South Wales 'Metro' updates

[CapitalStar378]

We don't have a clear timescale for the extensions to Pierhead St and Central as yet. The funding was only announced a few months back, so there'll be quite a long period of initial design, consultation, etc, before any works on the ground.



[EDIT] Here's an update on the morning Thursday 20th April. More pictures of Cardiff Bay station - there was a dumper truck and excavator there this morning, putting ballast on the reinstated track bed.

View attachment 133399

Yes, those are rails! Placed alongside the ballast at the moment.

View attachment 133400

Terminus end of the new platform.

View attachment 133401View attachment 133402
View from the station approach path - you can just see the yellow excavator unloading the ballast in the distance.

The Bay branch is completely closed for two weeks (15th - 29th April), so I would not be surprised if we see some track and turnouts laid before the line reopens.

Thanks, great shots.

Interesting to lay the track before building the platform, guess the order is dependent on what's going on further up the track during the blockade.

I wonder if there will be any passive provision for the 3rd track and platform that's planned with the extension to Pierhead Street.

 

[MikePJ]

Thanks, great shots.

Thank you!

Interesting to lay the track before building the platform, guess the order is dependent on what's going on further up the track during the blockade.

I wonder if there will be any passive provision for the 3rd track and platform that's planned with the extension to Pierhead Street.

Let's see! If you look at this picture, one interpretation is that the area covered in sleepers will be one track, the ballasted area will make the third track, and the earth bank being constructed to the right will be the third platform. But if, as you said in your earlier post, the platform will be widened beyond the existing retaining wall, then perhaps the area with the sleepers in will be built over.

Yes it is and a new station at Butetown

Not quite the whole branch. This map (see attached - also at post #4131) shows that the whole branch will be dualled, but wires will only go up from Butetown station to Cardiff Bay.

 

[John R]

That's a great map @MikePJ. I've seen an earlier version but not that one. Thanks!

 

[CapitalStar378]

Thank you!

Let's see! If you look at this picture, one interpretation is that the area covered in sleepers will be one track, the ballasted area will make the third track, and the earth bank being constructed to the right will be the third platform. But if, as you said in your earlier post, the platform will be widened beyond the existing retaining wall, then perhaps the area with the sleepers in will be built over.



Not quite the whole branch. This map (see attached - also at post #4131) shows that the whole branch will be dualled, but wires will only go up from Butetown station to Cardiff Bay.

Here are the plans from the Cardiff Council planning site with the extended platform 2 shown in relation to the current platform edge. Also quite interesting generally with the location of future tracks shown.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

So what is the plan for this branch now?
First it was a new station near to the present station, called Loudon Square, and then a new Cardiff Bay terminus on the extended track.

Now the present station is supposed to be staying, along with the extension down to Cardiff Bay’s new station which is now being referred to as Butetown, so I assumed the double tracked current station would be the Loudon Square stop.

but now I’m hearing Loudon Square will be “further north.”

So if they’re building an intermediate station further north of the present Cardiff Bay, retaining the current Cardiff Bay, AND building a terminus - that’s three stations, but it’s two that are planned, right?

Very confused

 

[MikePJ]

So what is the plan for this branch now?
First it was a new station near to the present station, called Loudon Square, and then a new Cardiff Bay terminus on the extended track.

Now the present station is supposed to be staying, along with the extension down to Cardiff Bay’s new station which is now being referred to as Butetown, so I assumed the double tracked current station would be the Loudon Square stop.

but now I’m hearing Loudon Square will be “further north.”

So if they’re building an intermediate station further north of the present Cardiff Bay, retaining the current Cardiff Bay, AND building a terminus - that’s three stations, but it’s two that are planned, right?

Very confused

It is confusing. The existing Cardiff Bay station is going to stay where it is (rather than be relocated further south as was once planned). The “Loudon Square” station is currently being referred to as “Butetown” by TfW, and will be a bit further north than Loudon Square. It’ll be between the two pedestrian underpasses that go under the railway.

Then, once design work is done for the on-street extensions, a line will branch off north of Butetown station to go across Callahan Square to terminate at street level in Cardiff Central’s south car park. At the other end, tracks will pass out of Cardiff Bay station onto the road, go behind the Millennium Centre and then to Pierhead St via some as-yet-unspecified route.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It is confusing. The existing Cardiff Bay station is going to stay where it is (rather than be relocated further south as was once planned). The “Loudon Square” station is currently being referred to as “Butetown” by TfW, and will be a bit further north than Loudon Square. It’ll be between the two pedestrian underpasses that go under the railway.

Then, once design work is done for the on-street extensions, a line will branch off north of Butetown station to go across Callahan Square to terminate at street level in Cardiff Central’s south car park. At the other end, tracks will pass out of Cardiff Bay station onto the road, go behind the Millennium Centre and then to Pierhead St via some as-yet-unspecified route.

Thank you. Is all of that in the second paragraph confirmed as definitely happening or is just a proposal?

 

[MikePJ]

Thank you. Is all of that in the second paragraph confirmed as definitely happening or is just a proposal?

It’s funded, as of a month or so ago, and appears on the TfW infrastructure development map that I posted yesterday. So the outline is definitely going to happen but the fine details are still being worked out.

 

[Dr Day]

Is all of that in the second paragraph confirmed as definitely happening or is just a proposal?

Funding of £50m IIRC was confirmed from UK government's 'levelling up fund' a few months ago (referred to as 'Cardiff Crossrail') so something is definitely happening even if the precise routing of the on-street section is still in development.

What still isn't clear to me from the drawings posted is the proposed service - there appear to be buffer stops at Cardiff Bay implying trains (or more accurately tram-trains) are terminating there, rather than everything from Pontypridd etc carrying on to Pierhead St. Is the plan for a Cardiff Central South-Pierhead St (primarily on-street) shuttle, sharing a common section of track between Butetown and Cardiff Bay with the new through Pontypridd etc-Cardiff Bay service? Is everything from a point south of Queen Street operated on line-of-sight rather than conventional signalling? Will everything be operated by TfW (the TOC) using the same pool of tram trains, with the same pool of traincrew as the rest of the Cardiff Valleys network?

 

[sefyllian]

What still isn't clear to me from the drawings posted is the proposed service - there appear to be buffer stops at Cardiff Bay implying trains (or more accurately tram-trains) are terminating there, rather than everything from Pontypridd etc carrying on to Pierhead St. Is the plan for a Cardiff Central South-Pierhead St (primarily on-street) shuttle, sharing a common section of track between Butetown and Cardiff Bay with the new through Pontypridd etc-Cardiff Bay service? Is everything from a point south of Queen Street operated on line-of-sight rather than conventional signalling? Will everything be operated by TfW (the TOC) using the same pool of tram trains, with the same pool of traincrew as the rest of the Cardiff Valleys network?

Yes, south of Queen Street will be line-of-sight, and yes, it seems the Valleys services will be distinct from the Central one, but presumably using the same trains and crew, as they’ll all be based at the depot in Trefforest.

The longer term aspiration is for a Cardiff Central – Newport Road service, in blue below (solid blue is funded, dashed blue was the subject of a recent consultation, and source of the map).

The Valley services (in red) seem to terminate at Cardiff Bay as now, but possibly in future run further south to the BBC Studios at Porth Teigr and then the barrage.

 

[MikePJ]

Here are the plans from the Cardiff Council planning site with the extended platform 2 shown in relation to the current platform edge. Also quite interesting generally with the location of future tracks shown.

Ah, thanks for those drawings, I'd not seen those before! So yes, the platform's going to be substantially widened, and the existing platform remains a terminus, with the new platform (and eventual third platform) being used for through services to Pierhead St.

 

[adrock1976]

Is (or has) ever been any intention for the Bay trams to head west to Penarth?

 

[krus_aragon]

Is (or has) ever been any intention for the Bay trams to head west to Penarth?

I'm not aware of an intention. The fact that there's a pedestrian/cycle bridge (Pont y Werin) between Cogan station and the Sports Village end of the Bay, plus some water taxi services from the Penarth end of the barrage to the Bay, means I'm not sure how many additional journeys a direct train service would create, compared to the current change at Queen St.

 

[davetheguard]

The longer term aspiration is for a Cardiff Central – Newport Road service, in blue below

First I've heard of this "Newport Road" station on what appears to be the main line west of Cardiff Central. It's certainly not advanced enough to be included in this forum's new stations thread.

Yet the blue line (tramway?) leading from it is shown on the map in post 4,386 as "funded". What about the station itself!?

Any updates to this non-local appreciated!

 

[John R]

First I've heard of this "Newport Road" station on what appears to be the main line west of Cardiff Central. It's certainly not advanced enough to be included in this forum's new stations thread.

Yet the blue line (tramway?) leading from it is shown on the map in post 4,386 as "funded". What about the station itself!?

Any updates to this non-local appreciated!

It's not funded, but the route is fixed, as it is an existing and operational line. There is space at the junction with the main line for the station to be completely off line of the main four track section if required.

Is (or has) ever been any intention for the Bay trams to head west to Penarth?

No, the trams will (except for Cardiff Central and a very short section of the City Line) be limited to railway under the control of TfW, not Network Rail. So the intention has always been for Penarth, Barry, and the VoG Line to be operated by conventional rail stock.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Another thing in regards to the map by @MikePJ in post 4378: I thought the bit from Cardiff Central to Cardiff Queen Street was supposed to be electrified? Have they changed their mind recently?

Again as with Butetown, I thought the plan was not to electrify the Butetown branch? The map now suggests it is from Butetown to Cardiff Bay?

 

[sefyllian]

I thought the bit from Cardiff Central to Cardiff Queen Street was supposed to be electrified? Have they changed their mind recently?

Again as with Butetown, I thought the plan was not to electrify the Butetown branch? The map now suggests it is from Butetown to Cardiff Bay?

I think that’s how it’s always been planned. Central to Queen St was definitely never going to be electrified, because that section is remaining under Network Rail ownership.

Any updates to this non-local appreciated!

Here’s the information pack from the (now closed) consultation:

 

[Baxenden Bank]

First I've heard of this "Newport Road" station on what appears to be the main line west of Cardiff Central. It's certainly not advanced enough to be included in this forum's new stations thread.

Yet the blue line (tramway?) leading from it is shown on the map in post 4,386 as "funded". What about the station itself!?

Any updates to this non-local appreciated!

Newport Road / Rover Way forms part of "£2.7m from the UK government to start the process of adding 5 new stations on the SWML between Cardiff & Severn Tunnel Juntion". So very early stages.

Can anyone confirm if works at Loudoun Square have started on site - proper works not just tree clearance and such like. I have a note "construction of a new station in the city will start before the end of the year. In August 2022 it was announced that the station would be located further north than originally planned, would comprise two platforms, and would open in spring 2024".

 

[adrock1976]

I'm not aware of an intention. The fact that there's a pedestrian/cycle bridge (Pont y Werin) between Cogan station and the Sports Village end of the Bay, plus some water taxi services from the Penarth end of the barrage to the Bay, means I'm not sure how many additional journeys a direct train service would create, compared to the current change at Queen St.

[SNIP]

No, the trams will (except for Cardiff Central and a very short section of the City Line) be limited to railway under the control of TfW, not Network Rail. So the intention has always been for Penarth, Barry, and the VoG Line to be operated by conventional rail stock.

Many thanks.

 

[MikePJ]

Can anyone confirm if works at Loudoun Square have started on site - proper works not just tree clearance and such like. I have a note "construction of a new station in the city will start before the end of the year. In August 2022 it was announced that the station would be located further north than originally planned, would comprise two platforms, and would open in spring 2024".

Butetown aka Loudon Square - there’s a massive construction compound and there seems to be some early earthworks going on, but not a lot to see at this stage.

Additionally: it seems planning permission had been granted today for Crwys Road station: https://twitter.com/mrmikegriffiths/status/1646801778317328385?s=20

South Wales Metro update - Cardiff Council grants planning permission for Crwys Road station in Cathays. https://cardiffidoxcloud.wales/publicaccess/files/0BB771E8CC020D048AF949C4AE9D2573/pdf/PRAP_22_00046_MJR-DECISION_NOTICE-5720861.pdf

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Butetown aka Loudon Square - there’s a massive construction compound and there seems to be some early earthworks going on, but not a lot to see at this stage.

Additionally: it seems planning permission had been granted today for Crwys Road station: https://twitter.com/mrmikegriffiths/status/1646801778317328385?s=20

Thanks.

Technically Crwys Road has 'prior approval granted' rather than 'planning permission'. Same result but a slightly different process.
In very simple terms you say to the Planning Authority (the council): We are proposing to build this, we think we have permission to do it already (known as Permitted Development Rights), do you agree? In a similar way you can build an extension on your house, or a shed in the garden, up to a certain size without needing to apply for planning permssion.

 

[CapitalStar378]

Thanks.

Technically Crwys Road has 'prior approval granted' rather than 'planning permission'. Same result but a slightly different process.
In very simple terms you say to the Planning Authority (the council): We are proposing to build this, we think we have permission to do it already (known as Permitted Development Rights), do you agree? In a similar way you can build an extension on your house, or a shed in the garden, up to a certain size without needing to apply for planning permssion.

Am still waiting for confirmation from TfW on Twitter as to when they plan to start building Crwys Road, has only been two weeks so far....did get a 'we don't know and will get back to you' response pretty quickly though

 

[MikePJ]

I thought it might be worth re-visiting the timeline in post 4131 to see how things have progressed. That timeline was taken from consultation documents that TfL's Infrastructure Manager function (subcontracted to Amey) put out, letting train operating companies know of proposed changes to the network. What I hadn't realised at the time is that those documents vanish off the web once the consultation closes, so we don't have the original document to refer to. However, there is currently a consultation open, dated 6th April, (copy attached - I've learned my lesson) which seeks to make some small variations to those plans.

Checking through the timeline, with my comments in italics.

Happened so far:

• 18th March 2023: Migration of Operations Control from WROC (Welsh Rail Operations Centre) to CVLICC (Core Valley Lines Control Centre at Taff's Well) - Should have happened. 6th April consultation document says no changes are to be made to these plans.
• 7th April 2023: removal of southern access to Rhymney Sidings (no more run-round moves possible) - again, should have happened by now.

Coming soon:

• 29th April 2023: closure of Radyr Junction and Abercynon signal boxes
• 3rd May 2023: signalling commissioning from Radyr to Llandaff and Radyr to Ninian Park. Migration of signallers from Radyr and Abercynon to the new control centre at Taff's Well
• 8th May 2023: infrastructure changes to track and signalling will be commissioned from Radyr North to Merthyr Tydfil. Taff's Well depot for class 398 tram-trains will be connected to the main line.

For all of the above: there's a whole string of programmed closures coming up, with the City Line being closed as of today (23rd April) until at least the 2nd May. The route between Queen St and Pontypridd is also closed from Tuesday 25th, reopening between Queen St and Radyr on 3rd May and reopening to Pontypridd on the 13th May

• 15th May 2023: infrastructure change with track and signalling alterations will be commissioned from Abercynon to Aberdare: the Aberdare branch is closed until 15th May.
• 31st July 2023: A new interface will be created between the signalling control area of the CVLICC and the existing token signalling system of the Treherbert line, subject to the Design Programme date: this now won't happen as the Treherbert line is to be closed until February 2024 and completely resignalled.
• 2nd June 2023: Energise the Overhead Line Electrification System (“OLE”) from Pontypridd to Waun-gron Park and Llandaff. The whole system between Queen St, Aberdare, Merthyr (and of course Treherbert) is to close from 21st May until 3rd June, presumably to allow for OLE commissioning.

Further ahead:

• 28 June 2023: Energise the OLE from Pontypridd to Aberdare.
• 8th August 2023: Energise the OLE from Abercynon to Merthyr Tydfil.
• Date unspecified, but during 2023 "Platform extensions will be implemented at: Taff’s Well, Danes Court, Fairwater and Waun-gron Park stations (seven platforms in total) in addition to new platforms at Treherbert, Ynyswen, Dinas Rhondda, Aberdare, and Quakers Yard to serve the new passing loops."
• Platform alterations will standardise vertical distance between top of rail and platform surface ("platform height") without compromising existing structure gauge - but this will facilitate level boarding for passengers as the trains will have pop-out footsteps.
• Signalling: new signals will break up long block sections. Track circuits will be replaced with axle counters, and all signalling will be multiple aspect colour light.
• Passing Loops: Single line track sections will be doubled with new passing loops between Pentre-Bach and Merthyr Tydfil, at Quakers Yard between Cwmbach and Aberdare, and from Ynyswen to Treherbert. Existing passing loops and double-
  track sections will be extended north of Mountain Ash, from Porth to Dinas Rhondda and north of Ystrad Rhondda to increase capacity. The existing Route Availability (“RA”) of each line will be preserved.

The 6th April consultation document is primarily about a few alterations to planned line speeds. Looking at the comparison diagrams (I'm not 100% sure if the "before" diagrams in red are as the lines are at present, or the previous proposed changes) it seems that a few speed restrictions are being tweaked by 5mph here or there, such as 60mph being reduced to 55mph on the City Line around Fairwater, whereas the Up Llandaff is being increased from 55mph to 60mph between Cathays and Llandaff.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I thought it might be worth re-visiting the timeline in post 4131 to see how things have progressed. That timeline was taken from consultation documents that TfL's Infrastructure Manager function (subcontracted to Amey) put out, letting train operating companies know of proposed changes to the network. What I hadn't realised at the time is that those documents vanish off the web once the consultation closes, so we don't have the original document to refer to. However, there is currently a consultation open, dated 6th April, (copy attached - I've learned my lesson) which seeks to make some small variations to those plans.

Checking through the timeline, with my comments in italics.

Happened so far:

• 18th March 2023: Migration of Operations Control from WROC (Welsh Rail Operations Centre) to CVLICC (Core Valley Lines Control Centre at Taff's Well) - Should have happened. 6th April consultation document says no changes are to be made to these plans.
• 7th April 2023: removal of southern access to Rhymney Sidings (no more run-round moves possible) - again, should have happened by now.

Coming soon:

• 29th April 2023: closure of Radyr Junction and Abercynon signal boxes
• 3rd May 2023: signalling commissioning from Radyr to Llandaff and Radyr to Ninian Park. Migration of signallers from Radyr and Abercynon to the new control centre at Taff's Well
• 8th May 2023: infrastructure changes to track and signalling will be commissioned from Radyr North to Merthyr Tydfil. Taff's Well depot for class 398 tram-trains will be connected to the main line.

For all of the above: there's a whole string of programmed closures coming up, with the City Line being closed as of today (23rd April) until at least the 2nd May. The route between Queen St and Pontypridd is also closed from Tuesday 25th, reopening between Queen St and Radyr on 3rd May and reopening to Pontypridd on the 13th May

• 15th May 2023: infrastructure change with track and signalling alterations will be commissioned from Abercynon to Aberdare: the Aberdare branch is closed until 15th May.
• 31st July 2023: A new interface will be created between the signalling control area of the CVLICC and the existing token signalling system of the Treherbert line, subject to the Design Programme date: this now won't happen as the Treherbert line is to be closed until February 2024 and completely resignalled.
• 2nd June 2023: Energise the Overhead Line Electrification System (“OLE”) from Pontypridd to Waun-gron Park and Llandaff. The whole system between Queen St, Aberdare, Merthyr (and of course Treherbert) is to close from 21st May until 3rd June, presumably to allow for OLE commissioning.

Further ahead:

• 28 June 2023: Energise the OLE from Pontypridd to Aberdare.
• 8th August 2023: Energise the OLE from Abercynon to Merthyr Tydfil.
• Date unspecified, but during 2023 "Platform extensions will be implemented at: Taff’s Well, Danes Court, Fairwater and Waun-gron Park stations (seven platforms in total) in addition to new platforms at Treherbert, Ynyswen, Dinas Rhondda, Aberdare, and Quakers Yard to serve the new passing loops."
• Platform alterations will standardise vertical distance between top of rail and platform surface ("platform height") without compromising existing structure gauge - but this will facilitate level boarding for passengers as the trains will have pop-out footsteps.
• Signalling: new signals will break up long block sections. Track circuits will be replaced with axle counters, and all signalling will be multiple aspect colour light.
• Passing Loops: Single line track sections will be doubled with new passing loops between Pentre-Bach and Merthyr Tydfil, at Quakers Yard between Cwmbach and Aberdare, and from Ynyswen to Treherbert. Existing passing loops and double-
  track sections will be extended north of Mountain Ash, from Porth to Dinas Rhondda and north of Ystrad Rhondda to increase capacity. The existing Route Availability (“RA”) of each line will be preserved.

The 6th April consultation document is primarily about a few alterations to planned line speeds. Looking at the comparison diagrams (I'm not 100% sure if the "before" diagrams in red are as the lines are at present, or the previous proposed changes) it seems that a few speed restrictions are being tweaked by 5mph here or there, such as 60mph being reduced to 55mph on the City Line around Fairwater, whereas the Up Llandaff is being increased from 55mph to 60mph between Cathays and Llandaff.

Thanks for that information. I had totally lost sight of how much was happening so soon. I note a lot Queen Street to Pontypridd gets live OHLE within months and I did not expect that so soon. Would 756s be temporarily use-able on that ?.

 

[MikePJ]

Would 756s be temporarily use-able on that ?.

Probably not worth the hassle. TfW will want to get 398s on the route right away, to maximise time for driver training and debugging before the timetable change in December. There are already 8 units in the UK (2 at Taff’s Well and 6 at Old Dalby) according to the 398 thread, so I expect they’ll be out and about as soon as the wires are energised.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Probably not worth the hassle. TfW will want to get 398s on the route right away, to maximise time for driver training and debugging before the timetable change in December. There are already 8 units in the UK (2 at Taff’s Well and 6 at Old Dalby) according to the 398 thread, so I expect they’ll be out and about as soon as the wires are energised.

398s in service from the December TT change? I thought they weren’t due until 2024?

 

[MikePJ]

398s in service from the December TT change? I thought they weren’t due until 2024?

I've not seen that confirmed either way, to be honest. Back in January they were still talking about getting 398s running by December 2023. The most recent project update from TfW (which is mostly talking about how everything is costing more) suggests that they will focus on getting a small section of the route up and running early on. That could well be as little as Queen St - Pontypridd, as there'll be political pressure to be seen to have delivered something by the original deadline. But it could well slip into 2024. Meanwhile, this page is promising a number of improvements in Dec 2023, including running a Sunday service on the City and Coryton lines.

EDIT: Rail Express’s article on TfW this month says no 398s in service until 2024.

 

[mrmartin]

Thanks for that information. I had totally lost sight of how much was happening so soon. I note a lot Queen Street to Pontypridd gets live OHLE within months and I did not expect that so soon. Would 756s be temporarily use-able on that ?.

I imagine they want to get them energized asap to deter cable theft?

 

[59CosG95]

I imagine they want to get them energized asap to deter cable theft?

Definitely after the recent incident at Llandaf(f).

 

[Peter Sarf]

398s in service from the December TT change? I thought they weren’t due until 2024?

That was also my understanding - 398s not until well into 2024. Could the 756s cope with running beyond the OHLE from Pontypridd all the way to the ends of some/all of the lines to Treherbert, Aberdare and/or Merthyr Tydfil ?.