Sundays - back to the traditional?

[Iskra]

Working at weekends should be a personal choice, this does not apply to most shop workers and various public services industries. It’s sign up to weekend work in your contract or no job.

That is a personal choice

 

[Bletchleyite]

Working at weekends should be a personal choice, this does not apply to most shop workers and various public services industries. It’s sign up to weekend work in your contract or no job.

There is a choice. If not working weekends is important to you, choose a job/career where you don't normally have to work weekends, such as most office work.

 

[AlistairCowell]

If you think large shops being restricted to 6 hours on a Sunday in England and Wales is bad enough, Northern Ireland has a very strict Sunday Trading Hours. All large stores have a more limited ’1pm till 6pm’ opening hours out of their hands. Elsewhere, the Western Isles have virtually no commercial activity.

Sometimes you just got to respect Sunday and wait until the following day if you want to buy something.
To be fair I’m not a fan of Sunday night.

 

[cygnus44]

There is a choice. If not working weekends is important to you, choose a job/career where you don't normally have to work weekends, such as most office work.

Some of us have to take what ever job we can get and can not pick and choose.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If you think large shops being restricted to 6 hours on a Sunday in England and Wales is bad enough, Northern Ireland has a very strict Sunday Trading Hours. All large stores have a more limited ’1pm till 6pm’ opening hours out of their hands. Elsewhere, the Western Isles have virtually no commercial activity.

Sometimes you just got to respect Sunday and wait until the following day if you want to buy something.
To be fair I’m not a fan of Sunday night.

1pm to 6pm would be much more useful than the 10am to 4pm we get in England. Some stores used to do 11am to 5pm instead, which was useful if you worked in retail. For some reason ten 'til four became the de-facto standard.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some of us have to take what ever job we can get and can not pick and choose.

Sometimes you do at shortish notice, but everyone has the option to make changes to their life to accommodate the working pattern they wish, if that desire is strong enough. There are always choices.

1pm to 6pm would be much more useful than the 10am to 4pm we get in England. Some stores used to do 11am to 5pm instead, which was useful if you worked in retail. For some reason ten 'til four became the de-facto standard.

I would say early for supermarkets, maybe even 9-3. That way you get the chore out of the way and can use the day for other things. 12-6 might make more sense for "leisure" type retail like clothing. Or as I said just bin it, Scotland is fine without, most shops choose to keep shorter hours there on Sunday anyway (though large supermarkets are 24/7).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I would say early for supermarkets, maybe even 9-3. That way you get the chore out of the way and can use the day for other things. 12-6 might make more sense for "leisure" type retail like clothing. Or as I said just bin it, Scotland is fine without, most shops choose to keep shorter hours there on Sunday anyway (though large supermarkets are 24/7).

A 9am start would be awful- what about those shop workers who rely on public transport to get to their job at the supermarket? On Sundays many buses don't start until 9am in a lot of towns.
In any case my point was that most supermarkets have the same opening hours on Sundays now- which is no good for those that work in retail on Sundays. If you are working at PC World, you can't even shop after your shift because the supermarkets open the same hours you work. If there are two supermarkets in a town, ideally the management of each should agree to stagger their opening and closing times so that their own staff (and those that work at other retailers) at least have an option to shop before or after their shift.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A 9am start would be awful- what about those shop workers who rely on public transport to get to their job at the supermarket? On Sundays many buses don't start until 9am in a lot of towns.

True, though people find a way to deal with such things, they might walk, cycle or have an agreed taxi or car share with other staff. And of course if there's more demand for buses then buses run.

In any case my point was that most supermarkets have the same opening hours on Sundays now- which is no good for those that work in retail on Sundays. If you are working at PC World, you can't even shop after your shift because the supermarkets open the same hours you work. If there are two supermarkets in a town, ideally the management of each should agree to stagger their opening and closing times so that their own staff (and those that work at other retailers) at least have an option to shop before or after their shift.

Unless you're cramming in all the overtime you can, there are other days on which to shop. If I worked shifts involving Sundays but had a weekday rest day I'd be shopping then when it's quiet. Shopping on Saturdays and Sundays is grim.

Additionally there are smaller shops, e.g. Tesco Express and independents, if you just need bread or milk urgently.

Similarly there might be an opportunity to shop in the store where you work during your break, or to collect a click and collect order.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

True, though people find a way to deal with such things, they might walk, cycle or have an agreed taxi or car share with other staff. And of course if there's more demand for buses then buses run.



Unless you're cramming in all the overtime you can, there are other days on which to shop. If I worked shifts involving Sundays but had a weekday rest day I'd be shopping then when it's quiet. Shopping on Saturdays and Sundays is grim.

Additionally there are smaller shops, e.g. Tesco Express and independents, if you just need bread or milk urgently.

Similarly there might be an opportunity to shop in the store where you work during your break, or to collect a click and collect order.

Cycling isn't an option for everyone, and whilst it might be pleasant in June it is less so in November. It certainly isn't a substitute for actual public transport. Especially in hillier towns. Even if you manage it, you'll get chewed out by your manager for turning up dripping with either sweat or rain.

My point is that I'd rather have the flexibility. Sometimes you just need to get a few bits on the Sunday, but if you work in retail that isn't an option. Why should a worker have to sacrifice their (very short, on a Sunday) lunch break?

If the six hour maximum stays in place, at least stagger the openings of different shops so that your staff have the option.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sometimes you just need to get a few bits on the Sunday, but if you work in retail that isn't an option.

Well, that's your decision when you decide to work in retail! There are only 6 other shopping days, shop on one of those.

Why should a worker have to sacrifice their (very short, on a Sunday) lunch break?

Why shouldn't they?

If the six hour maximum stays in place, at least stagger the openings of different shops so that your staff have the option.

Shops should open when their customers want them to open (combined with when the management find it commercially expedient to do so, and observing any legal requirements). That is their purpose.

Shops that open when the staff feel like don't do well. That's one key reason why supermarkets have trounced small businesses like bakers, butchers etc. Sure, the price is relevant, but the long opening times are much more so.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Shops should open when their customers want them to open (combined with when the management find it commercially expedient to do so, and observing any legal requirements). That is their purpose.

Shops that open when the staff feel like don't do well. That's one key reason why supermarkets have trounced small businesses like bakers, butchers etc. Sure, the price is relevant, but the long opening times are much more so.

If you go in a supermarket at opening time on a Sunday, it'll be dead. If you go in at 15:45, it'll be absolutely heaving and chaotic. That at least suggests that it might be worth some branches experimenting with opening and closing an hour later.

Anyway, the villain in the piece is clearly the outdated and arbitrary six hour limit.

Why shouldn't they?

Have you tried shopping while wearing the uniform of the shop? Everything takes ages because people keep hassling you with inane questions about eggs or something... but you have to help them because you "represent the brand" (cringe) even though you aren't being paid and are just trying to manage your life as best you can. Then there are those of us with medical conditions that mean skipping a meal isn't a sensible option, especially if you're working. "Work somewhere else then" or words to that effect is not a solution and just smacks of privilege.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anyway, the villain in the piece is clearly the outdated and arbitrary six hour limit.

I certainly agree that Sunday shopping restrictions should be abolished completely. Scotland doesn't have it and there doesn't seem to be mass uproar there, and Scotland is generally, rurally at least, a bit more religious than England. Let businesses, and their customers, decide when they wish to be open/when they wish to shop. (I can't see full-day Sunday being that popular so I don't think we'd end up with Sunday the same as Saturday - too many people go out on Saturday evenings and so don't want to be getting up early to shop!)

You do seem to get a bit of variance anyway, e.g. some doing 10-4 and some doing 10:30-4:30, and most clothes and electrical stores doing 11-5. And increasingly there's "half an hour browsing time" i.e. the doors being open at 9:30am and the tills at 10am, so in practice you can walk in when the doors open and walk out at 10:02 or so.

Have you tried shopping while wearing the uniform of the shop? Everything takes ages because people keep hassling you with inane questions about eggs or something... but you have to help them because you "represent the brand" (cringe) even though you aren't being paid and are just trying to manage your life as best you can.

Stick a coat or jumper over the top so it isn't visible. Easy. You then just look like every other shirt-and-trousers-wearing officer worker in the place.

(If any supermarkets actually ban staff from doing that when on their break they need a firm whack)

Then there are those of us with medical conditions that mean skipping a meal isn't a sensible option, especially if you're working. "Work somewhere else then" or words to that effect is not a solution and just smacks of privilege.

Or shop at a different time like most people have to do. Most London-commuter office workers for instance can't realistically supermarket shop Monday-Friday. It is not essential to supermarket shop on a Sunday - crikey, it wasn't that long ago when you couldn't at all bar at the corner shop which were universally far worse than they are now - Tesco Express etc really massively changed the viability of local top-up shopping. You've only got, in many places, any time you like between typically about 0600 on Monday to 2200 on Saturday, including 3am if you particularly want.

"Work somewhere else then" IS a solution. The choices it involves may be unpalatable, but there are always choices. If it is important to you not to work on Sundays, find a job where there isn't Sunday work. One reason I don't work on the railway (which I otherwise quite fancy) is that I don't want to work shifts because my leisure time preferences don't fit the idea. My Dad by contrast (who worked his latter days in bank telephone customer service) actually liked working shifts as they allowed e.g. midweek shopping when it was quieter, and my Mum (who did a similar job) didn't have compulsory weekends but very often volunteered.

 

[birchesgreen]

Have you tried shopping while wearing the uniform of the shop? Everything takes ages because people keep hassling you with inane questions about eggs or something... but you have to help them because you "represent the brand" (cringe) even though you aren't being paid and are just trying to manage your life as best you can.

Yes my wife does every friday when we do our weekly shop before her shift, no one has ever asked her anything. Maybe its because i am nearby and look scary.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Yes my wife does every friday when we do our weekly shop before her shift, no one has ever asked her anything. Maybe its because i am nearby and look scary.

That might be it... the curse of a non-threatening demeanour strikes again!

 

[Strat-tastic]

How about we bring back half day closing on Wednesdays?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

How about we bring back half day closing on Wednesdays?

It never went away in some places!

 

[Bald Rick]

1pm to 6pm would be much more useful than the 10am to 4pm we get in England. Some stores used to do 11am to 5pm instead, which was useful if you worked in retail. For some reason ten 'til four became the de-facto standard.

plenty of shops round here open 11-1700, and in London many on 12-1800.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

1pm to 6pm would be much more useful than the 10am to 4pm we get in England. Some stores used to do 11am to 5pm instead, which was useful if you worked in retail. For some reason ten 'til four became the de-facto standard.

10 am - 4 pm does, I suppose, co-incide with daylight hours during the late autumn / winter months.

 

[py_megapixel]

10 am - 4 pm does, I suppose, co-incide with daylight hours during the late autumn / winter months.

Perfect for people who want to spend daylight hours under artificial light then!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Perfect for people who want to spend daylight hours under artificial light then!

Indeed. Certainly, if I'm walking to/from the shops on a late Autumn / Winter's Sunday, I much prefer to do so during the daylight. No doubt there'll be a more rational explanation as to why up to six hours between and after 10.00 a.m. and up to 6.00 p.m. was chosen when the 1994 Sunday Trading Act was being drafted.

 

[JohnRegular]

This has been an extremely interesting thread to peruse- I must admit I rarely delve into the General Discussion section of the forum but sometimes these discussions are worth a read.

I actually think there is some merit to this idea. I think OP is probably right in saying that as a society overall, we would probably be better off taking more time to rest, to enjoy nature, and to become closer both with our local communities and our sprituality (in whatever form that may take). We are luminous beings, many faces of the same consciousness, and maybe having Sundays off gives us more time to reflect on our true nature and better connect with ourselves and to each other. Maybe that could have significant postive outcomes for our societal and individual wellbeing.

Maybe. Just maybe.

But it's a very big maybe that is entirely impossible to justify. What guarantee, or even likelihood is there, that such a change would encourage people to pursue their spiritual side, and not spend more time engaging in less savoury activities instead? Anyone who wishes to can attend the place of worship of their choice any time it is open, or meditate or pray on their own if they wish at any time that is convenient, and I don't imagine that anyone not currently taking up these activites will start doing so because they can't go to the pub or Sports Direct or the modern day cathedral that is the supermarket. Maybe they will, but is that a justification for restricting what everyone else can do on Sunday? If there is 'demand' (or rather lack of demand) for services to be closed, or open shorter hours on Sundays, then one might imagine market forces will see to that being the case (as it is in Scotland to some extent).

What I can't get behind is the rooting of this idea in the Christian faith. I'm not interested in the 'religion good' vs 'religion bad' arguments. The UK might be considered a 'Christian country' depending on how you want to define that, but above that (in my opinion) the modern UK is a country of religious freedom. You can perhaps argue that keeping existing Sunday restrictions can be justified for historical religious reasons, but the idea that new ones should be imposed because the UK is a 'Christian country' is ludicrious. You're talking about imposing new Christian restrictions on everyone, and justifying that by saying that people can use that time as they wish is backwards and contradictory thinking; not to mention the government has no business doing any such thing.

I suspect that you could better achieve your goals in less religiously biased ways. Maybe more local funding for community events, I don't know.

 

[Andrew S]

Surely we can manage one day of the week where only the essential shops open? I don't feel it particularly enriches people's lives. Why not promote the reopening of local cinemas, or encourage people to visit country parks, the funfair, the beach, or National Trust sites?

Why not let people choose for themselves?

You sound like a Victorian philanthropist, telling people what is good for them.

Church music is more soothing to the ears than the hits being blasted out of the supermarket speakers...

Hahahahaha. Clutching at straws a little?

 

[Runningaround]

Some of us have to take what ever job we can get and can not pick and choose.

And the added hours needed to cover the shifts mean more jobs created.

 

[Andrew S]

1pm to 6pm would be much more useful than the 10am to 4pm we get in England. Some stores used to do 11am to 5pm instead, which was useful if you worked in retail. For some reason ten 'til four became the de-facto standard.

11-5 seems normal around here.

 

[Cowley]

I must admit that I really enjoy the calm of a Sunday as a way to relax before hitting work again on a Monday.
I’m not religious but I like the fact that it feels different to the other days of the week.

Is that also part of your thinking about this @Philip?

 

[Ashley Hill]

Yes,Sunday the day of rest irrespective of any religion. The chance to spend the day with your family or pursue your hobby. A pint in the pub and a Sunday roast. A walk along a river or an afternoon in the armchair. Or,go to Primark,Poundland or a multitude of other shopping outlets to buy things you never knew you wanted. Hobby,roast and a pint for me thanks.

 

[Cowley]

Hobby,roast and a pint for me thanks.

Now you’re talking.

 

[birchesgreen]

You do need a day thats different in the week, otherwise everything else can merge into one.

 

[Bald Rick]

I must admit that I really enjoy the calm of a Sunday as a way to relax before hitting work again on a Monday.
I’m not religious but I like the fact that it feels different to the other days of the week.

I completely agree about the need for a day of rest. But why Sunday? I know it’s a popular day for that sort of thing, but that doesn’t mean that everyone should do it then. Or be encouraged to go to Church / equivalent.

 

[najaB]

I completely agree about the need for a day of rest. But why Sunday? I know it’s a popular day for that sort of thing, but that doesn’t mean that everyone should do it then. Or be encouraged to go to Church / equivalent.

My feelings exactly. I'm all for people taking rest, and people working less in general if they can. And I am all for people practicing their religion if they want, but by the same token I am 100% opposed to the idea of the State encouraging or promoting any specific religion or religion in general.