Stansted Airport station queues and railcard app not working

[DeverseSam]

It may help to know that the escalator in question at Stansted is an inclined travelator. Still not clever to pull someone's rucksack on it, especially as the floor is metal and there is a bigger risk of injury, but it isn't an escalator in the traditional sense.

The ones I have seen are escalators, perhaps the travelator is one level up?

 

[talldave]

I wonder if the rail industry should issue a statement to clarify that the organisation responsible for the railcard app has no involvement in safety critical systems such as signalling (hoping this is true) and that the abysmal example of poor specification and lack of testing that is turning paying customers into criminals is limited solely to the Railcard app.

 

[rs101]

I wonder if the rail industry should issue a statement to clarify that the organisation responsible for the railcard app has no involvement in safety critical systems such as signalling (hoping this is true) and that the abysmal example of poor specification and lack of testing that is turning paying customers into criminals is limited solely to the Railcard app.

Online payments for railcards go to Rail Delivery Group . .

 

[Starmill]

If it had been me, I'd have been tempted to simply wait, and then submit a claim for delay. Obviously this would have been difficult to settle but there are ways.

You can exchange fading tickets at a booking office.

You can try. If you have a ticket that isn't a season or wasn't bought from the company that operates the booking office (e.g. ticket sold by trainline corporate) then good luck.

 

[snowleopard]

Additionally, section 3 (1) of the Criminal Law Act 1967 gives any person a right to use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances for prevention of crime, the crime in this case being the failure to provide details when suspected of a ticketing violation.

The word "reasonable" is rather crucial here. Hence why I, a civilian, cannot use force against someone who is committing such crimes as jaywalking, parking violations, littering, or playing loud music in contravention of my local park's bye-laws.

You'll likely be able to successfully plead s3(1) if you used force against someone who was in the process of committing, say, a robbery or another violent crime, and you have a decent chance of deploying it if you used force to stop someone who was just in the process of pick-pocketing. It's not a license for members of the public (everyone who is not a constable) to use force when they witness what they believe to be a minor crime (such as a bye-laws violation).

Civilian detention powers ("citizen's arrest") under PACE apply to indictable offenses. Please don't try to do citizen's arrests on someone for a bye-law violation; false imprisonment claims can be fairly expensive for your employer.

Section 5(2) RoRA requires a request to actually give a name and address, which does not appear to have been made here (there are no implicit requests).

There's a reason detention powers for non-Constables tend to be quite tightly circumscribed. You run into Article 5 ECHR issues much too quickly otherwise. Which is also a reason why most TOCs AFAIK tell their staff to not exercise their s5(2) powers.

 

[Starmill]

There's a reason detention powers for non-Constables tend to be quite tightly circumscribed.

One could go so far as to say that the practical reality is that those who aren't acting with the authority of a police force should, if they're concerned, simply call the police, and not choose to detain a fellow citizen.

 

[All Line Rover]

On arrival back at Stansted, I managed 9 minutes between the time the captain turned off the seatbelt sign on the plane and the time I was sitting on the next train to London. I was sat near an exit on the plane and power walked through the airport, but there were no queues - at all - at border control or customs. Incredible. Surprising. Impressive!

At the rail station, I don't know if there were queues to enter. I used a lift. Good advice.

No ticket check on the train despite there being plentiful time for one.

No notable queues to exit Liverpool St station.

In summary, I have (perhaps to the surprise of some) good impressions of everything at Stansted Airport, other than the time needed to exit the station. When my main criticism about the terminal building is that there is a Costa Coffee but no Caffe Nero, they're doing well.

 

[Watershed]

On arrival back at Stansted, I managed 9 minutes between the time the captain turned off the seatbelt sign on the plane and the time I was sitting on the next train to London. I was sat near an exit on the plane and power walked through the airport, but there were no queues - at all - at border control or customs. Incredible. Surprising. Impressive!

At the rail station, I don't know if there were queues to enter. I used a lift. Good advice.

No ticket check on the train despite there being plentiful time for one.

No notable queues to exit Liverpool St station.

In summary, I have (perhaps to the surprise of some) good impressions of everything at Stansted Airport, other than the time needed to exit the station. When my main criticism about the terminal building is that there is a Costa Coffee but no Caffe Nero, they're doing well.

To be fair to Stansted, the arrival experience is nowhere near as bad as the departure experience.

The set of gates that most Ryanair flights seem to use are a long walk from the main terminal building, but I've rarely had to wait more than 5 or 10 minutes at immigration, even when it's been fairly busy. And it's then a fairly short and painless walk to the station - more than can be said for Gatwick, Luton or Heathrow.

The main problem is with the cost and frequency of the Stansted Express Stopper. If travelling on a weekend it's so expensive that you're better off buying a Greater Anglia only ticket from Cambridge. And it remains a pathetic half-hourly service for most of the week, other than at "peak" times on working days.

 

[Bluejays]

It strikes me that the operators are putting their staff in a dangerous situation. To consistently delay airport passengers(many of who will already be stressing about time) must result in a massive amount of anti social behaviour and abuse directed towards the staff.

The company must know about this and are presumably doing nothing to address it.

One very easy way this could have been resolved before it even started mind. If you've got a massive queue of stressed out punters, why the hell are you even asking for railcards. Poor call from that member of staff. Get the people through as quickly as possible so they can get on their holidays and enjoy themselves

 

[fandroid]

It strikes me that the operators are putting their staff in a dangerous situation. To consistently delay airport passengers(many of who will already be stressing about time) must result in a massive amount of anti social behaviour and abuse directed towards the staff.

The company must know about this and are presumably doing nothing to address it.

One very easy way this could have been resolved before it even started mind. If you've got a massive queue of stressed out punters, why the hell are you even asking for railcards. Poor call from that member of staff. Get the people through as quickly as possible so they can get on their holidays and enjoy themselves

Something for RMT to investigate?

 

[WestAnglian]

On arrival back at Stansted, I managed 9 minutes between the time the captain turned off the seatbelt sign on the plane and the time I was sitting on the next train to London. I was sat near an exit on the plane and power walked through the airport, but there were no queues - at all - at border control or customs. Incredible. Surprising. Impressive!

At the rail station, I don't know if there were queues to enter. I used a lift. Good advice.

No ticket check on the train despite there being plentiful time for one.

No notable queues to exit Liverpool St station.

In summary, I have (perhaps to the surprise of some) good impressions of everything at Stansted Airport, other than the time needed to exit the station. When my main criticism about the terminal building is that there is a Costa Coffee but no Caffe Nero, they're doing well.

For future reference there's a Caffe Nero just outside in the coach station.

 

[hkstudent]

It strikes me that the operators are putting their staff in a dangerous situation. To consistently delay airport passengers(many of who will already be stressing about time) must result in a massive amount of anti social behaviour and abuse directed towards the staff.

The company must know about this and are presumably doing nothing to address it.

One very easy way this could have been resolved before it even started mind. If you've got a massive queue of stressed out punters, why the hell are you even asking for railcards. Poor call from that member of staff. Get the people through as quickly as possible so they can get on their holidays and enjoy themselves

And tbf, most Stansted "Express" passengers are from London Liverpool Street or Tottenham Hale which are heavily gated. Ticket checks were already taken place there.
There's no point for doing "advance" ticket checks there to delay airport passengers.

(For those from Cross-country service, would have expected the conductors did their checks onboard already)

 

[Haywain]

And tbf, most Stansted "Express" passengers are from London Liverpool Street or Tottenham Hale which are heavily gated. Ticket checks were already taken place there.

At both of those stations it would be simple to join the train using Oyster, contactless or a Travelcard season or some other short fare that doesn't offer validity to the airport. That is why checks take place at the airport.

 

[Hadders]

It would be better customer service if the ticket checks took place on the train. I’d look to redeploy the staff checking tickets at Stansted railway station onto the trains.

 

[hkstudent]

It would be better customer service if the ticket checks took place on the train. I’d look to redeploy the staff checking tickets at Stansted railway station onto the trains.

It would be better customer service but would cost more in wages, so a rolling revenue check onboard is unlikely, in the current funding atmosphere.
So, more unhappy passengers at gatelines to airport.

Of course, really need the interference by trade unions on the exceptional high workload at stansted airport gateline.

 

[Haywain]

Of course, really need the interference by trade unions on the exceptional high workload at stansted airport gateline.

As long as their members are working in accordance with their terms and conditions, working in appropriate numbers and getting agreed breaks it's difficult to see what there could be to complain about.

 

[sk688]

At both of those stations it would be simple to join the train using Oyster, contactless or a Travelcard season or some other short fare that doesn't offer validity to the airport. That is why checks take place at the airport.

I do wonder how many people turn up at Stansted with a ticket from Elsenham or Bishop's Stortford...

 

[greyman42]

Why does Stanstead Airport seem to pop up in this section so frequently. Is it just that RPI's target it or do people try it on at this station for some reason?

 

[Watershed]

Why does Stanstead Airport seem to pop up in this section so frequently. Is it just that RPO's target it or do people try it on at this station for some reason?

It has RPIs there nearly 24/7 who seem to jump straight to issuing Penalty Fares and MG11s rather than using their discretion to sell a ticket. Lots of people wrongly - but quite understandably - think you can use Oyster or contactless to travel there; it's now the only London airport where you can't do so.

For obvious reasons, it also has a higher than average percentage of foreign travellers, who will tend to be unfamiliar with the ticketing system.

 

[The_Van]

I do wonder how many people turn up at Stansted with a ticket from Elsenham or Bishop's Stortford...

I do as I live in Stortford!

Checks are as rare as hens teeth on the Stan Express, the gates are always in operation at Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale though so anyone heading to the airport need to get through those

 

[AdamWW]

I do as I live in Stortford!

Checks are as rare as hens teeth on the Stan Express, the gates are always in operation at Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale though so anyone heading to the airport need to get through those

But as pointed about above, they can get through the gates with a cheaper ticket than one to Stanstead.

 

[The_Van]

But as pointed about above, they can get through the gates with a cheaper ticket than one to Stanstead.

That's true, it really needs on train checks but now the express is 12 car that would need some serious manpower hence presumably why they do a block at the airport instead

 

[Haywain]

It has RPIs there nearly 24/7 who seem to jump straight to issuing Penalty Fares and MG11s rather than using their discretion to sell a ticket. Lots of people wrongly - but quite understandably - think you can use Oyster or contactless to travel there; it's now the only London airport where you can't do so.

Almost all of the cases we see on this forum have nothing to do with contactless or Oyster though. They are generally for expired railcards or short faring and the treatment of these is consistent with what we see from other TOCs.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Almost all of the cases we see on this forum have nothing to do with contactless or Oyster though. They are generally for expired railcards or short faring and the treatment of these is consistent with what we see from other TOCs.

The cases seen on this forum are not necessarily representative of the wider situation out there. In particular I dare say that many people who get a penalty fare (e.g. for trying to use Oyster or contactless where it's not accepted) just pay up.

 

[fandroid]

The cases seen on this forum are not necessarily representative of the wider situation out there. In particular I dare say that many people who get a penalty fare (e.g. for trying to use Oyster or contactless where it's not accepted) just pay up.

While it's probably true that many people who get hit with a penalty fare at Stansted for using contactless/Oyster just pay up. That's also true of penalty fares in general. The only recent case we've seen involving contactless and Stansted also involved doughnutting, so it's a reasonable question to ask - why aren't we seeing more? After all we do see a fair number of complaints about being hit by the Penalty Fare trap at Leeds unpaid fares office

 

[Haywain]

While it's probably true that many people who get hit with a penalty fare at Stansted for using contactless/Oyster just pay up. That's also true of penalty fares in general. The only recent case we've seen involving contactless and Stansted also involved doughnutting, so it's a reasonable question to ask - why aren't we seeing more? After all we do see a fair number of complaints about being hit by the Penalty Fare trap at Leeds unpaid fares office

You make the same point I was considering adding. I also find it difficult to believe that Penalty Fares are being dished out in vast numbers and we're just not seeing any, when the Leeds case suggests that we would.

 

[fandroid]

Is there any FOI angle that would apply? To ask how many contactless/Oyster cases they get routinely at Stansted Airport station.

 

[Watershed]

Is there any FOI angle that would apply? To ask how many contactless/Oyster cases they get routinely at Stansted Airport station.

GA aren't subject to FoI. The DfT are, but probably wouldn't hold that sort of day-to-day operational information.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

While it's probably true that many people who get hit with a penalty fare at Stansted for using contactless/Oyster just pay up. That's also true of penalty fares in general. The only recent case we've seen involving contactless and Stansted also involved doughnutting, so it's a reasonable question to ask - why aren't we seeing more?

This guy was charged £50 + £21.90 for a simple case of using his contactless card instead of buying a ticket.
tiktok.com/@blueboy1001/video/7256256246771141889
The image description is a penalty fares printout showing £50 + £21.90

 

[BJames]

That link returns a 404 error for me. Maybe the video has been deleted?