Stagecoach South West - Fleet News & Discussion

[Jamesbus80]

I fail to see the reasoning behind this one: I have used the 9A all the way from Exeter to Lyme Regis and the ridership has been good on the Seaton - Lyme Regis section so that will be a nuisance for quite a few people and I will be surprised if there isn't a reaction to this one. One pointer might be that getting buses through Lyme Regis may be proving a tight squeeze but if that is the case then SCSW could simply use the car park as a terminus which I have known them do once before.

Agreed - must be honest, I thought this too. Seems a little illogical removing this leg just in time for the summer break, when ridership will be up throughout the summer. The Lyme Regis extension usually needs one extra bus in to the PVR... as you say, maybe getting buses through Lyme Regis and the additional traffic on the road means the route could loose reliability or need more than one additional bus? Would have thought a withdrawal after the summer - or a reduction to every 2 hours or similar - makes more sense, but then I don’t know any of the finances.

 

[Peter Philips]

Is it just Exeter services changing in July or do we expect changes/cuts in Plymouth and Torbay too?

Later dates for other areas!

 

[RELL6L]

This appears to be one of the most depressing proposed withdrawals I have seen ever!
The 4 - yes is parallels the train but what about the villages it serves, especially Ottery St Mary
The 5A and 5B are very depressing, they serve a decent part of rural mid Devon
The 9A seems very petty, it has appeared that the Lyme Regis section is well patronised and it connects to the First Jurassic Coaster services. There's no point in making it two hourly between Seaton and Lyme Regis as there is nothing the bus not going to Lyme Regis can do (except have a break which would be difficult to schedule), I suppose you could cut it back to two-hourly east of Sidford but that would reduce the service to Seaton.

I can't speak for the Exeter city services but it would appear passengers are being driven away by Stagecoach's awful reliability and that is just suicidal.

One worries there may be more to come - closure of Bude and withdraw 6/6A now there is a railway paralleling the best part? Reductions in Barnstaple? Reductions around Newton Abbot - scrap/cut the 88? Scary. And to do all this at once would put so much pressure on Devon to try and cover things then that would be difficult. Looks like a death wish!

 

[150249]

This appears to be one of the most depressing proposed withdrawals I have seen ever!
The 4 - yes is parallels the train but what about the villages it serves, especially Ottery St Mary
The 5A and 5B are very depressing, they serve a decent part of rural mid Devon
The 9A seems very petty, it has appeared that the Lyme Regis section is well patronised and it connects to the First Jurassic Coaster services. There's no point in making it two hourly between Seaton and Lyme Regis as there is nothing the bus not going to Lyme Regis can do (except have a break which would be difficult to schedule), I suppose you could cut it back to two-hourly east of Sidford but that would reduce the service to Seaton.

I can't speak for the Exeter city services but it would appear passengers are being driven away by Stagecoach's awful reliability and that is just suicidal.

One worries there may be more to come - closure of Bude and withdraw 6/6A now there is a railway paralleling the best part? Reductions in Barnstaple? Reductions around Newton Abbot - scrap/cut the 88? Scary. And to do all this at once would put so much pressure on Devon to try and cover things then that would be difficult. Looks like a death wish!

I mean... They could at least try...

 

[DaveHarries]

One worries there may be more to come - closure of Bude and withdraw 6/6A now there is a railway paralleling the best part? Reductions in Barnstaple? Reductions around Newton Abbot - scrap/cut the 88? Scary. And to do all this at once would put so much pressure on Devon to try and cover things then that would be difficult. Looks like a death wish!

Who knows. Bude has 4 routes serving it (6, 6A, 85 and, albeit once each way per day, 319) so Bude is not completely useless although I can't help wondering in passing if more frequent running from Bude to Barnstaple has ever been tried. The 6 & 6A could loose out a bit to GWR's Okehampton service (40 minutes trip to Exeter Central on the train but around 20 minutes slower on the bus) although the 6 & 6A provide links that the trains do not thanks to the fact that they cover Launceston and Bude and also serve places such as Whiddon Down, Tedburn St. Mary and Pathfinder Village which have no train service at all.

As for the 4/4A between Cranbrook and Axminster via. Ottery St. Mary I wonder if another operator (Dartline Coaches or Hatch Green Coaches) might attempt to cover that.

July 31 Exeter changes are appearing now on Traveline. All previous reductions remain with substantial further reductions as follows:
[.....]
K and L do appear to be cancelled which can't be right.
[.....]
RED now serves all stops running every 20 minutes partially replacing the K.

Although this is correct a registration turned up on the VOSA Bus Registrations Search on 27th June for changes to Service B which, it seems, will become Services B1 & B2: the route on the registration is given as "Pinhoe and Science Park to Exminster, Dawlish and Teignmouth via. Exeter High Street" which, along with the changes to the Red P&R, suggests replacement of the K but not as a single route. As for the 5A/5B/5C routes registrations - but not cancellations - also turned up for these on 27th June with no changes to the route as far as can be seen so it looks as if these will be staying put.

Dave

 

[embers25]

Who knows. Bude has 4 routes serving it (6, 6A, 85 and, albeit once each way per day, 319) so Bude is not completely useless although I can't help wondering in passing if more frequent running from Bude to Barnstaple has ever been tried. The 6 & 6A could loose out a bit to GWR's Okehampton service (40 minutes trip to Exeter Central on the train but around 20 minutes slower on the bus) although the 6 & 6A provide links that the trains do not thanks to the fact that they cover Launceston and Bude and also serve places such as Whiddon Down, Tedburn St. Mary and Pathfinder Village which have no train service at all.

As for the 4/4A between Cranbrook and Axminster via. Ottery St. Mary I wonder if another operator (Dartline Coaches or Hatch Green Coaches) might attempt to cover that.



Although this is correct a registration turned up on the VOSA Bus Registrations Search on 27th June for changes to Service B which, it seems, will become Services B1 & B2: the route on the registration is given as "Pinhoe and Science Park to Exminster, Dawlish and Teignmouth via. Exeter High Street" which, along with the changes to the Red P&R, suggests replacement of the K but not as a single route. As for the 5A/5B/5C routes registrations - but not cancellations - also turned up for these on 27th June with no changes to the route as far as can be seen so it looks as if these will be staying put.

Dave

So the B from Pinhoe to Dawlish looks like making a return of sorts, hopefully using the nice bus stops they have on Pinn Lane like old times. I see the 6 and 6A registrations are also showing registered but there are no timetables yet. It looks like interesting times are ahead.

 

[DaveHarries]

Nice little side thought. With the impending demise of buses from Exeter to Axminster I wondered how long the route had existed. A website called "Timetable World" has two Devon General timetable books on its website of which the oldest is dated July 1951 and this has a Service 4 from Exeter to Axminster. Exeter to Ottery St. Mary on the same line as the present route, albeit without Cranbrook being mentioned, but Service 4 operating via. Dalwood which it does not do at present. Most journeys terminated at Ottery St. Mary (Broad Street) though back then with no arrivals from Exeter into Honiton and Axminster until the 1105 departure from Exeter.

Timetable World

timetableworld.com

By the time of the other timetable book in TTW's archive, Service 4 still existed but some journeys from Axminster and Honiton ran as Service 47. Same route as 1951 (I think) including the Dalwood section but with fewer journeys terminating at Ottery St. Mary.

Timetable World

timetableworld.com

So the loss of the Cranbrook to Axminster section will bring at least 71 years of history to an end.

Dave

 

[150249]

Who knows. Bude has 4 routes serving it (6, 6A, 85 and, albeit once each way per day, 319) so Bude is not completely useless although I can't help wondering in passing if more frequent running from Bude to Barnstaple has ever been tried. The 6 & 6A could loose out a bit to GWR's Okehampton service (40 minutes trip to Exeter Central on the train but around 20 minutes slower on the bus) although the 6 & 6A provide links that the trains do not thanks to the fact that they cover Launceston and Bude and also serve places such as Whiddon Down, Tedburn St. Mary and Pathfinder Village which have no train service at all.

As for the 4/4A between Cranbrook and Axminster via. Ottery St. Mary I wonder if another operator (Dartline Coaches or Hatch Green Coaches) might attempt to cover that.



Although this is correct a registration turned up on the VOSA Bus Registrations Search on 27th June for changes to Service B which, it seems, will become Services B1 & B2: the route on the registration is given as "Pinhoe and Science Park to Exminster, Dawlish and Teignmouth via. Exeter High Street" which, along with the changes to the Red P&R, suggests replacement of the K but not as a single route. As for the 5A/5B/5C routes registrations - but not cancellations - also turned up for these on 27th June with no changes to the route as far as can be seen so it looks as if these will be staying put.

Dave

If the 2B stays, this will confuse some passengers? No? We will have a B2 and a 2B

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Nice little side thought. With the impending demise of buses from Exeter to Axminster I wondered how long the route had existed. A website called "Timetable World" has two Devon General timetable books on its website of which the oldest is dated July 1951 and this has a Service 4 from Exeter to Axminster. Exeter to Ottery St. Mary on the same line as the present route, albeit without Cranbrook being mentioned, but Service 4 operating via. Dalwood which it does not do at present. Most journeys terminated at Ottery St. Mary (Broad Street) though back then with no arrivals from Exeter into Honiton and Axminster until the 1105 departure from Exeter.

Timetable World

timetableworld.com

By the time of the other timetable book in TTW's archive, Service 4 still existed but some journeys from Axminster and Honiton ran as Service 47. Same route as 1951 (I think) including the Dalwood section but with fewer journeys terminating at Ottery St. Mary.

Timetable World

timetableworld.com

So the loss of the Cranbrook to Axminster section will bring at least 71 years of history to an end.

Dave

The service was the 4 but in later days, it was the 380 to Axminster. Only in recent years was there the wish to return to “traditional” numbers.

In fact, in the early 1990s, it was the commercial Devon General service 60/60A to Ottery and about 5 return journeys on the 380 superimposed and operated by Holliday’s Red Bus Services; the 380s were tendered then by Devon CC as DG didn’t do supported work.

So the Ottery to Axminster link has had to be supported in the past.

 

[LAIRA]

The service was the 4 but in later days, it was the 380 to Axminster. Only in recent years was there the wish to return to “traditional” numbers.

In fact, in the early 1990s, it was the commercial Devon General service 60/60A to Ottery and about 5 return journeys on the 380 superimposed and operated by Holliday’s Red Bus Services; the 380s were tendered then by Devon CC as DG didn’t do supported work.

So the Ottery to Axminster link has had to be supported in the past.

Service 47 would have been the through service to Weymouth joint with Southern National.

 

[83G/84D]

If the 2B stays, this will confuse some passengers? No? We will have a B2 and a 2B

That is the question!

 

[M803UYA]

The service was the 4 but in later days, it was the 380 to Axminster. Only in recent years was there the wish to return to “traditional” numbers.

In fact, in the early 1990s, it was the commercial Devon General service 60/60A to Ottery and about 5 return journeys on the 380 superimposed and operated by Holliday’s Red Bus Services; the 380s were tendered then by Devon CC as DG didn’t do supported work.

So the Ottery to Axminster link has had to be supported in the past.

I guess the other angle is how much revenue is abstracted by the faster parallel rail service? Evidently those who'd use the bus service are people who'd be using passes, so there'd need to be some form of provision for those customers - which would be for Devon County Council to fund. They've always been one of the more enlightened councils when it comes to supporting bus services.

 

[GusB]

That is the question!

It was only a matter of time...

I'll fetch your coat for you

 

[DaveHarries]

If the 2B stays, this will confuse some passengers? No? We will have a B2 and a 2B

Indeed but 2B will probably get dropped. We shall have 2B patient and wait to find out....

Dave

 

[150249]

Indeed but 2B will probably get dropped. We shall have 2B patient and wait to find out....

Dave

There was no need!

I can see it being dropped as there are easier and quicker ways to Dawlish.

 

[PTR 444]

9A Terminates at Seaton not Lyme Regis and on Sunday hourly to Seaton instead of hourly to Sidford only plus a couple of extensions.

Does this change add Dorset to the short list of counties in England not to have any Stagecoach presence at all?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I guess the other angle is how much revenue is abstracted by the faster parallel rail service? Evidently those who'd use the bus service are people who'd be using passes, so there'd need to be some form of provision for those customers - which would be for Devon County Council to fund. They've always been one of the more enlightened councils when it comes to supporting bus services.

Interesting point - the train service was always a bit haphazard because of the passing loops? Once that was sorted (c.15 years ago) and a clockface hourly service instituted, I wonder if the train took a bit off the bus?

The loss of the 9a to Lyme is saddening but I guess it is highly seasonal. In the 1990s, I'm not certain there was much of a service and only when the X53 came along with all its funding could it be sustained. With Covid reducing patronage, it's perhaps not a shock, sad as it is.

 

[Summers510]

Interesting point - the train service was always a bit haphazard because of the passing loops? Once that was sorted (c.15 years ago) and a clockface hourly service instituted, I wonder if the train took a bit off the bus?

The loss of the 9a to Lyme is saddening but I guess it is highly seasonal. In the 1990s, I'm not certain there was much of a service and only when the X53 came along with all its funding could it be sustained. With Covid reducing patronage, it's perhaps not a shock, sad as it is.

Axe Valley Mini Travel (AVMT) has announced they are providing a replacement service for the 9A from 1st August, though no news yet on timetable

 

[RELL6L]

Axe Valley Mini Travel (AVMT) has announced they are providing a replacement service for the 9A from 1st August, though no news yet on timetable

Yes there is, service 378, it’s on BusTimes, 4/5 journeys roughly every 2 hours.

 

[Summers510]

Yes there is, service 378, it’s on BusTimes, 4/5 journeys roughly every 2 hours.

Thanks, should have checked again before posting

 

[DaveHarries]

Yes there is, service 378, it’s on BusTimes, 4/5 journeys roughly every 2 hours.

And only until 31st October at that. Clearly a seasonal route so I wonder what the score will be after that.

Dave

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

And only until 31st October at that. Clearly a seasonal route so I wonder what the score will be after that.

Dave

I'd expect that it's an emergency tender rather than a seasonal one; they can then decide in the meantime what they want to tender (or even if it's worth it)

 

[150249]

Stagecoach axes Exeter's new night bus service

The changes in Exeter, developed in consultation with Devon County Council, will be effective from July 31

www.devonlive.com

Full changes have been released

After being declared 'not fit for purpose', Exeter's failing bus service has announced major timetable changes which include a reduction in some services, new routes and the loss of a newly the city's recently launched night bus. Stagecoach says its new bus work is being implemented at the end of the month due to changes in peoples' travel patterns following the Covid-19 pandemic.

The bus service fire has come under vast criticism from dissatisfied passengers since the pandemic. Cancellations and reduced timetables have been blamed on a lack of drivers and a drop in passengers compared to pre-pandemic levels.

Exeter’s highways committee recently describing the city's bus service as 'not fit for purpose'. Devon County Council heard in April that it would only receive £14 million towards bus improvements as part of the government’s ‘bus back better’ programme – less than half the amount it originally bid for.

Today, July 4, Stagecoach has unveiled plans for what it calls a 'more sustainable bus network' to attract greater passenger numbers over the long term. The changes in Exeter, developed in consultation with Devon County Council, will be effective from July 31 and include the following:

Exeter Park & Ride services timing changes
Redesigned connections from the city centre to Exminster and Pinhoe / Science Park, affecting routes B/2B, L and K
Enhancement to services between Exeter and Cranbrook, with a redesigned service for journeys onto Honiton and Axminster, affecting routes 4/4A/4B. Changes will also take place beyond Seaton on and route 9A

• Simplified services between Tiverton / Cullompton and Exeter, affecting routes 1/1A/1C
• Exeter Night Buses will be withdrawn until the autumn with Devon County Council looking at the feasibility of an alternative solution
• Some minor changes to the location of stand departures at Exeter Bus Station
• A frequency change to Route 56 connecting the city centre to Exeter Airport

Post amended to add quote, as required by forum rules - Mod

 

[Tommy Walters]

Stagecoach axes Exeter's new night bus service

The changes in Exeter, developed in consultation with Devon County Council, will be effective from July 31

www.devonlive.com

Full changes have been released

So the 4 isn't being axed beyond Cranbrook, merely being replaced by the new 44/44A. If anything this is a slight improvement between Exeter-Cranbrook with 5bph at times (albeit up to 2 only serving the main road). It will also mean a faster service for passengers from Ottery etc.

 

[150249]

I'm assuming that the 4A and 4B have been scrapped then even though there was no mention of them.

 

[M803UYA]

The loss of the 9a to Lyme is saddening but I guess it is highly seasonal. In the 1990s, I'm not certain there was much of a service and only when the X53 came along with all its funding could it be sustained. With Covid reducing patronage, it's perhaps not a shock, sad as it is.

In some respects it's full circle - prior to X53 Axe Valley ran the 899 as a through Lyme Regis-Seaton-Sidmouth service on a commercial basis. The subsidised element was the 378 Sunday & Bank Holiday tender. The introduction of the X53 led to revenue abstraction and Devon had to subsidise the service from 2001 onwards.

This wasn't the only commercial route which suffered from the introduction of the X53. When it was rerouted away from Dorchester to serve the coast road down to Weymouth it abstracted passengers from the Wessex Bus service which ran between Abbotsbury and Weymouth taking in villages en route off the main road. On their own that wasn't sufficient to sustain the route and in 2004 they withdrew the service and focused instead on their schools contracts.

 

[Tommy Walters]

I'm assuming that the 4A and 4B have been scrapped then even though there was no mention of them.

It was mentioned: "New Service 44/44A will operate between Exeter and Honiton / Axminster under contract to Devon County Council, providing a replacement for current Service 4/4A/4B."

Essentially the 44 is the 4A renumbered, albeit running down London Road in Cranbrook (as per the current 1905 evening Axminster - Exeter journey). The 44A is then the equivalent of the full length 4, again though running down the more direct London Road route in Cranbrook.

The 4B is a funny one, since it only runs a small handful of times a day. Essentially it's the same as the full 4 route, only covering a small diversion into West Hill, and occasionally Gittisham.

Will be interesting to see the timetable on this, since there might actually be some later journeys that pass down the section I live on near Marsh Green!

 

[150249]

Can anyone speculate on what buses will be used on the 373? Optares like the 360, 44010 or 44023 or something longer?

 

[Tommy Walters]

Can anyone speculate on what buses will be used on the 373? Optares like the 360, 44010 or 44023 or something longer?

I'd imagine they'd take a Solo from Exeter, especially given the fact more of them are now in working order. No doubt it would be based at Tiverton outstation (although I don't know what the capacity of that is).

On an unrelated note, I rode on the 95 for the first time this year yesterday. Does anyone happen to know why the conversions on 19657 and 19658 have been done so differently from each other. I must admit I find 19657 to be really odd at the front upstairs, certainly if you had kiddies sat there then they would not see the view ahead!

 

[150249]

I'd imagine they'd take a Solo from Exeter, especially given the fact more of them are now in working order. No doubt it would be based at Tiverton outstation (although I don't know what the capacity of that is).

On an unrelated note, I rode on the 95 for the first time this year yesterday. Does anyone happen to know why the conversions on 19657 and 19658 have been done so differently from each other. I must admit I find 19657 to be really odd at the front upstairs, certainly if you had kiddies sat there then they would not see the view ahead!

Soon enough, one (usually 48012) will fall and the rest will follow suit. I reckon a late 1 up will be installed using a solo so that it can be stationed in Tiverton for the next day.


I'm on a Facebook group and none of them can figure out why either. I know that 19657 is branded for special events such as Exeter City's promotion open top tour but besides that I can't think of another reason other than to give Exmouth a bit of variety.