South Wales 'Metro' updates

[daodao]

As well as the immediate settlement, Hirwaun might plausibly become an attractive railhead for a wider rural area...

Most of whose population are sheep, not people.

 

[Dai Corner]

Most of whose population are sheep, not people.

Maybe an opportunity for the return of livestock trains to get the sheep to abattoir or market? It would give the redundant 150s and 153s an extended life before they make their final journey to Sims in Newport docks.

 

[Envoy]

If they could get the extension from Aberdare to the A4059 at Hirwaun, it could include a free car park which would surely induce the residents of Penderyn & Rhigos to use the Metro? This would be a far easier place to reach for any shuttle mini buses linking with the nearby tourist attractions than the rather slow road into Aberdare. With such easy access, it would surely attract tourists - who might be based in hotels in Cardiff - to travel up the valley on the Metro. This would have the added bonus of evening out the flow - at least in summer - as they would be going in the opposite direction to commuters from the valleys.

Many thanks everyone for your continued contributions.

 

[Bald Rick]

Maybe an opportunity for the return of livestock trains to get the sheep to abattoir or market? It would give the redundant 150s and 153s an extended life before they make their final journey to Sims in Newport docks.

Previous proposals for this have been rather woolly.

 

[daodao]

the residents of Penderyn & Rhigos

Whose combined population is under 3,000.

 

[Dr Day]

The main barrier to reintroducing the line, no matter how easy and practical it could be, is funding

The capital cost to upgrade is one thing, the ongoing additional subsidy to operate the services and maintain the infrastructure it is another.

I wonder whether the extra capital and operating cost would give enough benefit

Exactly. Whilst a few costs may have reduced due to the more tram-like vehicle and governance transfer, the majority are still driven by heavy rail standards and staff Ts and Cs.

 

[Wolfie]

Previous proposals for this have been rather woolly.

You are just bleating about anything innovative....

 

[Dai Corner]

Exactly. Whilst a few costs may have reduced due to the more tram-like vehicle and governance transfer, the majority are still driven by heavy rail standards and staff Ts and Cs.

Not to mention the rolling stock leasing costs. The profitable bit of the railway industry and the one which isn't being nationalised (bar the purchase of a few Mk4 coaches).

 

[John R]

The population of Hirwaun is only about 5,000. Would extending the Cynon Valley rail line beyond its current natural terminus of Aberdare, which is a substantial town with a population of 40,000, really be worthwhile or viable? There is already a frequent bus service from Aberdare to Hirwaun (at least Mon-Sat daytime). This extension has been under "limited" consideration for many years, but does not form part of the major upgrade to the Valley Lines now in progress.

That’s less of an issue with the ribbon development you see in the valleys. As an example, Treherbert doesn’t have a large population (5,700) to justify it being the end of the line. Nor does Rhymney (8,700).

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

That’s less of an issue with the ribbon development you see in the valleys. As an example, Treherbert doesn’t have a large population (5,700) to justify it being the end of the line. Nor does Rhymney (8,700).

Exactly. Extending the line to Hirwaun or further, along with a P+R facility would also provide an attractive public transport link for residents of the upper Neath valley. The Metro after all is meant to address cross-valley conectivity as well as commuter flows to Cardiff.

 

[John R]

Exactly. Extending the line to Hirwaun or further, along with a P+R facility would also provide an attractive public transport link for residents of the upper Neath valley. The Metro after all is meant to address cross-valley conectivity as well as commuter flows to Cardiff.

Good point. Glyn-neath to Hirwaun is only 10 mins drive - you double that to get to Aberdare, and the parking will be more of an issue.

 

[TravelDream]

Good point. Glyn-neath to Hirwaun is only 10 mins drive - you double that to get to Aberdare, and the parking will be more of an issue.

Aberdare train station has a fairly large car park which is free for rail users. There's also two large car parks under five minutes walk from the station. On one side the local council leisure centre car park (pay and display I think) and on the other side the local college car park (free).

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder this is a Infrastructure & Stations thread to discuss updates regarding the South Wales 'Metro'

If anyone wishes to discuss anything else, please create a new thread (if there isn't one already) in the appropriate forum section

Speculation can be posted in the Speculative Ideas section please.

Thanks

 

[Envoy]

Cardiff Council are running a consultation regarding walking/cycling routes. I note that they propose to turn the ‘protected’ new Metro line running north westward from Fairwater into a walking/cycling route. All well and good but I see trouble ahead if this gets established and then they wish to build the Metro line out to Cregiau - linking with the City Line just north of Fairwater station - as shown on the Metro plans. In order to have both running side by side, they will need to protect from development a wider alignment. You can clearly see this if you click the box for ‘Cregiau & St.Fagans’.

Walking and cycling in Cardiff

Have your say on our draft Active Travel Network Map (ATNM), which sets out existing and proposed routes for walking and cycling within the Cardiff Council area.

cardiffatnm.commonplace.is

The Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013 requires all local authorities in Wales to plan a network of walking and cycling routes so that people can more easily get around for their everyday journeys to work, school and other local destinations.

This plan is set out in the Active Travel Network Map (ATNM), which looks ahead over a 15 year period.

 

[K.o.R]

No because the line north of Aberdare is currently closed, even if you can see it on Google maps/satellite.

So closed in fact that at least one person is using it as a footpath!

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

 

[Dai Corner]

So closed in fact that at least one person is using it as a footpath!

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

goo.gl

I suppose that proves that demand exists for travel along the route.

 

[Tumbleweed]

I can imagine that level crossing in Roberttown would be a hindrance. It was OK for a 'once a day' freight train but a regular passenger service? Not so sure. Isn't it policy now to have no level crossings on new lines?

 

[Dai Corner]

I can imagine that level crossing in Roberttown would be a hindrance. It was OK for a 'once a day' freight train but a regular passenger service? Not so sure. Isn't it policy now to have no level crossings on new lines?

I'm not sure whether it's just NR policy, so not applicable to TfW lines, but in any case presumably the extension could be operated as a tramway, getting round any such problems?

 

[Tumbleweed]

Yeah possibly it doesn't apply to light rail since trams can run on streets.

 

[edwin_m]

A road crossing on a tramway is simply a set of traffic signals from the road user's point of view, and shouldn't be described as a level crossing. Driving on sight and having emergency track brakes, the sort of hazards with a railway level crossing don't really exist here.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I can imagine that level crossing in Roberttown would be a hindrance. It was OK for a 'once a day' freight train but a regular passenger service? Not so sure. Isn't it policy now to have no level crossings on new lines?

Given that NR can't even be arsed getting round to eliminating level crossings on the SWML, I don't see one more making much of a difference.

 

[John R]

Given that NR can't even be arsed getting round to eliminating level crossings on the SWML, I don't see one more making much of a difference.

I don't think ORR works like that though. In Portishead, when a road was built severing the existing (disused) track close to the town centre everyone was promised that it wouldn't make a difference if the plans to reopen the line came to fruition. The crossing would be restored.

But when those plans came forward, ORR said no to a level crossing on principal. So the station will now be sited further out in a less convenient location, and will presumably be less attractive to people faced with a longer walk to use it.

 

[AlexNL]

A road crossing on a tramway is simply a set of traffic signals from the road user's point of view, and shouldn't be described as a level crossing. Driving on sight and having emergency track brakes, the sort of hazards with a railway level crossing don't really exist here.

Depends. When the city of Utrecht built their new tramway they've had some intersections kitted out like a proper level crossing, due to the high speed the tram runs at.

 

[The exile]

Depends. When the city of Utrecht built their new tramway they've had some intersections kitted out like a proper level crossing, due to the high speed the tram runs at.

A full track- brake emergency stop is unpleasant enough on a tram at slowish speed. I imagine that if the trams are running faster than 50kph ( most urban trams are doing a lot less than that!) you want to do whatever’s possible to avoid that happening - even if it can still be done.

 

[WesternBiker]

I don't think ORR works like that though. In Portishead, when a road was built severing the existing (disused) track close to the town centre everyone was promised that it wouldn't make a difference if the plans to reopen the line came to fruition. The crossing would be restored.

But when those plans came forward, ORR said no to a level crossing on principal. So the station will now be sited further out in a less convenient location, and will presumably be less attractive to people faced with a longer walk to use it.

The ORR decision on the level crossing is incredibly frustrating, for the reasons you state. Their own published guidance says: "This guidance applies when the protection arrangements at existing crossings are reviewed. It will also apply when new crossings are created." [My italics.]

They seem to have judged that, in this case, the volume of traffic on the road (Quays Avenue) raises the risk to an unacceptable level - so the revised plans show a pedestrian crossing at that point instead. I suspect the absolute risk from that - especially people hurrying if they are late to catch a train - may be higher, but of course that is considered by a different body...

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

The railway line between Aberdare and Pontypridd will be closed between Saturday 28th August and Sunday 12th September, according to Transport for Wales.
A spokesperson for TfW said: “The 16-day closure will allow engineers to carry out complex work including repositioning signals, installing and testing new equipment, devegetation, realigning the track, and installing the foundations for overhead line equipment.”

https://news.tfw.wales/news/south-wales-metro-work-to-continue-in-the-cynon-valley

 

[CardiffKid]

The main barrier to reintroducing the line, no matter how easy and practical it could be, is funding. If we still had access to EU structural funds it would be a prime candidate for EU funds as a straightforward follow on from the CVL project, as a large part of the Valley lines upgrades are being funded with the last round of EU structural funds we are entitled to.

But we no longer have access to EU structural funds and the UK Govt are showing no signs of sticking the their promise of Welsh Govt "not losing a penny" of the cash Wales was entitled to from EU funds. Not only that, UK Govt don't want Welsh Govt to have a say in how any replacement funds are spent either.

Genuine question, how much will reopening/opening cost? A few million, peanuts really. Just get on and do it, it’s been spoken about for 10+ years now.

 

[krus_aragon]

Genuine question, how much will reopening/opening cost? A few million, peanuts really. Just get on and do it, it’s been spoken about for 10+ years now.

My mind's eye conjured a picture of a fleet of lorries delivering peanuts to the contractors, to pay them for their work. :P

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Genuine question, how much will reopening/opening cost? A few million, peanuts really. Just get on and do it, it’s been spoken about for 10+ years now.

Opening derelict freight lines to passenger traffic isn't cheap. It's not a direct comparison but the project to reopen the line to Portishead as part of the Metro West plans was budgeted to cost £116m and has probably gone up since then.

The recent WG decision on freezing highway projects does free up some spending but there are a lot of competing projects not just on the SW Metro but in other parts of Wales and from other modes of public transport and active travel.

 

[Robertj21a]

Genuine question, how much will reopening/opening cost? A few million, peanuts really. Just get on and do it, it’s been spoken about for 10+ years now.

What other (far more justified?) projects would you put back in order to pay for these 'few million' ?