Supermarkets discussion

[Bald Rick]

Am I going daft, how do they stop shoplifting?

My guess is that the ‘AI’ bit is actually facial recognition which runs checks of who has been given permission to open the cabinet compared to stock ‘shrinkage’, and perhaps their behaviours when doing so, and then doesn’t permit the same person to open it in future.

 

[AM9]

My guess is that the ‘AI’ bit is actually facial recognition which runs checks of who has been given permission to open the cabinet compared to stock ‘shrinkage’, and perhaps their behaviours when doing so, and then doesn’t permit the same person to open it in future.

If the images are stored for an indeterminate period, would that be gdpr compliant? Were there notices to that effect?

 

[Bald Rick]

I didn’t pay that much attention to be honest!

 

[Hadders]

Just to clear up a few things.

Shrinkage across all supermarket chains has increased significantly in recent years. Lots of reasons why this is happening but much shoplifting these days is organised crime, oiften with threats of and actual violence. There is also an increase in what I'd call 'white collar crime' - people cheating self checkouts where people tend to regard it as 'cheating the system' rather than theft.

There is a limit to what security guards and retail staff can do to detain shoplifters, particularly as once detained police respnse is often very slow or non-existent. It's a dangerous activity and personal safety has to sit above anything else. It's not disimilar to stopping and detaining fare evaders on the railway - we often have threads on here asking why staff don't do more to detain evaders.

Supermarkets are always looking for cost effective ways to keep items on the shelves and making them easy for genuine customers to buy (internal industry research shows that sales go down significantly when items are locked away behind counters). The sort of things mentioned above won't stop all shoplifting, but will deter some and make it more difficult for others without making it too difficult for a genuine customer to purchase.

Things do change over time, criminals find workarounds to anything new so it's a constant game of 'cat and mouse'.

 

[Busaholic]

Just to clear up a few things.

Shrinkage across all supermarket chains has increased significantly in recent years. Lots of reasons why this is happening but much shoplifting these days is organised crime, oiften with threats of and actual violence. There is also an increase in what I'd call 'white collar crime' - people cheating self checkouts where people tend to regard it as 'cheating the system' rather than theft.

There is a limit to what security guards and retail staff can do to detain shoplifters, particularly as once detained police respnse is often very slow or non-existent. It's a dangerous activity and personal safety has to sit above anything else. It's not disimilar to stopping and detaining fare evaders on the railway - we often have threads on here asking why staff don't do more to detain evaders.

Supermarkets are always looking for cost effective ways to keep items on the shelves and making them easy for genuine customers to buy (internal industry research shows that sales go down significantly when items are locked away behind counters). The sort of things mentioned above won't stop all shoplifting, but will deter some and make it more difficult for others without making it too difficult for a genuine customer to purchase.

Things do change over time, criminals find workarounds to anything new so it's a constant game of 'cat and mouse'.

As far as police response is concerned, many police forces seem to have policies of not responding if the retail value of the allegedly stolen goods are worth less than a certain amount, often £100, but sometimes more. This is certainly the case in Devon and Cornwall and hasn't been challenged by 'our' Police and Crime Commissioner!

 

[Hadders]

As far as police response is concerned, many police forces seem to have policies of not responding if the retail value of the allegedly stolen goods are worth less than a certain amount, often £100, but sometimes more. This is certainly the case in Devon and Cornwall and hasn't been challenged by 'our' Police and Crime Commissioner!

£200 in many areas.

 

[Trackman]

If the images are stored for an indeterminate period, would that be gdpr compliant? Were there notices to that effect?

There is/was a recent series about Shoplifters, I watched one of them. There was a guy, ex police I think who has come up with a facial recognition system for repeat shoplifters. The subject of GDPR cropped up, but they knew a way around it. I can't remember what it was though.

As far as police response is concerned, many police forces seem to have policies of not responding if the retail value of the allegedly stolen goods are worth less than a certain amount, often £100, but sometimes more. This is certainly the case in Devon and Cornwall and hasn't been challenged by 'our' Police and Crime Commissioner!

That was on the shoplifters programme too, chief of Police or whatever said it's rubbish. I beg to differ.

 

[Busaholic]

£200 in many areas.

Yes indeed including, I think, my own area. I've certainly heard of a £300 minimum in one area.

 

[david1212]

The 20 item limit for self-service checkouts has come up on Yahoo.

Aldi customers outraged after being caught short by little-known checkout rule

Aldi customers have been left outraged by a little-known self-checkout rule in place at stores across the UK.

uk.yahoo.com

Taking to X, formally known as Twitter, one Aldi shopper asked the chain: "Since when did you have 20 items or less on your self-service checkouts?

They went on to complain about the lack of signage, telling the company: "There is no sign saying so. Be nice to know in advance which self-service checkout I can go to."

An Aldi customer service representative was quick to reply, telling the shopper: "All stores currently have a 20-item limit on self-checkouts.

"This change is designed to make it simpler and more efficient for you to shop with us. All customers can still use checkouts managed by our amazing colleagues!"

Other customers have had a similar experience to mine last week including no signage clearly stating the limit.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The 20 item limit for self-service checkouts has come up on Yahoo.






Other customers have had a similar experience to mine last week including no signage clearly stating the limit.

You will notice that 'customer service' answered only part of the questions asked and only in the way that they wanted to.
They were asked 'since when', the response was 'all stores have a limit'. They admit it is a change though.
They were asked about 'signage', the response was 'tumbleweed'.
But you can 'still use checkouts managed by our amazing colleagues'. Well given that the alternative, for those with more than 20 items, would be to walk out without paying, that's good to hear! Good for the Aldi balance sheet too I imagine.

 

[AM9]

You will notice that 'customer service' answered only part of the questions asked and only in the way that they wanted to.
They were asked 'since when', the response was 'all stores have a limit'. They admit it is a change though.
They were asked about 'signage', the response was 'tumbleweed'.
But you can 'still use checkouts managed by our amazing colleagues'. Well given that the alternative, for those with more than 20 items, would be to walk out without paying, that's good to hear! Good for the Aldi balance sheet too I imagine.

A quick way to fix that would be to get your full trolley, especially if it contains frozen items, and when the helpful member of staff enlightens you of their (hidden) policy, just give them the trolley and walk out. No offence committed as you haven taken anything out of the store. It would certainly mess with their absolute minimum staff levels activities though.

A couple of those events would probably result in some hastily posted notices about the checkout area!

 

[jon81uk]

A quick way to fix that would be to get your full trolley, especially if it contains frozen items, and when the helpful member of staff enlightens you of their (hidden) policy, just give them the trolley and walk out. No offence committed as you haven taken anything out of the store. It would certainly mess with their absolute minimum staff levels activities though.

A couple of those events would probably result in some hastily posted notices about the checkout area!

The Aldi self-checkouts are not designed to be used with a full trolley anyway, there isn't enough packing space. They are obviously basket-only to start with. Yes you can get more than 20 items in a basket (especially the pull-along ones) but if you have a metal trolley then you shouldn't be using Aldi self-checkout anyway.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

A quick way to fix that would be to get your full trolley, especially if it contains frozen items, and when the helpful member of staff enlightens you of their (hidden) policy, just give them the trolley and walk out. No offence committed as you haven taken anything out of the store. It would certainly mess with their absolute minimum staff levels activities though.

A couple of those events would probably result in some hastily posted notices about the checkout area!

Ancient history: when dinosaurs ruled the aisles, there were specific manned checkouts for basket shoppers with clear signage '10 items or fewer' (or similar). Widely ignored I seem to recall. Some kind of Jenga game to balance as many items as possible into a hand-held basket.
But that was in proper supermarkets.

The Aldi self-checkouts are not designed to be used with a full trolley anyway, there isn't enough packing space. They are obviously basket-only trolleys to start with. Yes you can get more than 20 items in a basket (especially the pull-along ones) but if you have a metal trolley then you shouldn't be using Aldi self-checkout anyway.

What goes around comes around.

To be honest, there is karma / schadenfreude in seeing trolley shoppers being inconvenienced. It makes up for all those years when basket shoppers were abused by having to use manned tills and having their items thrown at them quicker than you could pack them into your shopping bags. Then having the next shoppers items thrown at you as well because you were so slow!

Please remove your items.
Please remove your items.
Please remove your items.
Please remove your items. (repeat forever)

Perhaps these discounters are only interested in maximising profit and minimising costs, customer experience being a long way down the list of priorities.

 

[takno]

I didn't bother going into Aldi for years because their "amazing" checkout operators were so dedicated to hopping off the tills and stacking the shelves that it was often literally impossible to pay. I only went back because they installed the self checkouts. I bet they get themselves in a position where there is always somebody there to police the 20 item limit but often nobody there to keep a checkout open.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Aldi seems not to be as super as many folk make out.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Part of the Aldi success story is and always has been the fact that every store assistant and indeed higher grade is capable of doing anything from scanning through a trolley load of food for a family of six to stacking the shelves or tidying up the warehouse. I really can't complain at the difference in price and indeed quality of customer service that is offered as well as quality of merchandise with this model

 

[takno]

Part of the Aldi success story is and always has been the fact that every store assistant and indeed higher grade is capable of doing anything from scanning through a trolley load of food for a family of six to stacking the shelves or tidying up the warehouse. I really can't complain at the difference in price and indeed quality of customer service that is offered as well as quality of merchandise with this model

I'm a big fan, both of the prices on some (but very much not all) items, the pretty reasonable quality of some of the items, and the efforts of the staff. The trouble, as with most other smaller supermarkets, is that if you don't commit to having one person on the tills all the time then you're making life difficult, and almost certainly losing money through theft from people who would pay but won't go out of their way to do so.

 

[Typhoon]

I didn't bother going into Aldi for years because their "amazing" checkout operators were so dedicated to hopping off the tills and stacking the shelves that it was often literally impossible to pay. I only went back because they installed the self checkouts. I bet they get themselves in a position where there is always somebody there to police the 20 item limit but often nobody there to keep a checkout open.

I'm surprised at that; at the Aldi stores I go in there are regular announcements 'We are opening checkout No. 3 for you, please start to unpack your shopping', 'Operator required at checkout No. 3' (followed ten minutes later by 'We are closing checkout No. 3, please go to another available checkout'). They do seem to respond to queue lengths. Maybe it is just individual stores. They do seem to get through staff members though.
My beef with them is that the nearest has six self checkouts (for 6 to 10 items - ideal), but they are never all working - last time I went in, half were. I put on my 'bored senseless' look and within a couple of minutes and assistant emerged from the staff area, put a key into the checkout, turned it and it sprang into life. Why couldn't that happen before? And why just the one? (One of the others had gone out of order while I was queuing.)

 

[takno]

I'm surprised at that; at the Aldi stores I go in there are regular announcements 'We are opening checkout No. 3 for you, please start to unpack your shopping', 'Operator required at checkout No. 3' (followed ten minutes later by 'We are closing checkout No. 3, please go to another available checkout'). They do seem to respond to queue lengths. Maybe it is just individual stores. They do seem to get through staff members though.
My beef with them is that the nearest has six self checkouts (for 6 to 10 items - ideal), but they are never all working - last time I went in, half were. I put on my 'bored senseless' look and within a couple of minutes and assistant emerged from the staff area, put a key into the checkout, turned it and it sprang into life. Why couldn't that happen before? And why just the one? (One of the others had gone out of order while I was queuing.)

Yes, we get that now, although that may relate to the fact that I switched to going in the middle of the day rather than the evening. I am a bit suspicious that those messages are so regular though, and that the "we are opening checkout x" is always made before "please staff checkout x". It suggests that they aren't there to start serving you quickly. I find it also annoys me as a shopper, so as a staff member it would probably drive me nuts - it's so much slower and less reliable to stop unpacking a box or rotating stock halfway through, and getting stock from the freezer can take a few minutes. Doing that to cover the odd peak is okay, but I couldn't do it continually for the whole of every shift.

 

[sannox]

I've found that Aldi since installing self checkouts are pretty disinclined to open manned checkouts. I've been directed through with trolleys etc to use self checkout and haven't come across 20 item limit. I was near 40 items last week with no issues.

 

[Typhoon]

Y.. I find it also annoys me as a shopper, so as a staff member it would probably drive me nuts - it's so much slower and less reliable to stop unpacking a box or rotating stock halfway through, and getting stock from the freezer can take a few minutes. Doing that to cover the odd peak is okay, but I couldn't do it continually for the whole of every shift.

Probably why they have a turnaround of staff (and why they pay a higher wage than most). I haven't seen the woman who used to tell customers how much she liked working for Aldi for some time. Maybe she was trying to convince herself,not us?

I've found that Aldi since installing self checkouts are pretty disinclined to open manned checkouts. I've been directed through with trolleys etc to use self checkout and haven't come across 20 item limit. I was near 40 items last week with no issues.

Maybe the reason for 'no signs', there is a limit when they want there to be a limit but not when they don't!

 

[birchesgreen]

Twenty seems a low number, with a lot of small items you could easily pass that with just a small basket.

 

[takno]

Twenty seems a low number, with a lot of small items you could easily pass that with just a small basket.

I suspect I get close virtually every time, and I never fill a basket. On the other hand, could the staff member in charge of cattle-herding successfully eyeball that, or do they just challenge people with heaving baskets or trolleys?

 

[Typhoon]

I suspect I get close virtually every time, and I never fill a basket. On the other hand, could the staff member in charge of cattle-herding successfully eyeball that, or do they just challenge people with heaving baskets or trolleys?

I suspect it is the latter. They haven't time to count, just a way of reducing long queues at the self-checkouts. A lot depends on the items involved - last time I went in there I bought a big bag of potatoes, some veg and fruit. If I had bought a loaf and a couple of bottles that would fill the basket but only half a dozen items. I reckon you could get away with 30 items provided they were not too big. It is not like the '8 items or less' lanes, where the people behind could count and complain.

 

[Acfb]

Aldi only put in the self checkouts fairly recently at the Oxgangs one, replacing one checkout but I've always found it remarkably efficient TBH and well managed even before that. I usually only go there for milk anyway.

 

[YorkRailFan]

A consultative ballot of nearly 200 GMB members at the store showed almost 90 per cent were ready to strike, on a turnout of just under 80 per cent.

GMB union will notify the company this week, with the strike vote likely to begin the week after.

Workers are angry at a series of issues including:

Cuts in hours
Poor quality training
Bullying management
Health and safety issues not being addressed
Fire safety breaches rampant
Equal pay not resolved in a timely manner
No collective bargaining with GMB
Lowestoft becomes the fifth Asda to face industrial action after industrial action at Gosport and strike votes at Wisbech and Brighton’s Hollingbury and Marina stores.


Keith Dixon, GMB Regional Organiser, said:

“Asda has lost its leadership, it’s direction and management no longer values colleagues. The current state of the company is dire.

“GMB Members in Asda Lowestoft are fed up with lies, they want issues resolving they do not want to be fobbed off.

"We have evidence of around 4,000 health and safety breaches, including blocked fire exits, fire routes, and fire extinguishers, along with faulty fire alarm systems.

It’s illegal and it should be addressed- we have sent with photographic evidence to Asda but they appear to be burying their heads in the sand.

“Meanwhile workers face cuts to their hours and inadequate training - they’ve had enough.

“GMB is behind every one of our members within Asda Lowestoft in making sure their voices are heard and they are treated with the respect and dignity they deserve.”

Asda Lowestoft faces strike vote

Asda’s Lowestoft store faces a strike vote after workers said they were ready for industrial action.

www.gmb.org.uk

Good business for other Supermarkets in the area in that case.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Asda Lowestoft faces strike vote

Asda’s Lowestoft store faces a strike vote after workers said they were ready for industrial action.

www.gmb.org.uk

Good business for other Supermarkets in the area in that case.

Indeed, there are many supermarkets of all sizes in many places these days.

 

[Kite159]

Asda Lowestoft faces strike vote

Asda’s Lowestoft store faces a strike vote after workers said they were ready for industrial action.

www.gmb.org.uk

Good business for other Supermarkets in the area in that case.

Agreed, cue the owners of Asda deciding "after a review, we have decided to close this store" like they did with a couple of the Euro Garage operated sites in this area when staff started to kick off about poor managers. Rather than to roll over to give into the unions demands.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Yes, we get that now, although that may relate to the fact that I switched to going in the middle of the day rather than the evening. I am a bit suspicious that those messages are so regular though, and that the "we are opening checkout x" is always made before "please staff checkout x". It suggests that they aren't there to start serving you quickly. I find it also annoys me as a shopper, so as a staff member it would probably drive me nuts - it's so much slower and less reliable to stop unpacking a box or rotating stock halfway through, and getting stock from the freezer can take a few minutes. Doing that to cover the odd peak is okay, but I couldn't do it continually for the whole of every shift.

If the announcements were the other way round, I would still be unloading my trolley, whilst the assistant was sitting idly, wasting time, twiddling their thumbs waiting for me. Indeed there's been many times where I've been unloading my trolley and the assistant has said "back in a moment" and gone off to do something else and returned before I've finished.

The whole system is designed around maximum efficiency to reduce costs, rather than replicating a "traditional" supermarket experience. The vast majority of stock is delivered and packaged in such a way that the box is ripped open and placed straight onto the shelf, so that it is quick and efficient and not affected by staff members going to operate a checkout.

I actually much prefer the Aldi checkout experience. Throw everything back into the trolley and go and pack at the shelf at my own pace, without feeling under pressure to hurry so the next person can be served. Without fail, my local Aldi stores always manage to serve me at a manned checkout far far quicker than the local Asda does.

Perhaps it's just a local thing, but my local stores usually do the opposite to Tesco/Asda et al, closing the self service tills towards the end of the day and only keeping the manned tills open. People with trolley loads are more than happy to let basket shoppers jump the queue whilst they are still unloading their trolley, in fact the store staff actively encourage it.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Asda Lowestoft faces strike vote

Asda’s Lowestoft store faces a strike vote after workers said they were ready for industrial action.

www.gmb.org.uk

Good business for other Supermarkets in the area in that case.

Four other branches have either already gone on strike or are currently balloting for strike action. Staff at the Gosport branch were on strike a few weeks ago, and staff at Wisbech, Brighton Marina and Brighton Hollingbury are being balloted. With how things seem to be at Asda right now, it wouldn't surprise me if we see the GMB step up to issuing a national strike ballot across all stores within the next 6-12 months.