South Wales 'Metro' updates

[javelin]

Metrolink has smaller flanges than standard heavy rail, so had to have raised checkrails on the converted Altrincham and Bury lines, which are still compatible with standard railway wheels and have been used by ballast wagons and even a steam locomotive during engineering works.

Sure, but my point is Sheffield isn't a great example and makes the issue look harder than it need be. Most of the problem with Sheffield was that Supertram was designed specifically for standard tram wheels, and built-in those limitations. That necessitated the use of a complex tram-train wheel profile that further complicated the mitigation neccessary on the NR tracks.

If you are designing the light rail sections from scratch like Cardiff you can build-in a more tram-train friendly rail profile. Street running with a modified heavy rail wheel profile can be done, as demonstrated by Metrolink, and that significantly simplifies the modifications needed on heavy rail sections.

 

[Snow1964]

National Grid has issued info on its substation with 107t transformers to convert 275kv to 25kv at Upper Boat near Pontypridd

New grid connection helps Transport for Wales deliver faster, greener rail travel in South Wales | National Grid Group

New National Grid connection sees Transport for Wales (TfW) electrify historic line and introduce faster, greener trains.

www.nationalgrid.com

 

[MikePJ]

he tram-train vehicle is a variation on a design used in Karlsruhe (dual 15kV/750V) and Sheffield (750V with unused capability for 25kV), so may be relatively easy to convert to 750V if that becomes necessary in future.

Indeed (and to Greybeard’s point) - the vehicle most likely uses 750V internally, and steps down from 25kV and rectifies to DC. The challenge with dual-voltage and dual-current is a) ensuring sufficient clearance/insulation for 25kV b) ensuring switchgear can cope with DC (where it has to break current and prevent an arc) rather than AC where it can rely on the zero-crossing of the waveform to help. So it may be as simple as fitting a different breaker.

[without getting into too much of a digression, the electrical aspects of the Sheffield tram-train trial was considerably over complicated by the desire to have both the vehicle and the overhead line equipment made compatible with 25kV despite both being operated at 750V for the foreseeable future]

 

[edwin_m]

Sure, but my point is Sheffield isn't a great example and makes the issue look harder than it need be. Most of the problem with Sheffield was that Supertram was designed specifically for standard tram wheels, and built-in those limitations. That necessitated the use of a complex tram-train wheel profile that further complicated the mitigation neccessary on the NR tracks.

If you are designing the light rail sections from scratch like Cardiff you can build-in a more tram-train friendly rail profile. Street running with a modified heavy rail wheel profile can be done, as demonstrated by Metrolink, and that significantly simplifies the modifications needed on heavy rail sections.

Can you say what heavy rail modifications you are thinking of, if they aren't raised check rails? As far as I can see tram-trains either need raised check rails on any heavy rail pointwork, or a much larger groove (larger than Supertram or Metrolink) on any grooved rail sections. I guess there may be some solution around thin flanges and standard rail back to back, but that seems to me to be asking for lateral instability.

 

[Greybeard33]

If you are designing the light rail sections from scratch like Cardiff you can build-in a more tram-train friendly rail profile. Street running with a modified heavy rail wheel profile can be done, as demonstrated by Metrolink, and that significantly simplifies the modifications needed on heavy rail sections.

In what way does that "significantly simplify" the modifications needed on heavy rail sections? AIUI the only mods needed are raised check rails on switches and crossings, either for the Metrolink wheel profile or for the Sheffield wheel profile. That was manageable for the short shared section through Rotherham, where there are only a few switches and crossings, but more challenging if the whole of the S Wales Metro network between Cardiff and Merthyr, Treherbert and Aberdare must be modified.
(Edit: @edwin_m beat me to it!)

Incidentally the Sheffield wheel profile is not compatible with the original Supertram grooved rail. The tram-train project replaced the rails on the tram-train route with a new type of rail that has a bigger groove.

Indeed (and to Greybeard’s point) - the vehicle most likely uses 750V internally, and steps down from 25kV and rectifies to DC. The challenge with dual-voltage and dual-current is a) ensuring sufficient clearance/insulation for 25kV b) ensuring switchgear can cope with DC (where it has to break current and prevent an arc) rather than AC where it can rely on the zero-crossing of the waveform to help. So it may be as simple as fitting a different breaker.

The likely modification will be to add a contactor to connect the pantograph directly to the internal DC bus, together with interlocks to ensure that this contactor is always open when under AC wires. The pantograph itself might also need modification to cope with the higher DC current.

The point stands that it would have been easier/cheaper to include these modifications in the initial build, rather than retrofit them.

 

[MikePJ]

The point stands that it would have been easier/cheaper to include these modifications in the initial build, rather than retrofit them.

Oh certainly, but in the public sector it's rare to both have 100%-accurate foresight and the funding available to pay for features that may come in handy later. Generally only passive provision can be justified to the funders at the initial stage. The Sheffield project was unusual in this regard because it was a DfT-sponsored trial - a lot of money was spent on capabilities that may never be used.

 

[_toommm_]

Can you say what heavy rail modifications you are thinking of, if they aren't raised check rails? As far as I can see tram-trains either need raised check rails on any heavy rail pointwork, or a much larger groove (larger than Supertram or Metrolink) on any grooved rail sections. I guess there may be some solution around thin flanges and standard rail back to back, but that seems to me to be asking for lateral instability.

I thought they were raised check rails, if I remember from the National Rail Sectional Appendix as it bans certain locomotives and wheel skates from Rotherham Central unless in extreme circumstances.

 

[edwin_m]

I thought they were raised check rails, if I remember from the National Rail Sectional Appendix as it bans certain locomotives and wheel skates from Rotherham Central unless in extreme circumstances.

If it's only raised check rails, then it's covered by previous discussion.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Noticed the other day work going on in Porth - the old track has been removed ready for new re-doubled track to go in. It's the first major work Ive seen going on since closure.

 

[Bob Price]

Metro signage at Pengam including Overhead line sign.

 

[MrCheeseGrater]

Metro signage at Pengam including Overhead line sign.

Looks quite smart. Always love a bit of consistent corporate branding. Let's hope they spread it across the network as there are still many old Arriva relics many of which are rusting signs and fences that haven't been repainted for years.

 

[positron]

Metro signage at Pengam including Overhead line sign.

Intriguing that they're branding the Rhymney line up when that's the last one to get Metro branded trains. (231s aren't metro branded for some reason?). I assume that the TAM lines can't be far behind.

 

[PaulHarding150]

Intriguing that they're branding the Rhymney line up when that's the last one to get Metro branded trains.

People won’t care or notice that the trains don’t have the word metro on them.

They’ll notice clean signs, new trains and an increased frequency.

 

[Dai Corner]

Intriguing that they're branding the Rhymney line up when that's the last one to get Metro branded trains. (231s aren't metro branded for some reason?). I assume that the TAM lines can't be far behind.

Because they'll be going to Cheltenham.

 

[Envoy]

So much for both languages having equal status! Clear discrimination against the English only speaking majority.

 

[hilly]

So much for both languages having equal status! Clear discrimination against the English only speaking majority.

Where’s the discrimination? The fact that you have to look at the Welsh versions first before the English version?

 

[positron]

Where’s the discrimination? The fact that you have to look at the Welsh versions first before the English version?

I think they're referring to the Welsh being bold and the English not. Which is odd at first sight but if you put everything in bold it's no longer emphasising. Personally don't overly care about it but my brains trained to find the English might be different for a visitor?

 

[Envoy]

Where’s the discrimination? The fact that you have to look at the Welsh versions first before the English version?

Well, if you think it is not discriminatory, why not put the English first and in bold print and then see who kicks off about it?

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Metro signage at Pengam including Overhead line sign.

The standard of Welsh on that last sign is apalling. It looks like a Google translate job and contains five major errors in one short sentence.

Why can't public bodies get it right first time rather than having to go to the expense of removing and replacing signs when errors are pointed out? One wonders whether some staff members have lied about their fluency in Welsh when applying for jobs. It wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Dai Corner]

Well, if you think it is not discriminatory, why not put the English first and in bold print and then see who kicks off about it?

I believe it's illegal for public bodies to make English more prominent than Welsh.

 

[Envoy]

I believe it's illegal for public bodies to make English more prominent than Welsh.

They originally said that both languages should have equal status. That is clearly not now the case. Anyway, we digress from the topic of The Metro and this is clearly not the place to discuss language policy in Wales.

 

[emoaconr]

So much for both languages having equal status! Clear discrimination against the English only speaking majority.

Ridiculous comment.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think they're referring to the Welsh being bold and the English not. Which is odd at first sight but if you put everything in bold it's no longer emphasising. Personally don't overly care about it but my brains trained to find the English might be different for a visitor?

I must admit I find it very hard to read the road signs in Cardiff. Two separate signs with one language having a slightly different colour background might help.

Well, if you think it is not discriminatory, why not put the English first and in bold print and then see who kicks off about it?

Would the English speakers resort to vandalism etc ?.

I believe it's illegal for public bodies to make English more prominent than Welsh.

Its a difficult call. BUT then again what do the majority speak and read in South Wales ?.

Ridiculous comment.

What is ridiculous is the seeming majority having to cater for a minority.

---

Meanwhile I am looking forward to seeing 756s in action on their Metro routes and 398s as well.

Does anyone know which are likely to stat first - I assume 756s are more likely to see service first as they can cope with some not yet electrified parts ?.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I believe it's illegal for public bodies to make English more prominent than Welsh.

Which is nothing but completely awkward vanity by the Welsh government, seeing as many speak English and not Welsh but almost nobody speaks Welsh who does not English, but there we go.

It’s also wildly hypocritical that Welsh announcements preceed English ones on train services within England entirely like Chester Crewe, Chester Liverpool, etc, but an argument for another time.

Metro signage at Pengam including Overhead line sign.

Thank god the Arriva faded turquoise is finally on its way out. It clashes awfully with the white and red trains. I just pray Cardiff Central gets a “reddening” like Queen Street did, as the knackered green all over the roof and everywhere looks really worn and ugly, and clashes with TfW’s trains. I know that particular green is to denote the heritage of the GWR and not Arriva’s corporate colours, but it looks attrocious now and the station is owned by TfW anyway.

 

[Mag_seven]

Discussions about the signs in Welsh language related to this project should be confined to observations and updates not opinions. Thanks.

 

[positron]

Does anyone know which are likely to stat first - I assume 756s are more likely to see service first as they can cope with some not yet electrified parts ?.

I think the plan currently is for the 398s to start first. But I guess if the 756s can cope with no electrification they might start the driver training on them sooner to displace the 231s to their proper routes. It would be nice to avoid the alleged plan of replacing the 231s with 150s until the Rhymney work is done.

 

[CapitalStar378]

Which is nothing but completely awkward vanity by the Welsh government, seeing as many speak English and not Welsh but almost nobody speaks Welsh who does not English, but there we go.

It’s also wildly hypocritical that Welsh announcements preceed English ones on train services within England entirely like Chester Crewe, Chester Liverpool, etc, but an argument for another time.


Thank god the Arriva faded turquoise is finally on its way out. It clashes awfully with the white and red trains. I just pray Cardiff Central gets a “reddening” like Queen Street did, as the knackered green all over the roof and everywhere looks really worn and ugly, and clashes with TfW’s trains. I know that particular green is to denote the heritage of the GWR and not Arriva’s corporate colours, but it looks attrocious now and the station is owned by TfW anyway.

Central is managed by TfW but not owned, hopefully this won't preclude them from giving the station a good paint though, as the canopies do indeed look very shabby. I'm also not a fan of the orange lights, looks very odd at night.

 

[cactustwirly]

Central is managed by TfW but not owned, hopefully this won't preclude them from giving the station a good paint though, as the canopies do indeed look very shabby. I'm also not a fan of the orange lights, looks very odd at night.

Station painting needs to be done with the co-operation of network rail. Obviously it needs to be done when the trains aren't running

 

[Hwnt52]

The standard of Welsh on that last sign is apalling. It looks like a Google translate job and contains five major errors in one short sentence.

Why can't public bodies get it right first time rather than having to go to the expense of removing and replacing signs when errors are pointed out? One wonders whether some staff members have lied about their fluency in Welsh when applying for jobs. It wouldn't be the first time.

I happened to be in Lisvane Station last Wednesday waiting for a train north and a small group of men in orange suits were putting up these signs. I pointed out to the foreman that the 'Welsh' version of the direction signs was complete gobbledygook with different gobbledygook on the southbound sign to the northbound one. It was as if someone had translated the English version word for word, often choosing the wrong words. Google translate would actually have produced a perfectly adequate version. Presuming that these signs will be put up at all stations on the Rhymney line and no doubt on the Taff lines as well, this will be a huge waste of money since they will all have to be replaced.

 

[PaulHarding150]

Has anyone formally told TfW?