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Super Thursday - Elections 2021

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JamesT

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Ah OK. In that case, I guess we can expect another election soon after July 2023 ;)

As it stands, the next election is scheduled for May 2024, but repealing the Fixed-Term Parliament Act is also on the agenda.



**** change of topic which really merits a different post, but the system auto-merges anyway :( ****


Back to the topic of these elections, the Wiltshire Police and Crime Commissioner election is going to be re-run after the winning Tory candidate turned out to be ineligible because of a 30-year-old drink-driving conviction. link.

I do find that a bit surprising - debarring someone because of a single conviction 30 years ago seems a bit extreme if the person has never been convicted of anything else since then. Whatever happened to the idea of people paying their penalty and then getting rehabilitated?

I think the idea was that being in charge of the police should set a higher bar than other roles. An imprisonable offence sounds like a reasonable cutoff for the seriousness to allow more minor offences to pass. Presumably he wasn’t imprisoned at the time which is why they thought it wouldn’t debar him, even though the offence carries that potential sentence.
 
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takno

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As it stands, the next election is scheduled for May 2024, but repealing the Fixed-Term Parliament Act is also on the agenda.



I think the idea was that being in charge of the police should set a higher bar than other roles. An imprisonable offence sounds like a reasonable cutoff for the seriousness to allow more minor offences to pass. Presumably he wasn’t imprisoned at the time which is why they thought it wouldn’t debar him, even though the offence carries that potential sentence.
I can see the theory, but at the same time it seems to pointlessly disbar anybody who might have experience from the other side of the fence. I appreciate that the role is entirely designed to prevent real local oversight of the police, but nakedly making the rules so that the people who might have something to add are disbarred seems a step too far
 

AlterEgo

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I don't think I'd be happy for a police officer to have a drink driving conviction, so I don't see why a Police and Crime Commissioner should be any different.
 

Snow1964

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The Wiltshire (& Swindon) PCC re-election is expected to cost £1.5m
and not surprisingly many are saying the debarred candidate should refund all expenses of other candidate, as they shouldn’t have to pay twice because he incorrectly declared he was eligible when higher standards of PCC role were clear.

As far as I can work out there are at least 2 constituencies waiting for by-elections as well
 

Ediswan

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I think the idea was that being in charge of the police should set a higher bar than other roles. An imprisonable offence sounds like a reasonable cutoff for the seriousness to allow more minor offences to pass. Presumably he wasn’t imprisoned at the time which is why they thought it wouldn’t debar him, even though the offence carries that potential sentence.
It is a peculiar test as it debars potential candidates based on the potential sentence. Normally such rules are based on the actual sentence.
 

WelshBluebird

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Back to the topic of these elections, the Wiltshire Police and Crime Commissioner election is going to be re-run after the winning Tory candidate turned out to be ineligible because of a 30-year-old drink-driving conviction. link.

I do find that a bit surprising - debarring someone because of a single conviction 30 years ago seems a bit extreme if the person has never been convicted of anything else since then. Whatever happened to the idea of people paying their penalty and then getting rehabilitated?
Harsh maybe - but that is requirement of the position. If you are applying for a position like that, surely it is on you and the organisation supporting you to make sure you are actually eligible?
Obviously it is hard to prove now because this news will have changed the search rankings, but I really do doubt that it was that hard to google what the requirements of the position were beforehand.
From what I have read, it sounds like he had even asked the local Tory party if it was ok given his prior conviction and they said yes (I wonder if CCHQ knew too).
And I also can't help but feel that the fact they waited until after the voting to say anything was intentional to force a re-election (if they had made it known beforehand, I assume he would have been pulled off the ballot paper, whereas now they get another go with a different Tory candidate).
The Wiltshire (& Swindon) PCC re-election is expected to cost £1.5m
and not surprisingly many are saying the debarred candidate should refund all expenses of other candidate, as they shouldn’t have to pay twice because he incorrectly declared he was eligible when higher standards of PCC role were clear.
Exactly this.
 

Ediswan

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And I also can't help but feel that the fact they waited until after the voting to say anything was intentional to force a re-election (if they had made it known beforehand, I assume he would have been pulled off the ballot paper, whereas now they get another go with a different Tory candidate.
Not an option apparently (quote from BBC):
Returning officer for the Wiltshire and Swindon PCC area, Terence Herbert, said: "Once a candidate's nomination paper has been accepted by the returning officer, they are formally a candidate and their name must appear on the ballot paper."
 

WelshBluebird

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Not an option apparently (quote from BBC):
Fair enough! It does make me question what happens in the more extreme cases mind you (on a grim note, say if someone passes away).

I still maintain that in this case though, it is something that just shouldn't have happened. If you google "police and crime commissioner criminal record", literally the first result is the website for a charity that work with people who have convictions where they specifically spell out that you cannot be a PCC If you have been in prison. Now as I said in my last post I accept that maybe the search rankings have changed since due to this news, but I really do doubt that the information was that hard to find.
 

Ediswan

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Fair enough! It does make me question what happens in the more extreme cases mind you (on a grim note, say if someone passes away).
If I understand correctly, if they were a party candidate, the election stops as soon as the returning officer is informed. If they were an independent, the poll continues.
 

Snow1964

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If I understand correctly, if they were a party candidate, the election stops as soon as the returning officer is informed. If they were an independent, the poll continues.

Correct, so couldn’t even have crossed name off if found out before polling day for party candidate.

But it is now being assessed by police, as this wasn’t candidate death, but a misdeclaration of eligibility. Got to be cautious whilst it is being reviewed, but clearly he has wasted lot of time and money, and apparently without a commissioner in place there is no one to sign off police budget, and no one knows what else can’t happen as this situation has no precedent.
 

Typhoon

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Harsh maybe - but that is requirement of the position. If you are applying for a position like that, surely it is on you and the organisation supporting you to make sure you are actually eligible?
Obviously it is hard to prove now because this news will have changed the search rankings, but I really do doubt that it was that hard to google what the requirements of the position were beforehand.
From what I have read, it sounds like he had even asked the local Tory party if it was ok given his prior conviction and they said yes (I wonder if CCHQ knew too).
And I also can't help but feel that the fact they waited until after the voting to say anything was intentional to force a re-election (if they had made it known beforehand, I assume he would have been pulled off the ballot paper, whereas now they get another go with a different Tory candidate).
In the thread about PhotoID, reference is made to the Electoral Commission report on Electoral Fraud. There were 71 cases of fraud relating to nomination, including one where the candidate was given a Police Caution for giving a former address. In previous years, where there is less detail, cautions are given for false information on a nomination. This case is surely similar, he was ineligible (whether we agree or not with the rule) for the position so should not have been nominated, thus by filling the form in, he is giving false information. Surely it is up to a candidate to find whether they are eligible or not, for whatever the position, whether it be by age, nationality, period of residence, financial liquidity or whatever. Ignorance is not an acceptable excuse. You are dead right, third item on a search for "eligibility to stand for police and crime commissioner" is https://www.electoralcommission.org...2/PCC Part 1 - Can you stand for election.pdf. It cannot be clearer, page 5 (and the font size is pretty big)
1.4 You cannot stand for election if on the day of your nomination
.....
III. You have ever been convicted of an imprisonable offence. This disqualification applies even if you were not actually imprisoned for that offence, or the conviction has been spent.

Of course, if it considered a crime, the people looking into it would be the police, with a new Police and Crime Commissioner. I've never liked the idea!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Labour are still on the slide in much of England, generally to the Tories' benefit, although not everywhere - they gained 4 seats in less affluent parts of Trafford at the expense of the Tories.
From what I have seen on other websites, there are actually people who are unaware that Labour already had control of Trafford Council prior to this last local election.

Obviously a case of "Leafy lanes of Cheshire" syndrome coupled to a mind-set of the 20th century....:D
 

jfollows

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From what I have seen on other websites, there are actually people who are unaware that Labour already had control of Trafford Council prior to this last local election.

Obviously a case of "Leafy lanes of Cheshire" syndrome coupled to a mind-set of the 20th century....:D
There are a lot of people living in Trafford who are unaware that they therefore live in Greater Manchester and not in Cheshire as they believe, so the thought that they might possibly live in a Labour-controlled council would simply not occur to them. Mind you, if they did live in Cheshire East they probably wouldn't believe that this was run by a Labour-Independent coalition either, I bet many of my neighbours don't.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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There are a lot of people living in Trafford who are unaware that they therefore live in Greater Manchester and not in Cheshire as they believe, so the thought that they might possibly live in a Labour-controlled council would simply not occur to them. Mind you, if they did live in Cheshire East they probably wouldn't believe that this was run by a Labour-Independent coalition either, I bet many of my neighbours don't.
People such as you describe above must have had no recollection of the time period so long ago when what is now described as Trafford came into being as one of the ten councils in Greater Manchester. It is very many years ago that Trafford was one of the ten areas of Greater Manchester that in a referendum, (that Burnham saw would not think of holding this time) that voted overwhelmingly against what at that time was "GMPTE" (now TfGM) having a wish list for a public transport "big bang" funded by a two-ring congestion charge.

Like you, in Wilmslow, I too still live outside the borders of the TfGM empire, having relocated in 2020 from the very rural border area of Prestbury and Mottram St Andrew where we had lived since 2005 (on our return from overseas on consultancy business) to our current abode on the borders of Handforth and Wilmslow.
 

Yunchy

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Hope this is the right place to post this. I'm participating in a webinar later with people from Better Buses for West Yorkshire and Volt Leeds about transport in the Leeds City Region. Now that the new Mayor has been elected, the aim of the discussion is to work out how best to put pressure on to Brabin to ensure she delivers on transport, particularly with the HS2 Leeds leg (which I see is in the news again today) and mass transit.

It'll stream live here https://www.facebook.com/voltleeds and keen to get some forumers on in the comments, as it is likely to (as usual) attract many of the anti-HS2/'waste of money'/NIMBY brigade so would be good to have some pro-transport investment support!

1620811377221.png
 

daodao

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There are a lot of people living in Trafford who are unaware that they therefore live in Greater Manchester and not in Cheshire as they believe, so the thought that they might possibly live in a Labour-controlled council would simply not occur to them. Mind you, if they did live in Cheshire East they probably wouldn't believe that this was run by a Labour-Independent coalition either, I bet many of my neighbours don't.
I am well aware that officially I live in Greater Manchester in what is now a Labour-run borough, but I have a Cheshire address with a Warrington postcode, work in Cheshire and the area where I now live in is very different from the area north of the River Mersey within the City of Manchester where I grew up. The only area of historic North Cheshire within Greater Manchester that feels like Manchester rather than Cheshire is Wythenshawe, which was incorporated into the city of Manchester before WW2, as a site for municipal housing. The ambience when driving for example along Hollyhedge and Southmoor Roads (as I occasionally do) is very different, and I am not referring to the trams.

When Greater Manchester Council was created in 1974, the logical thing would have been to create a Borough of Wythenshawe, to include South Trafford, with North Trafford (in historic Lancashire and separated from South Trafford by the River Mersey) incorporated within the City of Manchester. This was not done for political reasons, because the Tories (then in power under Heath) gerrymandered the boundaries to create the borough of Trafford which they hoped would be Tory-run (at least for most of the time). With respect to healthcare provision, the geographically logical Wythenshawe and North Cheshire Hospital Management Committee was dismembered, and it is only now with the creation of the Manchester Foundation Trust serving both Manchester and Trafford boroughs that many of the issues this created have been resolved.
 

jfollows

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The thing that these elections made me think about is the "centre ground" and a realisation that I was wrong.

Clearly the Conservatives have captured the "centre ground" and clearly it's not the same thing that I was thinking it was.

The centre ground is now fiscally liberal, socially conservative, anti-immigration, but at the end of the day represents a bloc of voters who could vote Labour in future. I don't think that Brexit is significant, it's a done deal.

But of course that's opposite to the fiscally conservative, socially liberal Conservative+Liberal coalition in 2010, and David Cameron's pushing of gay marriage wouldn't fit well today.

Dominic Cummings has said that the centre ground "DOES NOT EXIST" but he's wrong, and in that I have the agreement of Danny Finkelstein in today's Times which I'll quote below. I don't like Dominic Cummings and I don't agree with him here but I'll credit him with some ability and won't ignore him.

I can see that Labour is going after the old centre ground, Mondeo Man, the school teacher in Nuneaton, what I'd been thinking was the centre ground also. Labour isn't going to recover by appealing to the metropolitan elite well off like me, so it has to work out where the voters are who will vote for them in future, and appeal to them.

Here's Danny Finkelstein (who used to be in the SDP, used to advise David Cameron and is now in the rather empty left of the Conservative Party which I still tend to support) (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c3135770-b26c-11eb-a3e9-2089e10cf05c)

Dominic Cummings is wrong to write off the centre ground​


The PM’s former chief adviser is too dismissive of moderates and the impact on voters of what goes on in Westminster​

Daniel Finkelstein

Tuesday May 11 2021, 6.00pm, The Times

There was a wonderful cartoon of Bill Clinton after he had been in office for about a year. He’s sitting in the Oval Office and leaning back in his chair, with his feet on the desk and talking to a circle of admiring advisers. The caption has him saying: “Here’s what I’d do if were President.”

When Dominic Cummings chipped in after the Hartlepool result to tell us how politics works, it was tempting to see it in the same way. If he actually had the answers, surely he’d be doing it rather than telling us how it should be done.

But it’s not merely a degree of self-recognition that leads me to think that not an adequate response. Cummings is a shrewd observer of the political scene with an impressive record of electoral success. He has actually read the many books he cites, and if you read them too, you generally find they are very good and to the point. And most of all, his record means he has a following, so the things he says matter.

He had two observations on last week’s election results. The first was that much political commentary represents “noise not signal”, in other words it is telling you about things that are mere Westminster gossip and don’t matter. The second was that much commentary imagines there is a centre ground but it (he employed capital letters for emphasis) DOES NOT EXIST.
These points contain much that is absolutely right and of fundamental importance, but also much that is wrong and needs to be rebutted. Let’s begin with what is right.

Much of what happens in Westminster, even things that dominate the news for three weeks, does not make any difference to the outcome of elections. It involves people most voters have never heard of doing things most voters don’t care much about. Even things that temporarily grab people’s attention have often been forgotten by the time voting happens.

Those who create models to predict elections include economic growth in the six months before polling, experience of public services, broad impressions of leadership, the time an incumbent has spent in office and demographic trends. And they might wish to take account of the basic proposition being advanced by each of the major parties. Get Brexit Done, for instance.

They wouldn’t improve their prediction much by adding in public sentiment on the use of the prime minister’s press conference room that took place three years before the election. Cummings is right about this.
He is also right that talk about the centre ground is often sloppy. Voters will accept much more “left wing” economic proposals and much more “right wing” social ones than was commonly thought of as the centre ground. Liberals often confuse the centre ground with their own politics, and they are not the same thing.

So there is wisdom in the Cummings intervention. Yet I don’t think either of his points is completely right.
What happens in Westminster matters, and should matter, because we live in a parliamentary democracy. In order to counter the idea that it is irrelevant I do not need to identify a superior book to those recommended by Cummings. I merely need to observe that if what happened in Westminster were irrelevant to political outcomes, if gossip and personality clashes didn’t matter, then Cummings would still be working in Downing Street rather than leaving with his belongings in a cardboard box.

You can’t develop a theory of politics and how it works that doesn’t have any politicians in it. In order to be successful, you have to navigate not merely the big themes and trends but also human beings with their jealousies and irrationalities.

Does performing at prime minister’s questions alter the outcome of elections? Of course not. But does it help determine whether you can remain leader and get your MPs to rally behind you? Of course it does. So it’s only irrelevant to a leader who doesn’t care if they remain leader. Which isn’t very many of them.

If Cummings actually thought political drama didn’t matter at all, he wouldn’t have starred in so many episodes of it. I also don’t think that Cummings is right to assert that there is no centre ground. And I thought it a particularly odd conclusion to draw from last Thursday’s results.

Naturally you can’t just draw a simple line from left to right and identify a stable set of policies that is right in the middle. Political attitudes are much messier than that and much more contingent. Yet there is still an obvious political advantage to be gained from appearing to voters to be reasonable, moderate and proportionate and to advance propositions that are milder than core voters would desire.

Political parties attract coalitions of voters and the one with the biggest coalition wins. The Conservative Party, for instance, needs to be able to keep enough of its professional and graduate support to accompany the new voters it is attracting.

In a famous paper on the rise of “negative partisanship” Alan Abramowitz and Steven Webster demonstrate the trend in the US and elsewhere for negative views of parties to drive voting behaviour. Advancing a policy platform that enthuses your base, even if that base is quite big, will not work politically if it polarises people against you.

If the Cummings theory was completely right, Donald Trump would have won in November. His core vote was broad and loyal and alienated from the Democrats. He’d moved left on the economy and right on immigration. But Joe Biden beat him by pitching himself as more moderate and less alienating. He occupied the centre as no other Democrat could.

Voters also expect policies to work and instinctively distrust politicians who seem to be giving them everything they want. There must be a catch, they thought, when Jeremy Corbyn offered free broadband.

Last week’s elections saw a continuation of the realignment of British politics. But they also favoured incumbents who have delivered results, winning big victories. One of the most striking features of the Tory victors in the north is that they are generally practical rather than ideological. The symbol of the northern conquest, Teesside Mayor Ben Houchen, was re-elected because he gets things done and is seen as almost above politics.

People may be mildly culturally conservative but they want the government to defend their values and history, not actually initiate a culture war. They want competent government that improves life for them rather than wild briefings about who the Tories are going to “do over” next.

Cummings is right. The Tories need to achieve things for people and actually govern rather than entertain people with Westminster arguments. But he’s also wrong. In a parliamentary democracy it matters what happens in parliament. And in any sort of democracy you need the centre in order to win.

 

takno

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The thing that these elections made me think about is the "centre ground" and a realisation that I was wrong.

Clearly the Conservatives have captured the "centre ground" and clearly it's not the same thing that I was thinking it was.

The centre ground is now fiscally liberal, socially conservative, anti-immigration, but at the end of the day represents a bloc of voters who could vote Labour in future. I don't think that Brexit is significant, it's a done deal.

But of course that's opposite to the fiscally conservative, socially liberal Conservative+Liberal coalition in 2010, and David Cameron's pushing of gay marriage wouldn't fit well today.

Dominic Cummings has said that the centre ground "DOES NOT EXIST" but he's wrong, and in that I have the agreement of Danny Finkelstein in today's Times which I'll quote below. I don't like Dominic Cummings and I don't agree with him here but I'll credit him with some ability and won't ignore him.

I can see that Labour is going after the old centre ground, Mondeo Man, the school teacher in Nuneaton, what I'd been thinking was the centre ground also. Labour isn't going to recover by appealing to the metropolitan elite well off like me, so it has to work out where the voters are who will vote for them in future, and appeal to them.

Here's Danny Finkelstein (who used to be in the SDP, used to advise David Cameron and is now in the rather empty left of the Conservative Party which I still tend to support) (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c3135770-b26c-11eb-a3e9-2089e10cf05c)
There never was a single blob handily-labelled "centre-ground" - it's just shorthand for the majority of people who are able to compromise and accept a moderate-but-opposed position on some of their beliefs in return for getting something they value in another area. I think it's true that people are more inclined to view certain issues as "disqualifying", such that they won't vote for people who differ from them on that single topic, and it's probably the case that those disqualifying issues are now more often on the social axis.

I don't think it's helpful to assume that the "centre ground" has now moved to a particular quadrant on that axis which the author happens to support (or even fear). What's important is to figure out a set of positions which appeals to the party, and hasn't been obviously written to delight a small subset of people without consideration of anybody else. The key then is to keep it short, and sell it as a positive and hopeful message, emphasising the potential impact on their lives, ideally compared to how bad the current government makes them feel.

Having a thousand technical policies doesn't inspire anybody to vote for you, it just increases your chances of hitting a disqualifying issue. Simultaneously, endless technical positions on how everything the government does is illegal or morally indefensible is boring and peevish.

It's got to be a short, positive and aspirational message. Starmer isn't the inspirational leader that's going to deliver that, but he is the Kinnock that can empty the slate and clear out the issues, so the ground is cleared for an actual winner.
 

AlterEgo

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There never was a single blob handily-labelled "centre-ground" - it's just shorthand for the majority of people who are able to compromise and accept a moderate-but-opposed position on some of their beliefs in return for getting something they value in another area. I think it's true that people are more inclined to view certain issues as "disqualifying", such that they won't vote for people who differ from them on that single topic, and it's probably the case that those disqualifying issues are now more often on the social axis.

I don't think it's helpful to assume that the "centre ground" has now moved to a particular quadrant on that axis which the author happens to support (or even fear). What's important is to figure out a set of positions which appeals to the party, and hasn't been obviously written to delight a small subset of people without consideration of anybody else. The key then is to keep it short, and sell it as a positive and hopeful message, emphasising the potential impact on their lives, ideally compared to how bad the current government makes them feel.

Having a thousand technical policies doesn't inspire anybody to vote for you, it just increases your chances of hitting a disqualifying issue. Simultaneously, endless technical positions on how everything the government does is illegal or morally indefensible is boring and peevish.

It's got to be a short, positive and aspirational message. Starmer isn't the inspirational leader that's going to deliver that, but he is the Kinnock that can empty the slate and clear out the issues, so the ground is cleared for an actual winner.
Excellent post. Especially the bits in bold.
 

DynamicSpirit

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There never was a single blob handily-labelled "centre-ground" - it's just shorthand for the majority of people who are able to compromise and accept a moderate-but-opposed position on some of their beliefs in return for getting something they value in another area. I think it's true that people are more inclined to view certain issues as "disqualifying", such that they won't vote for people who differ from them on that single topic, and it's probably the case that those disqualifying issues are now more often on the social axis.

I don't think it's helpful to assume that the "centre ground" has now moved to a particular quadrant on that axis which the author happens to support (or even fear). What's important is to figure out a set of positions which appeals to the party, and hasn't been obviously written to delight a small subset of people without consideration of anybody else. The key then is to keep it short, and sell it as a positive and hopeful message, emphasising the potential impact on their lives, ideally compared to how bad the current government makes them feel.

I would consider the centre ground to be characterised by two related things, which are similar to how you describe it:
  • Recognising that there is some truth in what all sides are saying, and trying to steer a path that picks the best of all the possible solutions.
  • Treating problems pragmatically based on, what solution is going to work, rather than expecting the solution to follow a certain ideology (such as 'socialism' or 'small Government').

That's the kind of philosophy that the then Liberal-SDP Alliance unashamedly took back in the 80s and I think the LibDems took in their early years in the 1990s, before they pivoted left of Labour in the Blair years. And I would say it does definitely exist. The problem is that today there is no party that occupies that place, so people who are genuinely centrist basically have no-one representing their views that they can vote for.

Clearly the Conservatives have captured the "centre ground" and clearly it's not the same thing that I was thinking it was.

The centre ground is now fiscally liberal, socially conservative, anti-immigration, but at the end of the day represents a bloc of voters who could vote Labour in future. I don't think that Brexit is significant, it's a done deal.

I'm not sure I would say the Conservatives are in the centre ground. What they actually seem to have done is moved sharply to the left on issues of Government intervention and spending vs. free market and small Government, while remaining very much on the right on cultural issues. Maybe some commentators are kinda averaging out those positions and concluding the Conservatives are in the centre, but in reality, there's scarcely a single issue on which the Tory viewpoint is centrist or moderate: On most issues they remain on the right, and on some economic issues they are now on the left.
 

jfollows

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I'm not sure I would say the Conservatives are in the centre ground. What they actually seem to have done is moved sharply to the left on issues of Government intervention and spending vs. free market and small Government, while remaining very much on the right on cultural issues. Maybe some commentators are kinda averaging out those positions and concluding the Conservatives are in the centre, but in reality, there's scarcely a single issue on which the Tory viewpoint is centrist or moderate: On most issues they remain on the right, and on a few issues they are now on the left.
With respect, I think you mis-quote me, I said that Conservatives have captured the centre ground, not that they are in it. I agree with you and I don't think the Conservatives are in the centre ground, but many people who are are currently voting Conservative. In the main I think because the Conservatives have made promises that they're going to be unlikely to be able to fulfil, but the objective of the promises is to get the votes in the first place. Keeping them will be hard once an opposition party is able to oppose.
 

DynamicSpirit

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With respect, you mis-quote me, I said that Conservatives have captured the centre ground, not that they are in it. I agree with you and I don't think the Conservatives are in the centre ground, but many people who are are currently voting Conservative. In the main I think because the Conservatives have made promises that they're going to be unlikely to be able to fulfil, but the objective of the promises is to get the votes in the first place. Keeping them will be hard once an opposition party is able to oppose.

Ah fair enough. Apologies for the mis-quote. We're broadly in agreement then :)
 

Typhoon

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With respect, I think you mis-quote me, I said that Conservatives have captured the centre ground, not that they are in it. I agree with you and I don't think the Conservatives are in the centre ground, but many people who are are currently voting Conservative. In the main I think because the Conservatives have made promises that they're going to be unlikely to be able to fulfil, but the objective of the promises is to get the votes in the first place. Keeping them will be hard once an opposition party is able to oppose.
I think it is very much a case of being unable or unwilling to fulfill. Johnson has made promise after promise* (such as on employment legislation and protection of tenants), some of which I suspect that those on the right of the party are uneasy with. Having booted out a number of centrist MPs because they were pro-Europe, he is left with a party with a significant right leaning element which he is trying to disguise with his rhetoric (which is where your point about the centre ground kicks in). He has a difficult balancing act, especially with government finances being the way they are and, I suspect, he will put off anything controversial with 'consultations' for as long as he can.

* - I suspect if you look hard enough you will find that he has adopted just about every view on every subject under the sun at one time or another.
 

JamesT

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I think it is very much a case of being unable or unwilling to fulfill. Johnson has made promise after promise* (such as on employment legislation and protection of tenants), some of which I suspect that those on the right of the party are uneasy with. Having booted out a number of centrist MPs because they were pro-Europe, he is left with a party with a significant right leaning element which he is trying to disguise with his rhetoric (which is where your point about the centre ground kicks in). He has a difficult balancing act, especially with government finances being the way they are and, I suspect, he will put off anything controversial with 'consultations' for as long as he can.

* - I suspect if you look hard enough you will find that he has adopted just about every view on every subject under the sun at one time or another.
To counter-balance the right wing of his party, it's probable that many of the new intake from the 'Red Wall' will tilt to the left as they're likely to lose their seats if the party reverts to a hard austerity.
 

Typhoon

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To counter-balance the right wing of his party, it's probable that many of the new intake from the 'Red Wall' will tilt to the left as they're likely to lose their seats if the party reverts to a hard austerity.
I'm not certain about 'tilting to the left', they are a very mixed bunch, with membership of organisations such as the Free Market Forum (which is associated with the Institute for Economic Affairs), and campaigning against tax avoidance measures. Some are pretty outspoken. What did stand out is the number that were against climate change measures, food banks and free school meals in the holidays (the Rashford measures). It is quite possible that those in the Red Wall constituencies had felt that London-based Labour was spending too much time on issues that did not directly affect them and the hardships they were enduring, but on more general issues. Also, a significant number were not university educated (I only found one who had been to Oxbridge) and were, if you like, 'self made' and from the area. Perhaps the constituents just elected people who were just like them, who spoke to them in a way that they could understand (even if they sometimes disagreed), rather in the way that Johnson himself does. This is rather a contrast to the Cameron years when candidates were parachuted into areas they knew nothing about but happened to work as a Special Advisor, or in Central Office.
 
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Quite the story from Lancaster; The Green Party has an answer to where they would form, there 2nd Green Led Council.

Themselves (10 Greens) and 5 Eco-Socialists have taken control of Lancaster City Council; with support on the night from Morecambe Bay Independents and more remarkably the Conservatives!

They had been part of a “Progressive Coalition” since 2019 in the City, but rumour is things had got tense as time had gone by and they with others backing have seized control.
 

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takno

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Quite the story from Lancaster; The Green Party has an answer to where they would form, there 2nd Green Led Council.

Themselves (10 Greens) and 5 Eco-Socialists have taken control of Lancaster City Council; with support on the night from Morecambe Bay Independents and more remarkably the Conservatives!

They had been part of a “Progressive Coalition” since 2019 in the City, but rumour is things had got tense as time had gone by and they with others backing have seized control.
Seems like a poisoned chalice, working with the Tories, and during a period when the government is likely to force them into cutting all the services to nothing and selling everything off. Could well see the whole group wiped out next election
 

Typhoon

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Seems like a poisoned chalice, working with the Tories, and during a period when the government is likely to force them into cutting all the services to nothing and selling everything off. Could well see the whole group wiped out next election
I fear you are right, HMG will look after its own finances first. It may be a good time to be sitting on the opposition benches championing groups complaining about library closures/ reduced hours, hikes in parking fees and charges for collecting green waste, pot holes not repaired, leisure centres sold off (and new owners insisting on membership fees), green spaces being built on, etc.
 

317 forever

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The Wiltshire (& Swindon) PCC re-election is expected to cost £1.5m
and not surprisingly many are saying the debarred candidate should refund all expenses of other candidate, as they shouldn’t have to pay twice because he incorrectly declared he was eligible when higher standards of PCC role were clear.

As far as I can work out there are at least 2 constituencies waiting for by-elections as well
Yes. Chesham & Amersham on June 17th then Batley & Spen on July 1st.
 
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The Wiltshire (& Swindon) PCC re-election is expected to cost £1.5m
and not surprisingly many are saying the debarred candidate should refund all expenses of other candidate, as they shouldn’t have to pay twice because he incorrectly declared he was eligible when higher standards of PCC role were clear.

As far as I can work out there are at least 2 constituencies waiting for by-elections as well

The PCC poll will be on August 19th by the way and the other candidates are absolutely right!
 
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