Storm Frank: impact on West Coast and Highland Mainlines

[The Prisoner]

The comedy continues....if you look at VT's Lamington timetable on their website the last bus from Edinburgh that they offer is at 1850. This arrives in Carlisle at 2130. Four minutes AFTER their last southbound service leaves?! Ordinarily they they would a train @ 1852 to Birmingham as their last train from Edinburgh....

VT ARE running buses to Carlisle (as well as TPE), but they go at the time that their train would have run and little account is made for the extended journey times.

Incidentally that 1850 bus DOES connect with a 2135 TPE service south @ Carlisle.....I wonder if they will hold it if Virgin's bus is late?!

The VT "emergency" timetable shows no other TOC connections whatsoever.

It would be far simpler if Virgin just admitted that they don't give one about serving Edinburgh and stopped "playing" with it.

To put this into perspective if you used their timetable and left Crewe at 0907 Monday to Friday ordinarily you'd arrive in Edinburgh on a direct service at 1222. Leave on that same train now and you'll have to change at Preston (a 0951 d 1041) and Carlisle (a 1149 d 1305) to arrive at 1545.

There may well be a bus before 1305 from Carlisle, but it isn't shown in their timetable and this is info they are promoting in the public domain.

Stick it in their journey planner and it tells me to get the 1009 and change @ Wigan and Lockerbie for a TPE service & then bus to be there at 1450?!

People need correct, clear and co-operative info. Utter fail.

https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/~/media/vt/files/pdf/amended%20timetables/lamington%20viaduct%20sx%20v3.ashx?la=en

 

[Solent&Wessex]

It seems no-one has told the staff at Edinburgh about the acceptance being withdrawn, as they are still busy sending anyone with Rte Carlisle or VTWC tickets via York to catch TPE towards Manchester. There are even passengers with tickets purchased today with Rte Carlisle on them, but an office issued itinerary to travel via York. Strangely TPE Only tickets seem not to be appearing.

 

[QueensCurve]

Have they given up the leases on all their 185's?

The Manchester Airport to Edinburgh Service now runs from Manchester Victoria to Lockerbie. It is operated by 185s and reverts to the non-electrified route via Notlob.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm not saying that they should steal stock from other services: there are 185's doing Manchester to Lockerbie, could any of them be used to do Manchester - Glasgow via Dumfries?

Even if the stock were available, paths are not. To run the hourly VWC service from Carlisle to Glasgow the Glasgow to Kilmarnock stoppers have been bustituted.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Incidentally that 1850 bus DOES connect with a 2135 TPE service south @ Carlisle.....I wonder if they will hold it if Virgin's bus is late?!

I don't know about that, but when I was ag Carlisle one day last work Virgo did hold their 10:47 to Euston "a couple of minutes" for the packs rushing from the bus.

 

[najaB]

Even if the stock were available, paths are not. To run the hourly VWC service from Carlisle to Glasgow the Glasgow to Kilmarnock stoppers have been bustituted.

Oh, I know that. The suggestion was just for them to run one of the substitute services each way so that they were visibly cooperating with VT. However as has been pointed out, they don't sign the route (and possibly aren't cleared) so it is a non-starter.

 

[marks87]

185s are cleared on the G&SW.

Presumably there's drivers freed up from the bustituted Kilmarnock services. Could they not route conduct? Assuming Kilmarnock drivers sign the whole route.

 

[380101]

185s are cleared on the G&SW.

Presumably there's drivers freed up from the bustituted Kilmarnock services. Could they not route conduct? Assuming Kilmarnock drivers sign the whole route.

Would need Ayr or Dumfries drivers as we are the only Scotrail drivers that sign the whole route. Plenty of paths available between Killie-Gretna Junction as the sections are cleared fairly quickly by non stopping trains. It's the single line sections between Killie and Barrhead that arse everything up.

 

[Class 170101]

I would have throught Freightliner drivers would sign most of the routes around Glasgow including the GSW. I would be surprised if they didn't.

 

[Zoidberg]

The Manchester Airport to Edinburgh Service now runs from Manchester Victoria to Lockerbie. It is operated by 185s and reverts to the non-electrified route via Notlob.
..

I smiled

 

[Starmill]

The Manchester Airport to Edinburgh Service now runs from Manchester Victoria to Lockerbie. It is operated by 185s and reverts to the non-electrified route via Notlob.

No it doesn't. It was diverted there for 3 Sundays due to engineering work that has nothing whatsoever to do with Lamington.

185s in Scotland as a matter of course has been 1 pair diagrammed on Fridays and selected weekend services only for a long time.

Whole thing looks like a shower of s**** to me. If you're a TransPennine Manchester <> Edinbrugh (a very important market) customer who booked before the the storm your options appear to be bus or refund. If you choose the bus you aren't entitled to any compensation. If you'd like to travel now you're forced to either detour via Dumfries and Glasgow for hours on end with no compensation and no reduced fare, and paying near double for a ticket valid via Berwick-upon-Tweed (still around half an hour slower). At least Chiltern had the decency to reduce the prices of tickets when they effectively forced you onto a bus and that was for a much shorter journey.

I'm not due to travel for weeks due to other commitments but I'm a regular on this route making this very journey (Manchester to Edinburgh). My confidence is gone. The industry could scarcely be behaving in a more self-serving "look after your own" way.

 

[Greybeard33]

The Manchester Airport to Edinburgh Service now runs from Manchester Victoria to Lockerbie. It is operated by 185s and reverts to the non-electrified route via Notlob.

Last weekend, the TPE Carlisle services were diverted to Victoria via Bolton and operated by 185s, because of engineering work on the Ordsall Chord. The Lockerbie services were cut back to Preston, operated by 350s. They have both since reverted to the normal electrified route to Manchester Airport via Wigan, operated by 350s.

 

[Chrism20]

I'm not due to travel for weeks due to other commitments but I'm a regular on this route making this very journey (Manchester to Edinburgh). My confidence is gone. The industry could scarcely be behaving in a more self-serving "look after your own" way.

Like you I am also a regular but between Edinburgh & Preston. When the viaduct went I cancelled all of my pre-booked tickets for travel up to the 24th January and opted for the car.

I had an issue with cancelling a ticket for Saturday 30th and returning on the 5th with Virgin from Edinburgh to Preston. For some reason it would not let me do it online so I had to call in.

First they wanted to charge me a cancellation fee for the return due to the date in system for a return to normal service being February 1st. So I could have a full refund for the outbound but a partial refund for the return which is all on the one booking.

I am in London for a few days with work and will be returning to Edinburgh on Friday 29th, the return ticket for that one is a full open ticket so can be used in February so as I was having issues refunding the return from Preston to Edinburgh but was able to change the outbound I asked if the Edinburgh to Preston ticket could be changed to Euston to Preston as I thought I could just stay in London an extra night and travel to Preston as planned on the Saturday.

A quick check online showed that the ticket price for a first advance from Euston to Preston was 50p cheaper than what I had paid for Edinburgh to Preston so I didn't see this as a major problem.

It would appear it was and I was told that this change could not be done and then got some garbled excuse as to why.

It's bonkers that they are not willing to refund (without admin charge for the return) the outbound and return advance tickets that are on the one booking because one half of the ticket falls outwith the affected dates that have currently been communicated.

The full phone call took about forty minutes and by the time I came off the phone I was exasperated and had achieved nothing. There appears to be no common sense being applied with ticketing surrounding this disruption.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Noting the Lamington works needing to be carried out, does the hoped-for reopening date to traffic by 1st February seem realistic?

 

[Blindtraveler]

The powers that be seam pritty quiet on it all this week, nearly a week on from when they said theyd have an idea to when it would reopen

 

[PHILIPE]

Network Rail were supposed to be hosting a Meeting yesterday with all interested parties but silence seems to have emerged from it up until now.

 

[enrag2000]

Network Rail were supposed to be hosting a Meeting yesterday with all interested parties but silence seems to have emerged from it up until now.

There are rumours that another pillar on the viaduct has suffered damage and the period of closure may be extended.

 

[The Prisoner]

It seems no-one has told the staff at Edinburgh about the acceptance being withdrawn, as they are still busy sending anyone with Rte Carlisle or VTWC tickets via York to catch TPE towards Manchester. There are even passengers with tickets purchased today with Rte Carlisle on them, but an office issued itinerary to travel via York. Strangely TPE Only tickets seem not to be appearing.

I *think* I am right in saying only VT Advances are forbidden by this route - Anytime or Off-Peak tickets seem to regard Via York as a reasonable route (even if the ticket says via Carlisle). The fact that - even after reading the info on the VT website - nobody really knows is fairly damning.

I wonder if any VT or TPE advance customers have actually been charged an excess fare for actually traveling on an "acceptance withdrawn" route? I tweeted VT on Sunday as was told acceptance had been removed to travel TPE/VTEC from Edinburgh back to Warrington, which was the way I traveled up the previous Friday on an VT Advance ticket - if I were a bit braver I'd have just got on and argued the toss.

Must admit I felt a bit sheepish in 1st class on the Highland Chieftain sipping a G & T on my £36.00 VTWC 1st Advance traveling up on the Friday, knowing that I'd get a full refund because I'd booked before the disruption

 

[QueensCurve]

Last weekend, the TPE Carlisle services were diverted to Victoria via Bolton and operated by 185s, because of engineering work on the Ordsall Chord. The Lockerbie services were cut back to Preston, operated by 350s. They have both since reverted to the normal electrified route to Manchester Airport via Wigan, operated by 350s.

I stand corrected.

 

[PHILIPE]

There are rumours that another pillar on the viaduct has suffered damage and the period of closure may be extended.

No 3 Pier collapsed Monday night due rush of water and stopped job for a time. However, they managed to save it otherwise may have been looking to the construction of a new bridge. There is, according to another Forum, a site Meeting today so perhaps some further news may emerge following that.
These happenings would have no doubt cancelled Wednesdays Meeting and an announcement then.

 

[LeylandLen]

So if there are problems with pier 3 , not being 100% reliable, surely any fix can only be temporary meaning that a better job can be done with better weather in summer. Its very cold in that area with some snow so that , with ice can only be adding to the problems. I dont envy anyone working outside trying to repair the viaduct in the cold !

Incidentally ,us the 'customers' , Virgin Trains , TPE , can not be blamed for the problems so all tickets should be valid, including advance, unless any obvious case of fraud/evasion , with TPE tickets valid on the Virgin Carlisle - Glasgow rail shuttle.Let the TOCs sort out compensation with Network Rail if we ever get back to normal !!

 

[PHILIPE]

Following the site Meeting today, plans are to be drawn up over the weekend and an announcement made on Monday.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Excuse my Negativitty but this really doesnt sound good.

 

[najaB]

Excuse my Negativitty but this really doesnt sound good.

No need to excuse anything. I tried to post when I read it earlier and I think it may have broken the profanity filter!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Excuse my Negativitty but this really doesnt sound good.

I'm afraid I'm going to add some more negativity - in the new timetables now on the VT site, the MKC stop has been cut from an early Sunday train so you now can't leave MKC to past Crewe before 1000, and arrival in Edinburgh is not possible before 17something.

Edit: it turns out it maybe hasn't, the timetable on the VT site is just wrong; the train is missing from it entirely (the 0932ish from MKC) but is still in the journey planner.

Edit: Unacceptable either way!

Indeed, I wasn't going to claim Delay Repay from last week as the whole thing isn't really their fault, but given this I now feel totally justified in giving them a clout by doing so and thus have done so.

Just like the issues with being stuck at Preston the other week - there was only a claim because of the sheer ineptitude of how it was handled. I usually don't claim if it clearly wasn't the railway's fault.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Your not the only one, I've written a lengthy letter to Customer Relations about disruption handling both with rerouting and acceptance and the way my Wife who has a guide dog was treated last week.
The entire thing with acceptance of advances on alternative routes hasnt been handled brilliantly and whilst sympathetic to why WCML APs from both opperaters arnt allowed to use the ECML (i.e overcrouding) the constantly changing info on what could and couldnt be done has really put my back up.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also in terms of journey times and opportunitties disapearing one fellow passenger said the other day that it was like going back to Pre WCML Upgrade in terms of how long journeys were taking and looking at a few samples hes rite. Pitty we couldnt have a few 86s and MK2s back to complete the retroness?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Your not the only one, I've written a lengthy letter to Customer Relations about disruption handling both with rerouting and acceptance and the way my Wife who has a guide dog was treated last week.
The entire thing with acceptance of advances on alternative routes hasnt been handled brilliantly and whilst sympathetic to why WCML APs from both opperaters arnt allowed to use the ECML (i.e overcrouding) the constantly changing info on what could and couldnt be done has really put my back up.

Quite. It would have been more sensible to agree acceptance for a specified time period and state this, and then clearly state that passengers wishing to travel after that date must check back - but also to give more than half a day's notice.

I wrote them some detail on the issues at Preston (not to mention the additional £50 they owe me) and as yet they have not read it.

Pitty we couldnt have a few 86s and MK2s back to complete the retroness?

At least they could then be hauled via Kilmarnock. FWIW, I observed last night that they were at least holding the connections when delayed.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Well tha s a start. I do however wonder how many pax are arriving at Crewe just after Midnight having not been able to leave Edinburgh until the regular 18:52 departure time which would normally guarantee arrival at BHM before 11pm and expect to be taxid or hotel'd as a result of the late WCML train terminating there?

 

[LeylandLen]

Following the site Meeting today, plans are to be drawn up over the weekend and an announcement made on Monday.

If it was 'good' news they would obviously announce it today ,before the weekend, if only an outline ? Therefore we must assume its bad news with a longer closer of WCML ?
r

 

[berneyarms]

If it was 'good' news they would obviously announce it today ,before the weekend, if only an outline ? Therefore we must assume its bad news with a longer closer of WCML ?
r

Au contraire, in PR land bad news is always best announced on a Friday afternoon, and good news earlier in the week.

 

[General Zod]

For those with Advances from Birmingham New St (BHM) to Glasgow (GLC) for tomorrow I take it that the AP will be valid on all three legs (trains) of the staggered journey i.e.
Birmingham-Preston (PRE) , Preston-Carlisle (CAR) and CAR-GLC. There are no direct trains from BHM-CAR and we will have to wait for the fast London Euston-CAR train at PRE.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For those with Advances from Birmingham New St (BHM) to Glasgow (GLC) for tomorrow I take it that the AP will be valid on all three legs (trains) of the staggered journey i.e.
Birmingham-Preston (PRE) , Preston-Carlisle (CAR) and CAR-GLC. There are no direct trains from BHM-CAR and we will have to wait for the fast London Euston-CAR train at PRE.

The current VT policy for Advances purchased before the disruption is, as I understand it, that if your booked train is not running due to the disruption, you may travel on any VT trains you wish that suit as long as the time is vaguely similar and the day[1] is the same.

I did that yesterday (travelled two hours earlier because arriving 40 minutes late was going to be a big issue for various reasons) and was not questioned in any way for doing so.

For Advances purchased after the disruption, the buses and revised trains are in the journey planners so they should be reserved correctly and you should I expect travel as booked, though they may be lenient anyway because it's easier to just pass all Advances than spend ages looking at them.

[1] I can see them allowing the day earlier if the journey would be made useless by the late arrival, but you'd have to ask specifically for that.