Stops to set down/pick up only

[1B85]

What are the main reasons why trains have restrictions on setting down or picking up at a particular location?

What sort of punishment could you expect for getting on/off a train in violation of the above? Would it mean you've travelled without a valid ticket?

 

[DelW]

I think it's usually to discourage short-hop travellers from using long distance trains that are likely to be crush loaded. Many long-distance trains out of Waterloo are nominally pick-up only at Clapham Junction, so that passengers who have alternative local trains don't prevent long-distance passengers from boarding what may be the only train per hour that they can use. I think it's pretty well unenforceable on a short trip like that though, ticket checks between WAT & CLJ are very rare, and often the PIS announces "next stop Clapham Junction" as the train leaves Waterloo.

 

[Hadders]

As described above it's to prevent short distance passengers using a train that's supposed to be for longer distance passengers. A good example is at Watford Junction where Virgin services are pick up northbound and set down southbound. This is to prevent passengers using Virgin for journeys between Watford Junction and London where LNWR and LO provide a more than adequate service.

If a ticket inspection took place and the inspector took umbrage then they could charge you the full Anytime Single fare between the last station the train called at and the next calling point. In the case of Virgin this could potentially be Warrington Bank Quay.

 

[Kite159]

Also for setting down, it allows the train to depart earlier than booked if it is running early.

And for the last train of the day in some places, in case that train is replaced by a bus, nobody boarding the bus at Basingstoke for say Overton, then the bus can skip the station (etc)

 

[Failed Unit]

East coast make Newcastle, Darlington and York pick up / set down only in peak period. (set down from Edinburgh direction) guards are clear. anyone joining will be buying a single from Edinburgh- London.

 

[_toommm_]

It also helps for if the route is subject to diversion - if a stop is set down only and misses a station, it means the company have to only transport the people on the train to the missed station, but if the stop was a normal one, the TOC would have to have two sets of passengers to transport.

 

[gray1404]

Is it enforceable to charge a higher fare then actually travelled? E.g. In the Watford, Newcastle and Clapham Jcn examples.

 

[greyman42]

East coast make Newcastle, Darlington and York pick up / set down only in peak period. (set down from Edinburgh direction) guards are clear. anyone joining will be buying a single from Edinburgh- London.

Since when? Can you show me some examples.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Since when? Can you show me some examples.

They do it every year during the Festival, given the volume of traffic through to Edinburgh.

How enforceable this idea of charging to the next set down/previous pick up point is, is another issue entirely. I'd say it isn't even remotely enforceable.

 

[Failed Unit]

Since when? Can you show me some examples.

They did it this year before Christmas. The Thursday before Easter is another time it happens. People mentioned it in the past on this very forum. In fact this year the 1200 London - Inverness first set down after London was Falkirk

 

[Kite159]

0952 Aberdeen to London Kings Cross on Easter Monday (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y70304/2018/04/02/advanced) looks like it is set down only at all stations beyond Inverkeithing. Although how it will be enforced or displayed at Edinburgh [or at stations along the way such as at Darlington]. Similar the 07:55 Inverness - Edinburgh is set down only after Falkirk Grahamston

 

[Failed Unit]

0952 Aberdeen to London Kings Cross on Easter Monday (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y70304/2018/04/02/advanced) looks like it is set down only at all stations beyond Inverkeithing. Although how it will be enforced or displayed at Edinburgh [or at stations along the way such as at Darlington]. Similar the 07:55 Inverness - Edinburgh is set down only after Falkirk Grahamston

It isn’t on the monitors at all as a departure. The monitors just say this train is stop to set down only on the platform. So as far as joe public is concerned it doesnt exist. You can book seats / APs so I don’t think it will impact many. As for charging people who disobey when I have used it, fair cop. The announces are clear enough including the next train they can use.

 

[Mag_seven]

East coast make Newcastle, Darlington and York pick up / set down only in peak period. (set down from Edinburgh direction) guards are clear. anyone joining will be buying a single from Edinburgh- London.

Yet both the GBTT and the EC timetables do not show "u" or "s" signs.

 

[Failed Unit]

Yet both the GBTT and the EC timetables do not show "u" or "s" signs.

Because it is a special timetable. Only happens in peak flows. Lots of other things happen. Less trains to Leeds more Newcastle trains extended to Edinburgh.

 

[Mag_seven]

Because it is a special timetable. Only happens in peak flows. Lots of other things happen. Less trains to Leeds more Newcastle trains extended to Edinburgh.

Provided its publicised should be no issue.

 

[jopsuk]

As a principle it has been around for a long time- British Rail certainly did it. As long as it is advertised correctly (including at special times) then it is very much enforceable- I would not be surprised if people have attempted legal challenges.

 

[greyman42]

East coast make Newcastle, Darlington and York pick up / set down only in peak period. (set down from Edinburgh direction) guards are clear. anyone joining will be buying a single from Edinburgh- London.

I was thinking of a peak period as Monday to Friday, early morning / early evening.

 

[xotGD]

What is the point in making a southbound train set-down only at Newcastle? Has zero impact on the loading out of Edinburgh, and then if 50 passengers bale at Newcastle, these seats just sit empty all the way to KX.

 

[Marton]

A while ago, perhaps 20 years, I was on a Newcastle to KX early train which at tat time was set down only at Stevenage.

I remember one guard announcing at Stevenage that those joining there were required to pat a full single from york.

Now it’s only the 1930 from Edinburgh that’s set down only at Stevenage.

 

[Kite159]

What is the point in making a southbound train set-down only at Newcastle? Has zero impact on the loading out of Edinburgh, and then if 50 passengers bale at Newcastle, these seats just sit empty all the way to KX.

Would probably make more sense having those trains run non-stop from Newcastle to London, with an additional service behind to call at the intermediate stations

(I would say VTEC making those trains cheaper to encourage those Edinburgh - London travellers to use them, but when I checked pretty much everything Edinburgh - London on Easter Monday was £70.50, 50p cheaper than those super off-peak singles sold on the VTEC website)

 

[Failed Unit]

What is the point in making a southbound train set-down only at Newcastle? Has zero impact on the loading out of Edinburgh, and then if 50 passengers bale at Newcastle, these seats just sit empty all the way to KX.

That is a good question.

As kite suggests they should make the APs more expensive on the faster trains.

London to York cost more on 1100 than on 1108. Incentive to use the slower service.

It is bizarre that first stop is Inverkeithing on the 1000 and Falkirk on the 1200. Missing our their largest stations on route.

BR had a reservation compulsory system on some trains. Was it ever enforced?

 

[tsr]

The other reason is that on late night trains, any bus replacement can a) run only to the stops needed by passengers boarding at the first stop or two, and omit the others since there should be nobody waiting; and b) can run late without meaning people are able to be waiting forever at a bus stop for a bus to turn up, when in all likelihood there would be very few people wanting to use the service and it's not worth the interventions which might be needed.

 

[Hadders]

A while ago, perhaps 20 years, I was on a Newcastle to KX early train which at tat time was set down only at Stevenage.

I remember one guard announcing at Stevenage that those joining there were required to pat a full single from york.

Now it’s only the 1930 from Edinburgh that’s set down only at Stevenage.

Pick up/set down only at Stevenage was removed years ago (in GNER/NXEC days I suspect). There are now VTEC only fares from Stevenage so they're clearly after a share of the Stevenage - London fares income.

The 1930 from Edinburgh is a train that was only introduced a year or so ago (previously the latest train from Edinburgh to Stevenage was the 1830). It'll be set down only at Stevenage so that VTEC won't need to provide replacement transport in the event of disruption.

 

[Harbouring]

The pick up only at Clapham jn on trains away from Waterloo late in the evening make little sense to me. It’s not like those trains are full to bursting.

 

[30907]

Kite suggests they should make the APs more expensive on the faster trains. London to York cost more on 1100 than on 1108. Incentive to use the slower service.

It is bizarre that first stop is Inverkeithing on the 1000 and Falkirk on the 1200. Missing our their largest stations on route.

1. I thought they did - or is it just that the cheapest APs on the 1100 etc sell out quick?
2. But if advertising the Edinburgh stop will mean overcrowding with walk-up passengers, and there are plenty of alternative trains, then making sure the through passengers get a chance of boarding makes sense.

 

[bb21]

The pick up only at Clapham jn on trains away from Waterloo late in the evening make little sense to me. It’s not like those trains are full to bursting.

Consistency.

There are plenty of trains from Waterloo to Clapham Jn anyway. Hardly an inconvenience.

 

[Kite159]

They already do make advances on the faster trains more expensive. For example Edinburgh - London has 3 departures on a Sunday, 16:00, 16:20 & 16:30. All 3 arrive in London within 5 minutes of each other due to the various stopping patterns. In my experience when looking for advance tickets to head to London even when first released the stopper 16:00 is cheapest, followed by the semi-fast 16:20 then the HST @ 16:30.

My crazy idea once the new stock starts arriving is to run super-fast services (i.e. Edinburgh - Newcastle - London), with the price for those services being slightly cheaper than the stoppers to encourage London passengers to use them instead of a semi-fast to free up space.

A common mistake is people thinking the main-line services into Waterloo from Clapham are set-down only as the PIS on P7 used to say "Welcome to Clapham Junction"

 

[Tetchytyke]

1. I thought they did - or is it just that the cheapest APs on the 1100 etc sell out quick?

It depends. At Festival time, for instance, they do. But the "stopper" is the train that serves Durham, Doncaster and Peterborough, so it's not uncommon for the "fast" train to be cheaper from Newcastle.

Off-peak they're also limited by the price of the super off-peak ticket, which leads us on to:

2. But if advertising the Edinburgh stop will mean overcrowding with walk-up passengers, and there are plenty of alternative trains, then making sure the through passengers get a chance of boarding makes sense.

Precisely.

When they do put in the set-down restrictions, there is normally a relief train a few minutes behind.

 

[AM9]

A while ago, perhaps 20 years, I was on a Newcastle to KX early train which at tat time was set down only at Stevenage.

I remember one guard announcing at Stevenage that those joining there were required to pat a full single from york.

Now it’s only the 1930 from Edinburgh that’s set down only at Stevenage.

Where would that leave a passenger boarding at Stevenage with an All Line Rover?

 

[bb21]

Where would that leave a passenger boarding at Stevenage with an All Line Rover?

Byelaw prosecution!!

Seriously possibly a telling off, then nothing. What can you do?