Southern Class 455 Withdrawal

[Class455]

Why? Is there any evidence that the residual service on the Caterham/Tattenham route is overloaded? You would imagine that the operator is monitoring revenue and demand on each of its routes since March 2020 and allocating resources accordingly.

The services which run on the cut back network should be those for which there is visible demand, not what looks good on a timetable.

There does seem to be demand for Caterham/Tattenham to Victoria peak services to return as I've seen quite a few Twitter comments asking about it's return, however with the current plan, the Caterham line still sees 4tph throughout the morning peak so doesn't really make much difference and passengers can use 2JXX services which are fast from Purley to East Croydon and change there for Victoria. The only real benefit I see is passenger convenience. The Tattenham branch has its frequency halved in the morning peak when it would be 4tph with the Victoria peak services. I'd personally like to see them return but we shall see if demand will eventually return to pre-pandemic levels!

 

[Goldfish62]

That definitely wont happen I can assure you.

SWR will need them if/when the decision is taken to dump the 701s.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

SWR will need them if/when the decision is taken to dump the 701s.

Ridiculous to think they’ll cancel a ninety strong order and use the ever dying 455s for three plus more years.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Ridiculous to think they’ll cancel a ninety strong order and use the ever dying 455s for three plus more years.

I don't think Goldfish62 was actually being serious...

 

[Class455]

Looks like there’s a trio off for storage at Hove Yard today:

Realtime Trains | 5Z50 1607 Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Hove Yard | 07/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Z50 1607 departure from Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Hove Yard on 07/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Meanwhile three came back north to Stewart’s Lane this afternoon as 5Y86. No idea of unit numbers for these.

Realtime Trains | 5Y86 1243 Hove Yard to Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D | 07/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Y86 1243 departure from Hove Yard to Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D on 07/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Class 466]

Epsom Downs is becoming very 377 saturated on weekends now. 3 of the 4 Epsom Downs services I saw while on the route the other day were 377, with only one 455. I don’t know what the fifth was.

Each weekend is different dependant on engineering blocks and what the person doing the stock workings decides to diagram out.

No, just GTR.

Although I'm not sure about swr, but Southeatern certainly aren't.

Southeastern have some rolling stock changes coming up as well as a more significant timetable change in December.

 

[Class455]

Each weekend is different dependant on engineering blocks and what the person doing the stock workings decides to diagram out.


Southeastern have some rolling stock changes coming up as well as a more significant timetable change in December.

And I assume said rolling stock change will release the 377/5’s to return to Southern?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Each weekend is different dependant on engineering blocks and what the person doing the stock workings decides to diagram out.


Southeastern have some rolling stock changes coming up as well as a more significant timetable change in December.

I am well aware of that dec change for Southeastern.

 

[Class455]

Looks like there’s a trio off for storage at Hove Yard today:

Realtime Trains | 5Z50 1607 Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Hove Yard | 07/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Z50 1607 departure from Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Hove Yard on 07/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Meanwhile three came back north to Stewart’s Lane this afternoon as 5Y86. No idea of unit numbers for these.

Realtime Trains | 5Y86 1243 Hove Yard to Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D | 07/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Y86 1243 departure from Hove Yard to Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D on 07/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Y86 was 455841, 455838 and 455839
5Z50 was 455809, 455830 along with one other, can anyone confirm?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

To clarify, are they all just taking turns to be stored at Hove? Storage at Hove isn't for stood down units, or is it?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

To clarify, are they all just taking turns to be stored at Hove? Storage at Hove isn't for stood down units, or is it?

It seems so.

 

[Surreytraveller]

To clarify, are they all just taking turns to be stored at Hove? Storage at Hove isn't for stood down units, or is it?

Its only because Selhurst Depot is short of space due to damage done during February's storm that still hasn't been fixed. Otherwise they'd be kept at Selhurst

 

[Matt Taylor]

Reported on the system as 5816 with 5809 & 5830 on 5Z50 this afternoon.

 

[BlueTrainLady]

I heard in March a rumour that Class 455 were going but didn’t think it was true, glad I got a good few new spots of a few 455’s this Wednesday at Guildford station if they are going.

 

[Southern Dvr]

I heard in March a rumour that Class 455 were going but didn’t think it was true, glad I got a good few new spots of a few 455’s this Wednesday at Guildford station if they are going.

Those were SWR Class 455 units at Guildford, they’ll be around a little longer.

455830 & 455841 have appeared at Streatham Hill Down Sidings.

 

[physics34]

Got 3hrs plus driving them on weds and thurs. I guess i should try and enjoy my last few shifts on them. Generally i like em, but long shifts on them can be tiresome

 

[StephenHunter]

It's a rather small cab isn't it?

 

[physics34]

It's a rather small cab isn't it?

Yeh... legrooms the problem

 

[Timmyd]

So is it confirmed we are going to 5 car formations instead of 8s on the lines out of London Bridge?

 

[Class 466]

So is it confirmed we are going to 5 car formations instead of 8s on the lines out of London Bridge?

Between May & September yes, from September remains to be seen (but probably).

 

[WesternLancer]

So is it correct to say that the SR class 455s will now actually end before their SWR 455 cousins - which have been expected to go for quite a while IIRC?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

So is it correct to say that the SR class 455s will now actually end before their SWR 455 cousins - which have been expected to go for quite a while IIRC?

It is.

 

[JonathanH]

So is it correct to say that the SR class 455s will now actually end before their SWR 455 cousins - which have been expected to go for quite a while IIRC?

Yes, Southern 455s end on Saturday 14 May. SWR 455s don't have an end date but it will be later than 14 May.

 

[physics34]

Yes, Southern 455s end on Saturday 14 May. SWR 455s don't have an end date but it will be later than 14 May.

And when the 701s finally get the green light, they were meant to replace 458s first.

 

[bramling]

To me the GTR Southern cutbacks in May seem driven by the "happy" coincidence of having the 455s near the end of their life

IF 3 years ago the 455s had been replaced by new 700/701 type stock (assuming it was all in service) or even if an order had been placed for 700s which were just entering service now, then this option wouldn't have existed.

Absolutely. Same with the 365s (and 442s) - opportunistic.

GTR does have a couple of fallbacks should demand rise - it seems doubtful the 379s are going to be leased to anyone else, and there’s also the 377/5s - if anything goes wrong between now and December then the 313s could simply be retained longer.

Of course, the 379 owners will be aware of all this too. It will be interesting to see who blinks first. I get the feeling GTR want them, but it is DFT who are procrastinating.

 

[StephenHunter]

The 442s did have looming accessibility issues; they would have needed some very costly mods in a few years. Not sure what was wrong with the 365s though; Great Northern could probably have used them as they're reliant on 700s for north of Stevenage operations.

 

[brad465]

Considering the 455s are verging on 40 years old I think their withdrawal now is both necessary and sensible, what isn't as sensible is not having full replacements to maintain the level of service before they depart.

 

[JonathanH]

Considering the 455s are verging on 40 years old I think their withdrawal now is both necessary and sensible, what isn't as sensible is not having full replacements to maintain the level of service before they depart.

They do have the replacements to maintain the same level of service. Clearly not the same level of capacity but it isn't the first time shorter formations have been introduced to replace a train fleet, far from it.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Not sure what was wrong with the 365s though; Great Northern could probably have used them as they're reliant on 700s for north of Stevenage operations.

They relied on station mounted DOO equipment, being the only trains left on the GN that required this the cost of maintaining the station equipment was no longer worthwhile

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes, Southern 455s end on Saturday 14 May. SWR 455s don't have an end date but it will be later than 14 May.

Many thanks for the confirmation. Cheers

It is.

Also- thanks.