenever approaching a tunnel.

Both of these instructions are long since retired.

Similarly when passing a red at danger (having been talked past by the signaller).

 

[craigybagel]

Similarly when passing a red at danger (having been talked past by the signaller).

I still follow this one, despite being well aware it's been removed from the rule book, for three reasons:

*If you're being talked past a red, there's a good chance there's Pway nearby
*When I was a guard and I noticed we were stopped at a red, if I heard the horn and then we set off I could figure out what was going on without needing to disturb the driver at a time they really didn't need disturbing
*It's now an established part of my routine I follow, the last step in a process of checking I really am ok to pass the signal, and I don't want to break that routine up.

I've done it with my DTM sat beside me, he did point out it's not in the rule book anymore but we discussed it after and he's happy with my reasoning.

 

[Gemz91]

I’ve found it strange that the past three trainees I’ve trained, almost instantly are more bothered about tooting at children stood waving on bridges then they are anything else. Couldn’t have had one trainee for more then 15 minutes before they were giving a blast to a family stood waving on a bridge saying that they’ll always toot their horn at kids (it wasn’t their family I asked).

Not sure where they picked this idea up so early. They seemed more interested at tooting at kids then they are at stopping at red signals!

 

[CarrotPie]

They seemed more interested at tooting at kids then they are at stopping at red signals!

That's fine, as long as it's for at least 3 seconds!

 

[357]

he did point out it's not in the rule book anymore but we discussed it after and he's happy with my reasoning.

Did he ask you to do it for three seconds?

 

[12LDA28C]

I believe that in the railway rule book of the past there was a requirement to sound the horn when approaching any station at which the train was not booked to call.

This instruction still exists on the London Underground.

I still follow this one, despite being well aware it's been removed from the rule book, for three reasons:

*If you're being talked past a red, there's a good chance there's Pway nearby
*When I was a guard and I noticed we were stopped at a red, if I heard the horn and then we set off I could figure out what was going on without needing to disturb the driver at a time they really didn't need disturbing
*It's now an established part of my routine I follow, the last step in a process of checking I really am ok to pass the signal, and I don't want to break that routine up.

I've done it with my DTM sat beside me, he did point out it's not in the rule book anymore but we discussed it after and he's happy with my reasoning.

Totally agree with this. Removing this requirement from the Rule Book seemed a retrograde step to me at the time and simply not as safe as sounding the horn.

 

[theironroad]

Not the first time I've heard that but not sure if it's written anywhere


Whistle

tbh, never heard that. I' ve always understood should be AT the whistle board as the board is situated a set distance from the crossing according to linespeed etc. blowing too early may mean its not heard, too late and may be not enough time to finish crossing, all of which more important in fog or other poor vis.

I believe that in the railway rule book of the past there was a requirement to sound the horn when approaching any station at which the train was not booked to call. Likewise whenever approaching a tunnel.

Both of these instructions are long since retired.

Though a few years ago this was partially reinstated, as there is now a requirement to sound the horn on approach to a station that you were *previously* booked to call at, but no longer are. I.e. during disruption when getting a not to call order to skip stations, the rationale being there may be people who see the train approaching and assume it will stop and move towards edge etc. won't speak for others, but certainly wouldn't do it if train diverted onto a through line with no adjacent platform, but always try to otherwise though i sense it probably annoys people waiting for their late/cancelled trans even more.

 

[dangie]

Thank you everyone for your replies. Very interesting.
As is often the case there appears to be quite a bit of conflicting answers, but basically would I be correct in saying that apart from sounding the horn/whistle as a safety warning or say an acknowledgment to lineside workers, it’s not generally allowed to sound it as a friendly gesture for example?

 

[Krokodil]

but basically would I be correct in saying that apart from sounding the horn/whistle as a safety warning or say an acknowledgment to lineside workers, it’s not generally allowed to sound it as a friendly gesture for example?

There's no prohibition

 

[greatkingrat]

The wording in the rule book is

"You must only use the horn as much as is necessary to give an effective warning or to make sure safe working takes place."

It could be argued tooting at a kid waving is not necessary, and therefore not allowed, although I don't think anyone is bothered enough to try and enforce a ban.

 

[43066]

Thank you everyone for your replies. Very interesting.
As is often the case there appears to be quite a bit of conflicting answers, but basically would I be correct in saying that apart from sounding the horn/whistle as a safety warning or say an acknowledgment to lineside workers, it’s not generally allowed to sound it as a friendly gesture for example?

I don’t see any conflicting answers. The discussion above is more about where drivers are specifically required to sound the horn, which has changed over the years, and rules on depots which have local instructions, usually due to local residential considerations. Even there, those instructions can be overridden in the interests of safety, at drivers’ discretion.

Your takeaway really should be that drivers on the mainline can sound the horn whenever they want, for any reason whatsoever, at any time of day or night, at any location, with no risk of sanction.

 

[RPM]

We tend to sound the horn when we see stray Sainsburys carrier bags, although that's not in the rule book.

 

[TurboMan]

Your takeaway really should be that drivers on the mainline can sound the horn whenever they want, for any reason whatsoever, at any time of day or night, at any location, with no risk of sanction.

That's not true though, as the rule book (and the post above yours) says, it should only be used 'as much as is necessary to give an effective warning'. The reason is because overuse results in conditioning, with people on or near the line potentially not responding to a blast on the horn when they should, because they're so used to hearing it all the time for reasons that aren't a warning of a hazard. That's why blowing the horn has been removed from things like passing a signal at danger, to avoid it being overused for reasons that don't specifically relate to an immediate danger.
.

 

[75A]

In my experience (1980/83) Brighton drivers would always sound the horn when entering a tunnel at any time of the day or night. Not sure what the bloke who lived in the cottage on top of the entrance @ the Brighton end of Clayton Tunnel thought.

 

[mangyiscute]

I like it when drivers use a toot to acknowledge a passenger waiting at a request stop, as there's always the slight worry in my mind that the train won't stop for whatever reason (just like a bus driver flashing their lights or indicating in)

 

[TreacleMiller]

We tend to sound the horn when we see stray Sainsburys carrier bags, although that's not in the rule book.

Dont. I was convinced there was a bunch of Pway in a tunnel for a split second last month.

Sainsbury's bags was a new one on me, until then.

 

[75A]

Dont. I was convinced there was a bunch of Pway in a tunnel for a split second last month.

Sainsbury's bags was a new one on me, until then.

Did you say 'oh gosh'