SWR class 456 at Derby RTC

[Townsend Hook]

Morning all,

Noted that there was at least one vehicle of a SWR class 456 at Derby RTC this morning, apparently having some bodywork done by the looks of things. Wondering if anyone has more info on which unit it is? Ta.

 

[XCTurbostar]

I wouldn’t be surprised if NR are interested in using those 456s for test trains/sandite trains after they’re withdrawn.

 

[WVL14]

Its part of 456017 which was involved in side scrape incident at Wimbledon back in 3-20. One DTS from 455847 is also there as that was the other vehicle involved.

 

[JonathanH]

I wouldn’t be surprised if NR are interested in using those 456s for test trains/sandite trains after they’re withdrawn.

I think the days of using redundant units for those purposes are long gone given the move to purpose built MPV vehicles.

 

[Townsend Hook]

Its part of 456017 which was involved in side scrape incident at Wimbledon back in 3-20. One DTS from 455847 is also there as that was the other vehicle involved.

Thanks, much appreciated.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Its part of 456017 which was involved in side scrape incident at Wimbledon back in 3-20. One DTS from 455847 is also there as that was the other vehicle involved.

If it were required in traffic, would it have been possible to form one good hybrid 4-car unit using the undamaged vehicles from each? Or are there essential components in both 456 cars which would prevent the undamaged one being used as a surrogate driving car on a 455?

 

[Nym]

I think the days of using redundant units for those purposes are long gone given the move to purpose built MPV vehicles.

Except for all the Ex.Sleeper Mk.2s that NR have now leased?

Or the Class 43 Power Cars now being trialled to drag them round?

 

[Class455]

Its part of 456017 which was involved in side scrape incident at Wimbledon back in 3-20. One DTS from 455847 is also there as that was the other vehicle involved.

Found some pictures on Flickr of the two vehicles.

455847 77672 and 456017 78266 Derby

Explore Ryan Tranmer's 159601 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

 

[Dan15812]

It would be very nice to see one of the 455/56 get the SWR livery put on but sadly that is probably very unlikely to happen.

 

[DustyBin]

I’ve always quite liked the 456’s, I’m not sure why, maybe because I have vague memories of travelling on one when I was little (I think it was a London Bridge to Victoria service). They’re not that old really, but what do you do with a two car third rail EMU? Are they PRM compliant?

 

[Fincra5]

I’ve always quite liked the 456’s, I’m not sure why, maybe because I have vague memories of travelling on one when I was little (I think it was a London Bridge to Victoria service). They’re not that old really, but what do you do with a two car third rail EMU? Are they PRM compliant?

Well they didn't have a toilet to modify.. so yes I believe so!

 

[43096]

I’ve always quite liked the 456’s, I’m not sure why, maybe because I have vague memories of travelling on one when I was little (I think it was a London Bridge to Victoria service). They’re not that old really, but what do you do with a two car third rail EMU? Are they PRM compliant?

They were made PRM compliant when they were refurbished for SWT at Wolverton.

 

[Deepgreen]

Except for all the Ex.Sleeper Mk.2s that NR have now leased?

Or the Class 43 Power Cars now being trialled to drag them round?

'Haul', not "drag". The latter implies the brakes are locked on!

 

[WarrenTManager]

If it were required in traffic, would it have been possible to form one good hybrid 4-car unit using the undamaged vehicles from each? Or are there essential components in both 456 cars which would prevent the undamaged one being used as a surrogate driving car on a 455?

you couldn’t have a 456 DMS taking the place of a 455 DTS. The 455s have changed too much with AC traction in terms of wiring within the unit. They can still work in multiple but not as a hybrid. The 456 DTS has a compressor where the DMS does not, that would leave a 4 car with one compressor as both 455 DTS have a compressor. There is also a different MA fitted, and I can’t tell you exactly what the difference is between a G783BX and G783BV but the 455 doesn’t like it!

I suppose I could have replied no. Apologies for the ramble.

 

[Speed43125]

Except for all the Ex.Sleeper Mk.2s that NR have now leased?

They've only gotten those for their CETs! it would look pretty bad on them if after all their talk of removing the toilets that dump on to the track if all they're trains continued to have them.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

you couldn’t have a 456 DMS taking the place of a 455 DTS. The 455s have changed too much with AC traction in terms of wiring within the unit. They can still work in multiple but not as a hybrid. The 456 DTS has a compressor where the DMS does not, that would leave a 4 car with one compressor as both 455 DTS have a compressor. There is also a different MA fitted, and I can’t tell you exactly what the difference is between a G783BX and G783BV but the 455 doesn’t like it!

I suppose I could have replied no. Apologies for the ramble.

On the contrary, I appreciate the explanation. Thanks

 

[norbitonflyer]

you couldn’t have a 456 DMS taking the place of a 455 DTS. The 455s have changed too much with AC traction in terms of wiring within the unit. They can still work in multiple but not as a hybrid. The 456 DTS has a compressor where the DMS does not, that would leave a 4 car with one compressor as both 455 DTS have a compressor. There is also a different MA fitted, and I can’t tell you exactly what the difference is between a G783BX and G783BV but the 455 doesn’t like it!

I suppose I could have replied no. Apologies for the ramble.

Another poster has identified the 456 vehicle as 78266, which is a DTS, not a DMS

 

[DustyBin]

you couldn’t have a 456 DMS taking the place of a 455 DTS. The 455s have changed too much with AC traction in terms of wiring within the unit. They can still work in multiple but not as a hybrid. The 456 DTS has a compressor where the DMS does not, that would leave a 4 car with one compressor as both 455 DTS have a compressor. There is also a different MA fitted, and I can’t tell you exactly what the difference is between a G783BX and G783BV but the 455 doesn’t like it!

I suppose I could have replied no. Apologies for the ramble.

No apology required, I for one appreciate your input!

 

[5920]

The DMS is still at Wimbledon and therefore would be part of the hybrid that the question related to.

Another poster has identified the 456 vehicle as 78266, which is a DTS, not a DMS

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Will either unit ever return to service?

 

[norbitonflyer]

The DMS is still at Wimbledon and therefore would be part of the hybrid that the question related to.

My error - of course if the vehicle at Derby is the DTS, then it is the DMS that is spare.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Will either unit ever return to service?

Yes, both.

 

[janahan]

I’ve always quite liked the 456’s, I’m not sure why, maybe because I have vague memories of travelling on one when I was little (I think it was a London Bridge to Victoria service). They’re not that old really, but what do you do with a two car third rail EMU? Are they PRM compliant?

I have never really found the 456's appealing, but I think its because I used to live near Harrow, and am used to the Dusty Bins (Class 321) which always looked smart and streamlined, especially in the original NSE livery, and when I first saw the 456's in clapham junction way back in 1998/1999, they had the pipe/cables at the front, and the liveries were a very tired looking grey NSE, or an even more shabby looking Connex South Central Livery, just did not appeal.

Despite what SWT did with them, I still see the pipes, and the horridly maintained liveries from before.

 

[DustyBin]

I have never really found the 456's appealing, but I think its because I used to live near Harrow, and am used to the Dusty Bins (Class 321) which always looked smart and streamlined, especially in the original NSE livery, and when I first saw the 456's in clapham junction way back in 1998/1999, they had the pipe/cables at the front, and the liveries were a very tired looking grey NSE, or an even more shabby looking Connex South Central Livery, just did not appeal.

Despite what SWT did with them, I still see the pipes, and the horridly maintained liveries from before.

Yes I agree, the Bins still look really smart even today. I like the light clusters they remind me of a MK3 Granada (I actually own one of those!). Obviously the look is ruined by the high level pipes and cables as well as the use of standard light clusters on the 456's. I still like them though, as unremarkable as they are in many ways. Thinking about it, they're the closest we got to an electric Sprinter.

 

[7 Ingleborough]

456s going off lease as their replacements come on stream, and it is a condition of the lease that any damage is repaired before handback.

 

[clagmonster]

you couldn’t have a 456 DMS taking the place of a 455 DTS. The 455s have changed too much with AC traction in terms of wiring within the unit. They can still work in multiple but not as a hybrid. The 456 DTS has a compressor where the DMS does not, that would leave a 4 car with one compressor as both 455 DTS have a compressor. There is also a different MA fitted, and I can’t tell you exactly what the difference is between a G783BX and G783BV but the 455 doesn’t like it!

I suppose I could have replied no. Apologies for the ramble.

Thanks for the explanation. As a matter of interest, and I know in this case it is the DTS out for repair so it won't happen, but could a 456 DTS, rather than a DMS replace a 455 DTS, given that the 456 DTS will have the required compressor, or will the wiring make it impossible?

Similarly, could a 455 DTS replace a 456 DTS, creating a 2 car unit formed 455 DTS - 456 DMS?

Apologies for the hypothetical questions, just attempting to expand my understanding. I understand that it is highly unlikely either of the above will happen in practice.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Another poster has identified the 456 vehicle as 78266, which is a DTS, not a DMS

Correct....any motor coach on a 455 or 456 number starts with a 6 not a 7.(on the side of the coach)
IE 64---.

 

[nlogax]

I’ve always quite liked the 456’s, I’m not sure why, maybe because I have vague memories of travelling on one when I was little (I think it was a London Bridge to Victoria service). They’re not that old really, but what do you do with a two car third rail EMU? Are they PRM compliant?

Same, though I remember them being in quite sorry shape in their previous life. SWT did a great job in rehabilitating them. When they were reintroduced on the SWML I'd make a point about traveling in them as opposed to the 455s to which they were attached.

 

[swt_passenger]

I have never really found the 456's appealing, but I think its because I used to live near Harrow, and am used to the Dusty Bins (Class 321) which always looked smart and streamlined, especially in the original NSE livery, and when I first saw the 456's in clapham junction way back in 1998/1999, they had the pipe/cables at the front, and the liveries were a very tired looking grey NSE, or an even more shabby looking Connex South Central Livery, just did not appeal.

Despite what SWT did with them, I still see the pipes, and the horridly maintained liveries from before.

Aren’t the pipes and cable connections necessary to multiple with 455s, it’s not as if they were really optional at the time...

 

[DustyBin]

Same, though I remember them being in quite sorry shape in their previous life. SWT did a great job in rehabilitating them. When they were reintroduced on the SWML I'd make a point about traveling in them as opposed to the 455s to which they were attached.

I'll confess, I do the same!

Aren’t the pipes and cable connections necessary to multiple with 455s, it’s not as if they were really optional at the time...

Indeed, they weren't optional.