Storm Frank: impact on West Coast and Highland Mainlines

[General Zod]

Thanks Neil. I'm booked on the 1115 BHM-GLC but will endeavour to catch the 0915. For a horrible moment I thought BHM-GLC passengers would be bustituted from PRE to GLC which would definitely mean me cancelling my plans. Really don't fancy being sat in a coach for all those hours.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well tha s a start. I do however wonder how many pax are arriving at Crewe just after Midnight having not been able to leave Edinburgh until the regular 18:52 departure time which would normally guarantee arrival at BHM before 11pm and expect to be taxid or hotel'd as a result of the late WCML train terminating there?

Yes, I don't think that is good enough. There won't be many that want such a late arrival and most will choose to travel earlier, but they could at least have put a bus on down to Brum for those who really don't have any choice.

The last train to a major city being before the end of the working day is a little poor, it has to be said, particularly if it normally is not.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The 18:52 is usually a Voyager and generally loads well esp for North West Stations but by splitting its a good value way of reaching the Midlands and faster than XC but dont know if a bus would be needed for pax that would normally go that far however certainly in my observations enough for a couple of 8 seater taxis.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Ticket acceptance has been a shambles, and the information for front line staff has been as equally confusing as that for passengers on websites.

After lots of stern emails about charging people again if they are using the wrong TOC or route, it transpires:

That TPE have asked VTWC for mutual ticket acceptance again, but VTWC have refused.

BUT, VTWC staff at Preston have been telling people with VTWC Only tickets to catch TPE services North, to avoid waiting the long gap for the next VT service North, however when TPE tries to direct passengers to VTWC services they are turned away.

Staff at Edinburgh have been telling people with VTWC tickets to the North West and the Midlands to catch VTEC services to York and catch TPE from there, but directing people with TPE tickets to the buses, saying they are not being accepted via the ECML.

That Route specific tickets such as Via Carlisle are officially subject to the same restrictions as Advance or TOC fares - people must travel via the route shown on their ticket.

In all cases discretion should be shown for "vulnerable" passengers.

Lots of suggestions that VT (both sides) are not playing fair...

 

[sheff1]

That TPE have asked VTWC for mutual ticket acceptance again, but VTWC have refused.

BUT, VTWC staff at Preston have been telling people with VTWC Only tickets to catch TPE services North, to avoid waiting the long gap for the next VT service North, however when TPE tries to direct passengers to VTWC services they are turned away.

Staff at Edinburgh have been telling people with VTWC tickets to the North West and the Midlands to catch VTEC services to York and catch TPE from there, but directing people with TPE tickets to the buses, saying they are not being accepted via the ECML.

Exactly what I would expect from Branson/Souter Rail.

 

[Blindtraveler]

As a fan of VTWC this last week has certainly put a dent in that. There was certainly no way I Arrived Awsom last week, more like tired, hacked off, in need or refreshments particular those of a boozy nature and generally unhappy

 

[ainsworth74]

As a fan of VTWC this last week has certainly put a dent in that. There was certainly no way I Arrived Awsom last week, more like tired, hacked off, in need or refreshments particular those of a boozy nature and generally unhappy

Good! Good! Join the anti-Virgin alliance that I've been party to for many a year now



But seriously it does appear to be increasingly shambolic with buses and shuttles missing connecting services (or sometimes not even timed to connect!) and very very unclear ticket acceptance (for staff and passengers) on other TOCs.

 

[thealexweb]

I for one refuse to get a bus again. Next time i go through this disruption and ticket acceptance has not been worked out it can become Transport Focus / my MP's problem.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Transport focus seamed rather uninterested when I mentioned the general chaos to them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh and Ainsworth, Im not paying my subs to your Anti Virgin club just yet but Im certainly a tad reluctant to travel again any time soon and you may yet have me as a member.

 

[The Prisoner]

I came back on Monday with a VT 1st Advance from Edinburgh by paying a tenner for a Waverley to Glasgow single and wasn't questioned when I effectively started my journey from there with an Edinburgh - Warrington ticket. Long way round, but beats the bus and there was 1st class full service on the Voyager shuttle.

Had mentioned that the Carlisle - Glasgow shuttle should be extended to Edinburgh via Motherwell & Carstairs....the paths must be free and it wouldn't take that much longer than the bus. Would sort a shed load of problems.

Mentioned earlier in the thread that travel up was via TPE from Warrington Central to York and then VTEC from there. VTWC's twitter feed was adamant I couldn't go back that way, as acceptance was withdrawn the day we went up for VTWC advance tickets, but from this thread it appears that had I asked at Edinburgh they would have told me to go back that way.

Just going to avoid the whole thing til the viaduct is open. Travel from Chester to Penrith with my young children frequently, but the trains tend to connect into the W Mids > Scotland trains which are only going to Preston so that is kinda screwed too.

 

[ainsworth74]

Oh and Ainsworth, Im not paying my subs to your Anti Virgin club just yet but Im certainly a tad reluctant to travel again any time soon and you may yet have me as a member.

We'll count you as an associate member

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exactly what I would expect from Branson/Souter Rail.

It does seem that while I am often very critical of TPE they have been the far better party in all this.

 

[Starmill]

It's bonkers that they are not willing to refund (without admin charge for the return) the outbound and return advance tickets that are on the one booking because one half of the ticket falls outwith the affected dates that have currently been communicated.

It's difficult to argue that they are obliged to offer the refund for a return journey if it's beyond the currently expected period of closure. Personally I would because if you can't get there I don't understand how they can expect you to get back again by train.

However, others will disagree, taking a more literal view of the conditions. Were you speaking to Web Support? If so it could be worth trying to get back in touch with Customer Relations, from whom it may be easier to persuade, given the inconvenience and obvious difficulty to you, a goodwill gesture to the value of your unusable ticket by means of an e-voucher if you booked with them (or paper vouchers if not).

My views in general are of mixed disappointment. The charges of fragmentation, inwardness and looking after only one's own are too often levelled at TOCs and rebutted as an acceptable deal for passengers by so many people on here, and yet here we are with them doing very little to make the customer feel better.

It's very simple, you are supposed to be providing a service as one and a huge majority of your customers have no recognition of cross-Company issues. The rail service is either good or its poor. And at the minute, which is it?

Well tha s a start. I do however wonder how many pax are arriving at Crewe just after Midnight having not been able to leave Edinburgh until the regular 18:52 departure time which would normally guarantee arrival at BHM before 11pm and expect to be taxid or hotel'd as a result of the late WCML train terminating there?

The night I got stuck at Carlisle for over an hour because the 1949 to London didn't wait for the Voyagers from Glasgow (I arrived at Carlisle at 1954 and left at 2126) there were some passengers there for London, Nottingham, Walsall, Chester, Stafford and Birkenhead. They arrived shortly after I did by bus from Glasgow, and were all sent to Crewe (arr 2326) for a taxi to their destination!

...

That TPE have asked VTWC for mutual ticket acceptance again, but VTWC have refused.
...
Lots of suggestions that VT (both sides) are not playing fair...

At times it does slightly shock me that management are happy that effectively blame problems on other TOCs to their staff.
Although you'll note that XC were the first to pull the plug.

 

[Chrism20]

It's difficult to argue that they are obliged to offer the refund for a return journey if it's beyond the currently expected period of closure. Personally I would because if you can't get there I don't understand how they can expect you to get back again by train.

However, others will disagree, taking a more literal view of the conditions. Were you speaking to Web Support? If so it could be worth trying to get back in touch with Customer Relations, from whom it may be easier to persuade, given the inconvenience and obvious difficulty to you, a goodwill gesture to the value of your unusable ticket by means of an e-voucher if you booked with them (or paper vouchers if not).

My views in general are of mixed disappointment. The charges of fragmentation, inwardness and looking after only one's own are too often levelled at TOCs and rebutted as an acceptable deal for passengers by so many people on here, and yet here we are with them doing very little to make the customer feel better.

It's very simple, you are supposed to be providing a service as one and a huge majority of your customers have no recognition of cross-Company issues. The rail service is either good or its poor. And at the minute, which is it?

Had the return portion been purchased independently of the outbound I would completely agree that the refund charge would apply. The part that baffled me was that they were both on the one booking so common sense should have prevailed that if I wasn't going to use the outbound there wasn't a cat in hells chance of the return being used. Had they said we will refund it but it's in RTVs I'd have taken it, I do the journey at least once a week and it's always booked through them so they can see the history.

The part that left me stunned though was the refusal to switch the outbound (which they were willing to cancel anyway) from Edinburgh - Preston to Euston - Preston.

In the end I think it was a case of not having a clue what they were doing more than anything else. Also, has anyone ever made a booking online and cancelled one part of it for a refund and then collected the tickets for the rest of the journey? I was having visions of getting to the station to collect the tickets and the part that hadn't been cancelled not issuing correctly.

It was both Web Support & Customer Services I spoke with, I'll try again on Monday once an update has been provided by Network Rail. There isn't much point in calling them just now until we know what's happening. If the closure is extended it will be a simple cancelling of the tickets and I'll be able to do that online. If the 1st is still looking likely I'll need to try and find someone who can sort the problem or I accept the charge and then deal with it in writing with Customer Services which should be fun.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm utterly shocked by this. Even Ryanair are not that literal - if the outbound single ticket is cancelled, you can also refund the return in that booking even though they are single tickets. VT should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[PHILIPE]

I came back on Monday with a VT 1st Advance from Edinburgh by paying a tenner for a Waverley to Glasgow single and wasn't questioned when I effectively started my journey from there with an Edinburgh - Warrington ticket. Long way round, but beats the bus and there was 1st class full service on the Voyager shuttle.

Had mentioned that the Carlisle - Glasgow shuttle should be extended to Edinburgh via Motherwell & Carstairs....the paths must be free and it wouldn't take that much longer than the bus. Would sort a shed load of problems.

Mentioned earlier in the thread that travel up was via TPE from Warrington Central to York and then VTEC from there. VTWC's twitter feed was adamant I couldn't go back that way, as acceptance was withdrawn the day we went up for VTWC advance tickets, but from this thread it appears that had I asked at Edinburgh they would have told me to go back that way.

Just going to avoid the whole thing til the viaduct is open. Travel from Chester to Penrith with my young children frequently, but the trains tend to connect into the W Mids > Scotland trains which are only going to Preston so that is kinda screwed too.

So what would replace them on the Shuttles while they went to Edinburgh and back. Voyagers out of thin air ?

 

[The Prisoner]

So what would replace them on the Shuttles while they went to Edinburgh and back. Voyagers out of thin air ?

Why even use Voyagers? Not like they can get anywhere near full speed. Direct Rail?? Hired loco hauled stock from somewhere? Freeing the intense use of Voyagers would also have allowed the London - WM - Scotland services to at least carry on to Carlisle.

 

[PHILIPE]

Why even use Voyagers? Not like they can get anywhere near full speed. Direct Rail?? Hired loco hauled stock from somewhere? Freeing the intense use of Voyagers would also have allowed the London - WM - Scotland services to at least carry on to Carlisle.

LHCS seems to be the easy answer to everything. There is not an endless supply of coaches lying about and could DRS resource it with enough drivers ? Where would the guards with LHCS knowledge come from ?

 

[Class 170101]

Someone on this board has suggested there is a Pendolino sitting spare in Polmadie. How about using that for a Glasgow to Edinburgh shuttle?

Are there any 350s stuck up there as well?

 

[IanXC]

Someone on this board has suggested there is a Pendolino sitting spare in Polmadie. How about using that for a Glasgow to Edinburgh shuttle?

Are there any 350s stuck up there as well?

I saw this on Thursday at Glasgow. Heres the movements:

5Z11 0959 Polmadie Car M.D. to Edinburgh
5Z56 1251 Edinburgh to Glasgow Central
5Z15 1440 Glasgow Central to Edinburgh
5Z60 1652 Edinburgh to Polmadie Car M.D.

Which does look suspiciously like testing for a shuttle service...

 

[PHILIPE]

I saw this on Thursday at Glasgow. Heres the movements:

5Z11 0959 Polmadie Car M.D. to Edinburgh
5Z56 1251 Edinburgh to Glasgow Central
5Z15 1440 Glasgow Central to Edinburgh
5Z60 1652 Edinburgh to Polmadie Car M.D.

Which does look suspiciously like testing for a shuttle service...

There's nothing to be tested as they use the route already. Could be route learning.

 

[Carntyne]

There's nothing to be tested as they use the route already. Could be route learning.

It's driver training runs I'm sure. If the paths are there they might as well use them.

 

[380101]

Why even use Voyagers? Not like they can get anywhere near full speed. Direct Rail?? Hired loco hauled stock from somewhere? Freeing the intense use of Voyagers would also have allowed the London - WM - Scotland services to at least carry on to Carlisle.

Delays are getting bad as it is with the Voyagers using the GSW. Imagine the delays with using far slower loco hauled stock! Almost all of the Scotrail services are being delayed because of the Virgin services getting priority.

Also the increased freight traffic is causing problems on the Ayr - Glasgow line. There seems to be vandalism/theft issues with the container trains transiting from the GSW to the Ayr line via Mauchline. This is resulting in goods falling from the trains and causing major delays to Scotrail services. Has happened 2 days in a row this week.

 

[Bungle965]

Delays are getting bad as it is with the Voyagers using the GSW. Imagine the delays with using far slower loco hauled stock! Almost all of the Scotrail services are being delayed because of the Virgin services getting priority.

Also the increased freight traffic is causing problems on the Ayr - Glasgow line. There seems to be vandalism/theft issues with the container trains transiting from the GSW to the Ayr line via Mauchline. This is resulting in goods falling from the trains and causing major delays to Scotrail services. Has happened 2 days in a row this week.

Of course i do understand that it is not going to happen but i do think that a 68 would probably keep quite close to a voyagers timings, except of course at stations where it takes at least 3 minutes.
Sam

 

[70014IronDuke]

....
My views in general are of mixed disappointment. The charges of fragmentation, inwardness and looking after only one's own are too often levelled at TOCs and rebutted as an acceptable deal for passengers by so many people on here, and yet here we are with them doing very little to make the customer feel better.

It's very simple, you are supposed to be providing a service as one and a huge majority of your customers have no recognition of cross-Company issues. The rail service is either good or its poor. And at the minute, which is it?

It is neither. It worse than poor. It is appalling that the TOCs are not forced to cooperate, with costs shared, in the aftermath of Lamington.

The night I got stuck at Carlisle for over an hour because the 1949 to London didn't wait for the Voyagers from Glasgow (I arrived at Carlisle at 1954 and left at 2126) there were some passengers there for London, Nottingham, .....

Hey, now this is going to far. It has been decreed in RailUKForum that there are no Glasgow/Carlisle - Nottingham passengers, so you must have been mistaken on this one. It is simply impossible.

 

[Chrism20]

I'm utterly shocked by this. Even Ryanair are not that literal - if the outbound single ticket is cancelled, you can also refund the return in that booking even though they are single tickets. VT should be ashamed of themselves.

This is exactly what I thought and when phoning I thought it would be a straightforward task and would be quite easy to fix.

Instead it was an endurance test. I'm praying for good news tomorrow as I really can't be bothered driving up and down the M74/M6 every week. I never actually realised how productive I was on the train.

If there isn't good news though and the closure is prolonged the two TOCs really need to be told to get their act together and work together to sort things out.

 

[QueensCurve]

Also in terms of journey times and opportunitties disapearing one fellow passenger said the other day that it was like going back to Pre WCML Upgrade in terms of how long journeys were taking and looking at a few samples hes rite. Pitty we couldnt have a few 86s and MK2s back to complete the retroness?

86s can't run on the G&SW

 

[QueensCurve]

On a ligher note, here is a picture of a TPE Class 350 on the centre roads at Carlisle on 6/1/16.

 

[ainsworth74]

So it's Monday, any news?

 

[marks87]

March.

http://news.stv.tv/west-central/133...pairs-delayed-again-by-month-due-to-flooding/