Supermarkets discussion

[route101]

Carrefour used to have a number of hypermarché-style large stores in the UK from 1972 omwards; they sold them (all?) to ASDA in the 90s I believe. Some are still in existence as ASDAs.

I could be wrong but the Eastleigh ASDA is ex Carrefour.

Speaking of prices, I bought a tub of Pringles and the price scanned through less than on the label.

Used one of them corner shops you see with vapes etc to buy a few chocolates and drinks. One of items was price marked and wouldn't scan so he adds a £1 to the price. I notice but should said something but I wanted to catch my train. Certainly why I always use cash in these shops.

 

[SteveM70]

They became Gateway the late 80's and then migrated to Asda as said in the 90's. Gateway were not a good fit for the former (8?) Carrefour sites and from speaking to mgmt before Asda took over, heard was part due to Gateway not being scalable to their vast different sized store formats. Asda seemed to run better.

I worked for the logistics contractor that did Gateway’s distribution in the late 1980s / early 1990s and from memory what you say is right. Their core range just wasn’t big enough for the size of the stores, so the knee jerk reaction from the store operations and buying teams was to add more stuff to the range. When it was pointed out that all these new SKUs wouldn’t fit in the warehouse they had a bit of a panic and started getting some suppliers to deliver direct to store, but that added cost and reduced flexibility. All a bit of a nightmare really.

 

[AM9]

I could be wrong but the Eastleigh ASDA is ex Carrefour.

I think the Asda at J4 on the A3M (Purbrook Way) was built as a Carrefour store in the late '70s.

 

[Hadders]

I think the Asda at J4 on the A3M (Purbrook Way) was built as a Carrefour store in the late '70s.

It was as was the current Asda store at Oadby just outside Leicester iirc.

In the 1980s Gateway was the third largest food retailer in the UK behind Sainsbury's and Tesco with 12% of the market. Gateway was founded in Bristol and grew by a number of acquisitions over the years - names like JH Mills, Frank Dee, Fine Fare, International, Key Markets and the UK arm of Carrefour were all ultimately absorbed in one way or another.

In the late 1980s what had become Gateway Corporation was taken over by a new company called Isoceles. The deal was financed by the sale of a number of larger stores to Asda. Gateway rebranded as Somerfield in the 1990s, Kwik Save was acquired in the late 1990s and mostly sold off a few years later. What remained of Somerfield was acquired by the Co-operative Group in 2009

 

[Silver Cobra]

Another 3,000 jobs are being cut at Sainsburys over the next year, which will lead to the loss of their remaining 61 cafes, and all pizza and patisserie counters in stores.

Sainsbury's to cut 3,000 jobs by closing cafés and counters

The changes are part of a cost-cutting plan, but recent tax rises for businesses have also been a factor.

www.bbc.co.uk

Sainsbury's has announced it will cut 3,000 jobs as it shuts down its remaining cafés and closes its patisserie and pizza counters.

The supermarket says the move will "simplify the business", adding that most Sainsbury's shoppers "do not use the cafés regularly".
Sainsbury's also plans to make a 20% reduction in senior management roles, saying the business faces a "particularly challenging cost environment".
Although Sainsbury's was already in the midst of a plan to save £1bn over the next few years, the BBC understands the rise in employer's National Insurance contributions has also been a factor in this latest restructuring plan.
Sainsbury's recently reported strong Christmas trading and said it expected annual profits to surpass £1bn.
But when he unveiled the trading figures earlier this month, chief executive Simon Roberts repeated his warning about the impact of measures announced in the Budget and said there would be "tough choices".

It's sad to think we could soon reach a point where none of the 'original big four' supermarkets (I know Aldi has replaced Morrisons in the actual big four) offer fresh counter services. I believe Asda are considering closing their pizza and hot food counters (a trial has been taking place with pre-made pizzas, different to the ones in the main ready meals aisle, coming in and being sold at the pizza counters). I also recall hearing Morrisons are considering similar with their counters, but I'm not 100% sure there.

 

[dgl]

One interesting thing recently is that our local Tesco has replaced it's open fridges with doored ones to save energy. Now our local Morrisons has, in the last week or so, decided to also try and save energy, but without replacing the fridges. What they have done is put vertical see through plastic flaps on all it's open fridges, all looks a bit weird.

 

[Peter Sarf]

One interesting thing recently is that our local Tesco has replaced it's open fridges with doored ones to save energy. Now our local Morrisons has, in the last week or so, decided to also try and save energy, but without replacing the fridges. What they have done is put vertical see through plastic flaps on all it's open fridges, all looks a bit weird.

A bit like Lidl (or was it Aldi). Fridges not 1005 sealed but probably helps a lot compared to just open all the time.

 

[Harpo]

A bit like Lidl (or was it Aldi). Fridges not 1005 sealed but probably helps a lot compared to just open all the time.

I don’t get why so much fruit and veg that doesn’t need refrigeration is now in doored units at Aldi.

 

[AM9]

I don’t get why so much fruit and veg that doesn’t need refrigeration is now in doored units at Aldi.

Maybe it's older than the description 'fresh' implies.

 

[philthetube]

Another 3,000 jobs are being cut at Sainsburys over the next year, which will lead to the loss of their remaining 61 cafes, and all pizza and patisserie counters in stores.

Sainsbury's to cut 3,000 jobs by closing cafés and counters

The changes are part of a cost-cutting plan, but recent tax rises for businesses have also been a factor.

www.bbc.co.uk

It's sad to think we could soon reach a point where none of the 'original big four' supermarkets (I know Aldi has replaced Morrisons in the actual big four) offer fresh counter services. I believe Asda are considering closing their pizza and hot food counters (a trial has been taking place with pre-made pizzas, different to the ones in the main ready meals aisle, coming in and being sold at the pizza counters). I also recall hearing Morrisons are considering similar with their counters, but I'm not 100% sure there.

I cannot work out why stores like Morrisons M&S and Booths can run successful cafes, but not Sainsburys, I don't often Visit Asda but my recent experiences with the other 2 is that the biggest issue is finding a seat.

 

[takno]

I cannot work out why stores like Morrisons M&S and Booths can run successful cafes, but not Sainsburys, I don't often Visit Asda but my recent experiences with the other 2 is that the biggest issue is finding a seat.

M&S cafes are typically located in town centres, and are a good place to take a break during a relatively leisurely shopping trip. Booths more successful cafes are in places like Windermere, which is a station cafe in a tourist centre. This is a bit different from the big-box supermarket experience.

Morrisons and Asda are more like Sainsbury's in that they are running cafes in large out-of-the-way supermarkets. My feeling is that they have a clientele which is a bit poorer and more likely to regard the cafe as a treat, and have paid more attention to it over the years. The cafes tend to be fairly prominent at the front of the shop, and next to the toilets.

Sainsbury's in my experience park the cafes well out of the way to the point where most customers don't know they're there. There's no view and no atmosphere. Once you get into the cafe, they basically want to sell you a full meal which is more expensive and not as good as the ready meal you already have in your bag.

Essentially I think the cafes were set up by somebody who has never been for a cup of tea and a cake in their life.

 

[SteveM70]

Sainsbury's in my experience park the cafes well out of the way to the point where most customers don't know they're there. There's no view and no atmosphere. Once you get into the cafe, they basically want to sell you a full meal which is more expensive and not as good as the ready meal you already have in your bag.

Sainsbury's have said they're going to close the 61 remaining Sainsbury's-run store cafes. Many Sainsbury's stores already have cafes run by others.

In the press release (link to article in the Grocer below) they talk about expanding their partnership with Boparan, who many people won't have heard of but who have well known brands like Ed's Diner, Slim Chickens, Gourmet Burger Kitchen and Giraffe. If that's the direction they're headed in, it'll be interested to see how they get on, because as you say it looks and feels like having a full meal rather than a pot of tea and a cake

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/news/sainsburys-cuts-3000-jobs-as-cafes-close-for-good/700173.article#:~:text=Sainsbury's%20will%20also%20close%20it's,will%20continue%20to%20roll%20out.

 

[morrisobrien]

Carrefour used to have a number of hypermarché-style large stores in the UK from 1972 omwards; they sold them (all?) to ASDA in the 90s I believe. Some are still in existence as ASDAs.

Asda,Cribbs Causeway,Bristol, & Asda,Caerphilly, both ex. Carrefour.

 

[317 forever]

M&S cafes are typically located in town centres, and are a good place to take a break during a relatively leisurely shopping trip. Booths more successful cafes are in places like Windermere, which is a station cafe in a tourist centre. This is a bit different from the big-box supermarket experience.

Morrisons and Asda are more like Sainsbury's in that they are running cafes in large out-of-the-way supermarkets. My feeling is that they have a clientele which is a bit poorer and more likely to regard the cafe as a treat, and have paid more attention to it over the years. The cafes tend to be fairly prominent at the front of the shop, and next to the toilets.

Sainsbury's in my experience park the cafes well out of the way to the point where most customers don't know they're there. There's no view and no atmosphere. Once you get into the cafe, they basically want to sell you a full meal which is more expensive and not as good as the ready meal you already have in your bag.

Essentially I think the cafes were set up by somebody who has never been for a cup of tea and a cake in their life.

Also, I have sometimes seen products sold more expensive at a Sainsbury's cafe than in the store itself. One of their yogurts which is now £1 was £1 in the cafe, I think at Halifax, but only 65p in the store.

The cafe at Fallowfield has now become a Starbucks. I believe some though not all their other cafes have reopened in new hands too.

 

[takno]

Also, I have sometimes seen products sold more expensive at a Sainsbury's cafe than in the store itself. One of their yogurts which is now £1 was £1 in the cafe, I think at Halifax, but only 65p in the store.

The cafe at Fallowfield has now become a Starbucks. I believe some though not all their other cafes have reopened in new hands too.

I'd expect the prices to be somewhat higher in the cafe - in addition to the costs of providing a sterile joyless eating environment they also have to pay the staff to wash your spoon up, and probably charge VAT.

 

[eyebrook1961]

Sainsbury's have said they're going to close the 61 remaining Sainsbury's-run store cafes. Many Sainsbury's stores already have cafes run by others.

In the press release (link to article in the Grocer below) they talk about expanding their partnership with Boparan, who many people won't have heard of but who have well known brands like Ed's Diner, Slim Chickens, Gourmet Burger Kitchen and Giraffe. If that's the direction they're headed in, it'll be interested to see how they get on, because as you say it looks and feels like having a full meal rather than a pot of tea and a cake

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/news/sainsburys-cuts-3000-jobs-as-cafes-close-for-good/700173.article#:~:text=Sainsbury's%20will%20also%20close%20it's,will%20continue%20to%20roll%20out.

Regarding "Giraffe", didn't Tesco have them run cafes in some of their branches (York I believe was one of them)?

Mrs Eyebrook and I do like the cafe in M&S York (when we visit) but there are often too many people queueing when you've made your way up to the 4th floor . .!

 

[GatwickDepress]

Regarding "Giraffe", didn't Tesco have them run cafes in some of their branches (York I believe was one of them)?

Mrs Eyebrook and I do like the cafe in M&S York (when we visit) but there are often too many people queueing when you've made your way up to the 4th floor . .!

Tesco bought Giraffe in 2013 and sold it three years later. Part of Tesco's slightly odd 'let's just try everything and see what sticks' era.

 

[RuddA]

Also, I have sometimes seen products sold more expensive at a Sainsbury's cafe than in the store itself. One of their yogurts which is now £1 was £1 in the cafe, I think at Halifax, but only 65p in the store.

The cafe at Fallowfield has now become a Starbucks. I believe some though not all their other cafes have reopened in new hands too.

In Norwich, the Queens Road Sainsburys had its quite nice cafe which overlooked the car park entrance turned into Argos. The cafe at Pound Lane, which overlooked the delivery road, was unused for quite a while, and may still be. When I last went to the Longwater branch the cafe was still open and was quite busy.

 

[jon0844]

Sainsbury's in my experience park the cafes well out of the way to the point where most customers don't know they're there. There's no view and no atmosphere. Once you get into the cafe, they basically want to sell you a full meal which is more expensive and not as good as the ready meal you already have in your bag.

Essentially I think the cafes were set up by somebody who has never been for a cup of tea and a cake in their life.

You described the cafe in my local Sainsbury's perfectly, and it closed a year or two ago (was rumoured to become a Starbucks or something but AFAIK it's still empty. It's upstairs where I rarely go so haven't seen the state in over a year, but my guess is it's empty still.

I do recall that most of the food you could pick up was just Sainsbury's products (drinks, sandwiches, snacks) and I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't heating up their own ready meals out back for the hot food. I recall they ALWAYS took ages to make food, but the English breakfast used to be passable and pretty cheap. Not good enough to win over my local greasy spoon for the times I wanted a fry up and not to make it myself at home.

The bigger issue for us was that the tables were always a mess. Nobody took trays back, and it seemed nobody was around to collect the food or clean the tables (and chairs - often as bad or worse than the tables). I wonder if Sainsbury's and other supermarkets ever consider the full cost of running a restaurant? Ikea manages to have lots of staff to keep the tables clear, even though the food is very cheap and at times almost a loss-leader. They probably realise if you do cheap food and offer a good service (not Michelin star restaurant service, but good) then it brings people in to your store.

If you don't do it right, you may as well as close up.

 

[Peter Sarf]

You described the cafe in my local Sainsbury's perfectly, and it closed a year or two ago (was rumoured to become a Starbucks or something but AFAIK it's still empty. It's upstairs where I rarely go so haven't seen the state in over a year, but my guess is it's empty still.

I do recall that most of the food you could pick up was just Sainsbury's products (drinks, sandwiches, snacks) and I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't heating up their own ready meals out back for the hot food. I recall they ALWAYS took ages to make food, but the English breakfast used to be passable and pretty cheap. Not good enough to win over my local greasy spoon for the times I wanted a fry up and not to make it myself at home.

The bigger issue for us was that the tables were always a mess. Nobody took trays back, and it seemed nobody was around to collect the food or clean the tables (and chairs - often as bad or worse than the tables). I wonder if Sainsbury's and other supermarkets ever consider the full cost of running a restaurant? Ikea manages to have lots of staff to keep the tables clear, even though the food is very cheap and at times almost a loss-leader. They probably realise if you do cheap food and offer a good service (not Michelin star restaurant service, but good) then it brings people in to your store.

If you don't do it right, you may as well as close up.

You mention IKEA.

I agree they were good but just recently we have woken up to how lacklustre the cafe is getting.
First they stopped doing the decaf coffee and decaf tea.
The drinks machines seem to be faulty more often.
The last few meals the food has been cold and somehow boring.
IKEA have been holding their prices down very well - especially the offer of a different meal each day for £3.
We did go for the fish and chips (available every Friday) but we have now stopped.

 

[jon0844]

You mention IKEA.

I agree they were good but just recently we have woken up to how lacklustre the cafe is getting.
First they stopped doing the decaf coffee and decaf tea.
The drinks machines seem to be faulty more often.
The last few meals the food has been cold and somehow boring.
IKEA have been holding their prices down very well - especially the offer of a different meal each day for £3.
We did go for the fish and chips (available every Friday) but we have now stopped.

That's a shame. To be honest, I've not eaten in IKEA for some time simply because they now offer delivery at low (sometimes no) cost to a local locker or supermarket car park (and of course there's click and collect) so I generally order without venturing into a store now.

When the Oxford Street store opens, I think that will be the place to go and look around (I've been to the Hammersmith one of late, as I can go by public transport, and also Croydon by tram) as I hated the driving, parking and queuing. Now I no longer need to do this unless I'm desperate for something that day. The last orders I've made have been available to pick up the very next day, which is good enough for me*.

Perhaps more people will do this and the big store locations will have to adapt - and maybe less people will go there for food, or a cheap hot dog/ice cream.

* So far I've had nothing that needs returning or had to visit a store to change any part damaged.

 

[ChrisC]

From reading recent posts it is obvious that the quality of Sainsbury’s cafes varied greatly from store to store. The one most local to me which I used before it closed, in Arnold near Nottingham, was always very busy. It was in a very prominent position with large windows. The food was always very good quality for this type of supermarket cafe with the fish and chips being especially good and freshly cooked whilst you wait. During December they also used to do a very good Christmas Dinner.

The cafe never opened up again after covid. Like all Sainsbury’s stores the fresh food counters like the deli, cheese, butchers and fish have all gone, with everything now being pre packed. It will have saved Sainsbury’s some money, but is it really what all customers want? I always used to do a big shop there at least once a month but I now go to Waitrose in Newark which still retains its fresh food counters and has a cafe. If only I lived near a Booths!

 

[skyhigh]

The cafe never opened up again after covid. Like all Sainsbury’s stores the fresh food counters like the deli, cheese, butchers and fish have all gone, with everything now being pre packed. It will have saved Sainsbury’s some money, but is it really what all customers want?

They have also announced (as part of the cafe announcement) that they're closing all the in-store scratch bakeries and swapping to bake-off production which is effectively just stores defrosting frozen items produced in a central bakery.

The difference in quality is night and day. The Easter range has already been introduced in the new format and is rubbish compared to last year's offering.

The last of the store bakers are due to be made redundant by April so by then the conversion will be complete.

And no, the savings aren't being passed onto consumers with cheaper bakery products.....

 

[gg1]

They have also announced (as part of the cafe announcement) that they're closing all the in-store scratch bakeries and swapping to bake-off production which is effectively just stores defrosting frozen items produced in a central bakery.

The difference in quality is night and day. The Easter range has already been introduced in the new format and is rubbish compared to last year's offering.

The last of the store bakers are due to be made redundant by April so by then the conversion will be complete.

And no, the savings aren't being passed onto consumers with cheaper bakery products.....

That's disappointing, I'm not bothered about the cafes (can't remember the last time I went to a supermarket cafe, probably some time in the 00s), but I will miss the bakeries, as I do the deli counters.

The in store pharmacies also went a year or two ago.

 

[DelW]

I agree that Sainsbury's cafe locations were a big part of the problem. My nearest Sainsbury's used to have its cafe at the front, between the checkouts and the car park, with big windows at the front. It was quite small but was always well used, including by me at times.

Then the shop was rebuilt and extended, to accommodate a non-food area. The cafe was relocated to upstairs, although everything else was on the ground floor. The stairs and lift to it were at the far corner of the non-food area, and I think a lot of shoppers didn't even know it was there. I went up there a few times to use the toilets, and there were rarely more than a dozen customers between about twenty tables. I doubt if it will be much missed.

 

[Bald Rick]

I think the Asda at J4 on the A3M (Purbrook Way) was built as a Carrefour store in the late '70s.

It was, and it was the first supermarket I ever saw barcodes being scanned at the checkout.

 

[jon81uk]

I cannot work out why stores like Morrisons M&S and Booths can run successful cafes, but not Sainsburys, I don't often Visit Asda but my recent experiences with the other 2 is that the biggest issue is finding a seat.

Morrisons seemed to concentrate on making their cafe a strong feature in its own right, focusing on classic fry-ups and good value meals.
Wheras Sainsbury's over the last ten years seemed to just see them as something customers expect them to offer, rather than an active thing to add value. Tesco seem to very much be the same and their cafe's are run by one of the corporate canteen companies.

Also, I have sometimes seen products sold more expensive at a Sainsbury's cafe than in the store itself. One of their yogurts which is now £1 was £1 in the cafe, I think at Halifax, but only 65p in the store.

The cafe at Fallowfield has now become a Starbucks. I believe some though not all their other cafes have reopened in new hands too.

You'd need to add VAT to eat in, so 65p becomes 78p, plus the additional staff time in the cafe cleaning up after you etc. £1 is probably a little high but a cafe is a very different business to a supermarket.

My local Sainsbury's cafe is now also a Starbucks and the fire-exit door is now a regular door allowing for direct access without going through the supermarket. I'd be certain you can't get a £1 yoghurt in Starbucks.

 

[Mojo]

When I logged in to select my weekly Waitrose vouchers this week I was greeted with a popup that said that you can now select as many vouchers as you want; it’s no longer limited to two. However, the vouchers on offer, at least for me, has been decreased from six to four.

 

[AM9]

When I logged in to select my weekly Waitrose vouchers this week I was greeted with a popup that said that you can now select as many vouchers as you want; it’s no longer limited to two. However, the vouchers on offer, at least for me, has been decreased from six to four.

Yes, I noticed that this morning, - and there's three at £0.50 off and one at £1.00.

 

[DannyMich2018]

There's been a big increase in price of the cheapest own brand chocolate bars (100g) in some supermarkets in recent days Tesco now 70p, Morrison's 80p and Sainsbury's an expensive £1.10. ASDA, Aldi, Lidl most likely will follow. Previously most were about 49-55p each.