South Wales 'Metro' updates

[AdamWW]

A guess, but to break the conductive steel fence into sections so if the 25kV conductor comes into contact with it only a limited section of it becomes live instead of potentially (pun intended) several miles?

Where I've looked closely at ones behind catenary posts they have had earthing cables bridging them, so that's certainly not what those ones are for.

Maybe they aren't all being used for the same purpose.

But I thought the idea was that everything metal that the wires might touch is well earthed so it doesn't become live in the first place - certainly a lot of earthing has been done at stations where the wires have gone up.
I presume this means that if the wires touch them it draws a large enough current to be detected as a fault and the power is automatically cut off.

I don't know if the grounding to the rails is divided into sections for some reason - if so, given that the fences share that ground, then you'd presumably need an electrical break in the fencing as well. But that doesn't explain insulating fencing where the fencing starts or ends.

 

[MikePJ]

Fibreglass palisade fencing is used to avoid the need to earth-bond the fence, which can be expensive as bond wires need to be attached to every single panel. The need to bond the fence comes where the fence is within a certain distance of the railway and its associated structures, so I think the fibreglass panels are being used where the fence comes within range, and cheaper metal panels (kept further away) are being used elsewhere.

 

[AdamWW]

Fibreglass palisade fencing is used to avoid the need to earth-bond the fence, which can be expensive as bond wires need to be attached to every single panel. The need to bond the fence comes where the fence is within a certain distance of the railway and its associated structures, so I think the fibreglass panels are being used where the fence comes within range, and cheaper metal panels (kept further away) are being used elsewhere.

That doesn't seem to be how they're being used.

It doesn't look to me as if individual fence panels are earth bonded.
But some of the insulating panels do have bonds connecting the metal fences on either side.

 

[edwin_m]

Sounds like a touch potential issue. Under certain fault conditions two metal structures might be at significantly different potentials, and if they are close enough that someone can be touching both of them, then that person could be exposed to dangerous currents.

 

[MikePJ]

Sounds like a touch potential issue. Under certain fault conditions two metal structures might be at significantly different potentials, and if they are close enough that someone can be touching both of them, then that person could be exposed to dangerous currents.

Ah, that makes sense to me. There must be some other reason why they didn't make the entire fence out of GRP though - perhaps its about the risk to lineside neighbours. If a 25kV wire touched an insulating boundary fence, nothing would happen but anything/one that came near the wire would get shocked. If the fence is earth-bonded, at least it'll trip the breakers.

In other news, I went past Cardiff Bay this morning - still no platform changeover at the Bay station. The exposed sheet-pile at Butetown has all been piled into the ground and there are a couple of circular pile caps just north of Butetown station that look new (the kind that are used for overhead line structures or signals). A line of trees at the base of the railway embankment has been cut down opposite the Salvation Army building on Bute St. This will be for the new entrance at the Cardiff end of the Cardiff-bound platform - having looked up the planning drawings for the station, there's going to be an access to the street at both ends of each platform, and a flat crossing for pedestrians at the north end. The planning drawing also shows the overhead line ending immediiately north of the new station, before the line reaches the "Cart Road Feeder Underpass" (the cycle/foot underbridge, which I learned from Bob's Rail Relics used to be a canal!)

 

[AdamWW]

Sounds like a touch potential issue. Under certain fault conditions two metal structures might be at significantly different potentials, and if they are close enough that someone can be touching both of them, then that person could be exposed to dangerous currents.

Sounds like a good explanation.
I'll have to have a look and see what metal bits are nearby for the ones that aren't next to a catenary post. It's not straightfoward though, since some catenary posts seem to need them and some don't.

I've not come across this before but I presume it's not something new invented just for this electrification scheme. (Though searching the internet for information hasn't been helpful).

Ah, that makes sense to me. There must be some other reason why they didn't make the entire fence out of GRP though

Metal fences might also be cheaper.

before the line reaches the "Cart Road Feeder Underpass" (the cycle/foot underbridge, which I learned from Bob's Rail Relics used to be a canal!)

I used to wonder why such a low bridge was so wide, till I looked at an old map.

 

[MikePJ]

I took a ride on the Bay branch this morning to look at the construction progress. Looking out from the train you can now see the tops of the sheet piling that's been installed to stabilise the embankment and support the new Cardiff-bound platform at Butetown.

There's still plenty of work to do and I see that TfW have programmed a week-long shutdown on the Bay line every month for the next few months: the weeks of 16th March, 14th April and 10th May.
However, there's no sign of a major Queen Street shutdown - which I'd expect for both trackwork and signalling work that was due to be commissioned between now and the summer.

 

[AdamWW]

However, there's no sign of a major Queen Street shutdown - which I'd expect for both trackwork and signalling work that was due to be commissioned between now and the summer.

It could still be planned, they just haven't fixed the date.

Or indeed it is planned but they just haven't got to making the information publicly available yet. This is TfW and public communication is not their strong point.

Not sure what's going on from Monday to Wednesday next week.

It looks as if the usual service from Pontypridd to the Bay is split at Queen Street, with the Bay service operating as a shuttle to Queen Street like it used to.

This is in addition to the major disruption that closing the City Line now causes.

 

[MikePJ]

It could still be planned, they just haven't fixed the date.

Or indeed it is planned but they just haven't got to making the information publicly available yet. This is TfW and public communication is not their strong point.

Not sure what's going on from Monday to Wednesday next week.

It looks as if the usual service from Pontypridd to the Bay is split at Queen Street, with the Bay service operating as a shuttle to Queen Street like it used to.

This is in addition to the major disruption that closing the City Line now causes.

Very true - we could well have a sudden shutdown sprung on us.

With the City Line works next week my suspicion is that they're trying to get more throughput through Queen Street to handle trains that would otherwise go on the City Line. Getting the Bay-Pontypridd train across the junction into Platform 4 ties up a lot of track capacity so I can see that dropping it gives the signallers a lot more flexibility.

 

[AdamWW]

Very true - we could well have a sudden shutdown sprung on us.

With the City Line works next week my suspicion is that they're trying to get more throughput through Queen Street to handle trains that would otherwise go on the City Line. Getting the Bay-Pontypridd train across the junction into Platform 4 ties up a lot of track capacity so I can see that dropping it gives the signallers a lot more flexibility.

I can see how turning the bay service into a shuttle helps.

I'd have thought that turning round at Queen Street is also disruptive, and an odd decision to keep the Pontypridd to Cardiff trains as the trains that would have gone round the City line provide the extra 2 trains per hour that they normally do (and their main use seems to be providing a good connection to Llandaff and Cathays for trains that go round the City Line).

But actually the answer seems to be that nothing is turning round at Queen Street and the information from TfW isn't as helpful as it might be.

I think there is an error in their "planned improvement work" page (not to be confused with "Metro service changes"):
"Trains between Cardiff Bay and Pontypridd will run now run as a shuttle service between Cardiff Queen Street and Pontypridd"
Presumably it should say Cardiff Bay and Queen Street.

(It also fails to make it clear that Penarth services will be cut to 1 train per hour.)




Actually thinking about this a bit more, I don't see why Queen Street needs something to help capacity.

Since the Pontypridd-Bay trains are dropped, it's still 6 trains per hour through Queen Street via Pontypridd, including the ones that would have gone round the City Line.

3 out of 4 trains per hour to Penarth are dropped (presumably to create capacity at Central for 6 trains an hour to turn round) so there are already fewer trains through Queen Street than normal even if the Bay-Pontypridd trains ran as normal.

 

[Cardiff123]

I can see how turning the bay service into a shuttle helps.

I'd have thought that turning round at Queen Street is also disruptive, and an odd decision to keep the Pontypridd to Cardiff trains as the trains that would have gone round the City line provide the extra 2 trains per hour that they normally do (and their main use seems to be providing a good connection to Llandaff and Cathays for trains that go round the City Line).

But actually the answer seems to be that nothing is turning round at Queen Street and the information from TfW isn't as helpful as it might be.

I think there is an error in their "planned improvement work" page (not to be confused with "Metro service changes"):
"Trains between Cardiff Bay and Pontypridd will run now run as a shuttle service between Cardiff Queen Street and Pontypridd"
Presumably it should say Cardiff Bay and Queen Street.

(It also fails to make it clear that Penarth services will be cut to 1 train per hour.)




Actually thinking about this a bit more, I don't see why Queen Street needs something to help capacity.

Since the Pontypridd-Bay trains are dropped, it's still 6 trains per hour through Queen Street via Pontypridd, including the ones that would have gone round the City Line.

3 out of 4 trains per hour to Penarth are dropped (presumably to create capacity at Central for 6 trains an hour to turn round) so there are already fewer trains through Queen Street than normal even if the Bay-Pontypridd trains ran as normal.

Cutting 3/4 of the trains from Penarth this week will be a surprise to many, it's half term as well, when the trains are usually busier throughout the day.
There's no replacement buses either and as far as I can see, no ticket acceptance with Cardiff Bus.

There's even fewer trains running through Pontypridd today as flooding south of Tonypandy means trains are turning around there and running back up to Treherbert.

 

[AdamWW]

Cutting 3/4 of the trains from Penarth this week will be a surprise to many, it's half term as well, when the trains are usually busier throughout the day.
There's no replacement buses either and as far as I can see, no ticket acceptance with Cardiff Bus.

There's even fewer trains running through Pontypridd today as flooding south of Tonypandy means trains are turning around there and running back up to Treherbert.

I suspect it's not a coincidence that they picked half term though it might not have been the best approach.

They did start publicising the service reductions on Thursday, along with announcing that they had arranged ticket acceptance on Cardiff bus.

No way for me to know if they were pushed into this after complaints or had it planned all along and just didn't get round to telling people - though a bit odd that the City Line closure itself was announced much earlier.

Of course the ticket acceptance doesn't work if you're using PAYG capping.

It's come as a surprise to me that the current service patterns aren't just extremely fragile, but also if the City Line is closed Penarth has to go down to 1 train per hour.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I think we all understand that, after decades of little or no investment, the Metro programme was bound to be disruptive at times. There's no excuse for the poor communication though.

 

[WelshBluebird]

There's no excuse for the poor communication though.

I'm not surprised anymore.

They only gave a month's notice for closing the Treherbert line for 10 months. That was despite rumours going around locally for a couple of months before it was officially actually announced.

Then there's the various city line, bay line and Queen Street closures that have all come at short notice.

The fact they are still doing short notice closures without communicating long enough in advance just shows they haven't learned anything in that department.

Let's just hope once all the work is done there isn't anything else that needs doing!

 

[Cardiff123]

I'm not surprised anymore.

They only gave a month's notice for closing the Treherbert line for 10 months. That was despite rumours going around locally for a couple of months before it was officially actually announced.

Then there's the various city line, bay line and Queen Street closures that have all come at short notice.

The fact they are still doing short notice closures without communicating long enough in advance just shows they haven't learned anything in that department.

Let's just hope once all the work is done there isn't anything else that needs doing!

There's no excuse for the poor communication, but this does show the flexibility that TfW has being both the operator of the rail service and owner/manager of the infrastructure.
I doubt Network Rail would get away with such short notice closures, NR must have a statutory notice period that they have to give TOCs for planned works. NR's planned week long closure of the Vale of Glamorgan lines at the end of March was announced at least 6 weeks in advance.

 

[Dai Corner]

There's no excuse for the poor communication, but this does show the flexibility that TfW has being both the operator of the rail service and owner/manager of the infrastructure.
I doubt Network Rail would get away with such short notice closures, NR must have a statutory notice period that they have to give TOCs for planned works. NR's planned week long closure of the Vale of Glamorgan lines at the end of March was announced at least 6 weeks in advance.

I believe it's supposed to be 12 weeks.

Not being accountable to anybody, not being subject to any sanctions for poor performance and not having to plan very far in advance could be regarded as an advantage but passengers might see it otherwise.

 

[Bald Rick]

I doubt Network Rail would get away with such short notice closures, NR must have a statutory notice period that they have to give TOCs for planned works.

It’s quite complicated. The process is that disruptive works - eg blockades and any weekend closures are initially notified no later than 64 weeks out from the start of the timetable period (works for the 6 months from April / May of 2026 were notified 6 weeks ago).

However, any works can be proposed at any notice - this is required to be able to deal with emergency works, such as the bridge over the Thames near Oxford a couple of years back. I have personally arranged many major disruptive works at as little as 7 days notice, albeit in a crisis.

As an extreme example, If all operators agreed, you could have a 2 year block of Cardiff starting tomorrow morning. But all operators wouldn’t agree (unless it was an absolute emergency and matter of public safety) so that wouldn’t happen.

However where there is only one operator, and the closure is for work being paid for by that operator’s parent ‘group’, and they have full knowledge of all the financial pros and cons, it can be much easier to arrange at short notice.

 

[Envoy]

I have not seen any announcements of these extensive line closures in the Metro area on BBC, ITV or Media Wales (Wales on Line). This is appalling as being half term, no doubt many people who are not regulars have been showing up at stations to find no trains. This would not happen in London where BBC TV breakfast local insert has a list running of any problems.

Does anyone know what work they are carrying out?

 

[AdamWW]

I think we all understand that, after decades of little or no investment, the Metro programme was bound to be disruptive at times. There's no excuse for the poor communication though.

I wouldn't have guessed just how disruptive, let alone the lack of communication. Isn't there a station that still hasn't reopened?

Then there's the various city line, bay line and Queen Street closures that have all come at short notice.

The fact they are still doing short notice closures without communicating long enough in advance just shows they haven't learned anything in that department.

The odd thing is that the City Line closure was announced a reasonable time ago. I don't know when the other changes were visible on travel planners but they were there for a fair while before the posters went up and they announced them on their web site, both of which only happened on Thursday.

So I think it's more a short notice communication issue than the closure itself taking place at short notice.

It seems to me that their PR operates in a silo - one part of the organisation is churning out positive news on Twitter and putting out press releases, while another part is giving out information late or not at all without any regard for the negative impact.

The posters for the Penarth and Coryton service reductions (which incidentally appear not have been put up at Queen Street) don't give any reason - not even a vague mention of engineering works.

When they reduced Penarth services to 2 trains per hour and closed the Coryton Line for 2 weeks at almost no notice, they put out a press release gushing about how wonderful it was that they were doing electrification work but without any acknowledgement of, let alone apology or explanation for, the fact that it had been forced on people with very little warning. (Or the fact that their current timetable means that closing the Coryton line has a big impact on Penarth services when previously it could be done with much less impact).

And there's also the way they removed one service from the otherwise half hourly timetable on the Coryton line without, so far as I'm aware, any notification whatsoever. (And therefore, of course, no explanation - though I think it was to make a path for the rail head treatment train).

 

[Pat Figg]

I've just discovered that the last 2 trains to Aberdare (and Merthyr?) today involve a replacement bus from Ponty. Wish I'd known - I'd have changed my plans. Just had a quick look on 'Planned Improvement Works' on the website and can't see any mention of it. Might have missed it though. Tapped off now and in Ponty Spoons. I suppose I should probably tap back on now to get the bus but not sure I can be arsed.

 

[Cardiff123]

I wouldn't have guessed just how disruptive, let alone the lack of communication. Isn't there a station that still hasn't reopened?


The odd thing is that the City Line closure was announced a reasonable time ago. I don't know when the other changes were visible on travel planners but they were there for a fair while before the posters went up and they announced them on their web site, both of which only happened on Thursday.

So I think it's more a short notice communication issue than the closure itself taking place at short notice.

It seems to me that their PR operates in a silo - one part of the organisation is churning out positive news on Twitter and putting out press releases, while another part is giving out information late or not at all without any regard for the negative impact.

The posters for the Penarth and Coryton service reductions (which incidentally appear not have been put up at Queen Street) don't give any reason - not even a vague mention of engineering works.

When they reduced Penarth services to 2 trains per hour and closed the Coryton Line for 2 weeks at almost no notice, they put out a press release gushing about how wonderful it was that they were doing electrification work but without any acknowledgement of, let alone apology or explanation for, the fact that it had been forced on people with very little warning. (Or the fact that their current timetable means that closing the Coryton line has a big impact on Penarth services when previously it could be done with much less impact).

The 0950 from Penarth was cancelled this morning meaning there was a 2 hour gap between services. Some people argue the Penarth line is one of the quietest lines on the network so it doesn't matter, but people who rely on the service would disagree

 

[AdamWW]

The 0950 from Penarth was cancelled this morning meaning there was a 2 hour gap between services. Some people argue the Penarth line is one of the quietest lines on the network so it doesn't matter, but people who rely on the service would disagree

There was, at least, ticket acceptance on buses.

I've just discovered that the last 2 trains to Aberdare (and Merthyr?) today involve a replacement bus from Ponty. Wish I'd known - I'd have changed my plans. Just had a quick look on 'Planned Improvement Works' on the website and can't see any mention of it. Might have missed it though. Tapped off now and in Ponty Spoons. I suppose I should probably tap back on now to get the bus but not sure I can be arsed.

I can't see it either. But there was information at Queen Street (handwritten, I think).

 

[Cardiff4]

There will be no trains at all, all day, every day, for an entire week 29 March - 4 April on the VoG lines Cardiff - Barry - Bridgend, and Cardiff - Penarth, and also Coryton - Cardiff (likely as a result of the Penarth line being closed).

What are Network Rail doing that week to justify closing those lines all day, every day for an entire week?

Rail improvement works | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

Journey Planners are showing a Coryton to Cardiff Bay service operating on 29th March and 31st March - 4th April.

 

[Pat Figg]

There was, at least, ticket acceptance on buses.



I can't see it either. But there was information at Queen Street (handwritten, I think).

Again, tonight the last 2 trains to Aberdare involve a replacement bus from Ponty. The last but one train to Merthyr also involves a bus but the last train is running (according to the journey planner anyway - I'd probably have my doubts about that). The last train to Treherbert is also a bus. Still can't find any notice about this in 'Planned Improvements' or 'Metro Improvements'.

 

[AdamWW]

Journey Planners are showing a Coryton to Cardiff Bay service operating on 29th March and 31st March - 4th April.

Fascinating. And it's a full half hourly service all day, unlike the normal timetable.

 

[MikePJ]

Some shots of Butetown station from the Bute Street side. The new sheet piling has been used to take the load off the retaining wall, allowing the wall to be partially demolished for access.

 

[positron]

Some shots of Butetown station from the Bute Street side. The new sheet piling has been used to take the load off the retaining wall, allowing the wall to be partially demolished for access.

Good to see them finally making some progress on it, even if slowly. No signs of any further work at the bay end of the line. I would have expected they'd want to get it moved over to the new side so they can get on with doing the new upline and platforms in one go.

 

[MikePJ]

Good to see them finally making some progress on it, even if slowly. No signs of any further work at the bay end of the line. I would have expected they'd want to get it moved over to the new side so they can get on with doing the new upline and platforms in one go.

I'm wondering if the plan is now to install all the new pointwork at its final location rather than just slewing the track across. There are a series of week-long shutdowns of the Bay line planned, one per month for the next few months.

 

[Philip Roberts]

Some shots of Butetown station from the Bute Street side. The new sheet piling has been used to take the load off the retaining wall, allowing the wall to be partially demolished for access.

Great pictures, thanks. Is the plan still for it to open by the end of the year?

 

[MikePJ]

Great pictures, thanks. Is the plan still for it to open by the end of the year?

We don’t really know because TfW haven’t published a project plan update for ages. The last official document I saw that mentioned it in passing said “during 2026”, so I think the odds of it opening this year are low.

Here’s a couple of pictures from Cardiff Bay this morning. A new passenger information board has appeared next to the temporary entrance on Lloyd George Avenue:



Seen through the glass of the bus shelter is the pile cap for an overhead line mast, and a kit of parts for the mast and cantilever itself:



A few other pilecaps now have mast bases fixed to them.

At Butetown there’s been some profiling of the embankment north of the platform.