SWR Class 458 to be retained

[nctd2306]

The number of LTP 455 diagrams goes up from 62 to 70 from February. It's difficult to see it be able to increase much further if more 458s are withdrawn.

And where are they getting these extra 455s from? I was under the impression that there was pretty much zero slack left in that fleet. The 450 repaint program is finally near it's end with only 2 (I think) units left to be painted, that will at least make two extra Desiros available that could be used either as an 8 car suburban diagram or to strengthen existing diagrams to 8 or 12 car

 

[TEW]

The 455 fleet has not been particularly intensively worked since Covid.

 

[The_Train]

Yes and yes.

Thank you

 

[Goldfish62]

'Let train firms run the railways - not the Government', says Transport Secretary

The “last thing” the public wants is for politicians to have a “vision for exactly how to map out the detail” of running the railways, the Transport Secretary has said.

news.yahoo.com

The transport secretary wants to hand over responsibility from DfT to GBR asap!

The article is inaccurate. There is no legislation to enable GBR to come into existence and, I suspect, there never will be.

The 455 fleet has not been particularly intensively worked since Covid.

Makes me question why there are often so many short formations and why so many services at weekends that so obviously need two units are formed of a single unit only.

 

[TEW]

The article is inaccurate. There is no legislation to enable GBR to come into existence and, I suspect, there never will be.


Makes me question why there are often so many short formations and why so many services at weekends that so obviously need two units are formed of a single unit only.

455 short forms are actually very rare. Even when a pair fails and is taken out of traffic in the day a fresh pair usually is found to replace them. And it's thankfully only a few Sunday diagrams booked 4-car now. The 458s and 450s short forms are more common.

 

[Meerkat]

Makes me question why there are often so many short formations and why so many services at weekends that so obviously need two units are formed of a single unit only.

SWT/SWR policy has been to put out too short trains at weekends for years now hasn’t it?
Certainly seems that way on Saturday mornings.

 

[Goldfish62]

SWT/SWR policy has been to put out too short trains at weekends for years now hasn’t it?
Certainly seems that way on Saturday mornings.

Yes, certainly on many lines. Thankfully the Windsor lines have always been exempt from this policy.

 

[TEW]

The weekend formations are much improved under SWR. No 4-455s booked on Saturday and only a few diagrams on a Sunday. Both routes to Portsmouth see more longer formations too.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Paths for the return of 458424 to Widnes are now on RTT. I do not know if this is for rectification or for storage?

Monday 29/01
5O58 0511 Leicester L.I.P. to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains | 5O58 0511 Leicester L.I.P. to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 29/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5O58 0511 departure from Leicester L.I.P. to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 29/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q58 1711 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech

Realtime Trains | 5Q58 1711 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech | 29/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q58 1711 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech on 29/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Tuesday 30/01

Realtime Trains | 5M55 1708 Widnes Transport Tech to Leicester L.I.P. | 30/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5M55 1708 departure from Widnes Transport Tech to Leicester L.I.P. on 30/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5M55 1708 Widnes Transport Tech to Leicester L.I.P.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The number of LTP 455 diagrams goes up from 62 to 70 from February. It's difficult to see it be able to increase much further if more 458s are withdrawn.

Whats the total fleet size currently?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Whats the total fleet size currently?

82 units

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

70/82 is nowhere near as intensive as how the 450s are worked, but the constant exams and maintenance to keep the ancient things going will obviously make it difficult to provide reliable availability beyond that.

 

[Peter Sarf]

70/82 is nowhere near as intensive as how the 450s are worked, but the constant exams and maintenance to keep the ancient things going will obviously make it difficult to provide reliable availability beyond that.

Ancient - I thought the SWR 455s had nice new traction packages ?.

 

[Doomotron]

Ancient - I thought the SWR 455s had nice new traction packages ?.

They did, but that doesn't change everything. Fundamentally they're still the same trains they were when they rolled off the production line.

 

[43096]

They did, but that doesn't change everything. Fundamentally they're still the same trains they were when they rolled off the production line.

But the whole point of re-tractioning was to reduce the maintenance requirement through AC motors and modern converter technology, so no more brushes to change on the motors or camshafts to fettle. That's a fundamental difference from what they were built with.

 

[Goldfish62]

They did, but that doesn't change everything. Fundamentally they're still the same trains they were when they rolled off the production line.

And Stagecoach said at the time of retractioning that it was aimed to extend their lives for another 10 years. 10 years is up next year.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

And Stagecoach said at the time of retractioning that it was aimed to extend their lives for another 10 years. 10 years is up next year.

I also believe the retractioning didn’t give the improvement that was hoped.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I also believe the retractioning didn’t give the improvement that was hoped.

Well its allowed them to cover the 701 fiasco so thats an improvement

 

[norbitonflyer]

And Stagecoach said at the time of retractioning that it was aimed to extend their lives for another 10 years. 10 years is up next year.

For all of them?

 

[Doomotron]

But the whole point of re-tractioning was to reduce the maintenance requirement through AC motors and modern converter technology, so no more brushes to change on the motors or camshafts to fettle. That's a fundamental difference from what they were built with.

The point is that even with a different traction package, it won't change the fact that they're old trains with old components, many of which might be becoming expensive to replace or just difficult to find. As said by others above, the 455s have reached the amount of time the retractioning was meant to let them achieve, but still did not do as much good as anticipated.

 

[Goldfish62]

The point is that even with a different traction package, it won't change the fact that they're old trains with old components, many of which might be becoming expensive to replace or just difficult to find. As said by others above, the 455s have reached the amount of time the retractioning was meant to let them achieve, but still did not do as much good as anticipated.

But at least in Roger Ford's latest annual rolling stock reliability survey they were top of the tree in the now rather small ex-BR EMU category. But achieving nowhere near any of the Desiros, I might add.

 

[Notchapple]

70/82 is nowhere near as intensive as how the 450s are worked, but the constant exams and maintenance to keep the ancient things going will obviously make it difficult to provide reliable availability beyond that.

12 (theoretical) extra units and 455728 is out by itself and rammed full.

 

[pompeyfan]

12 (theoretical) extra units and 455728 is out by itself and rammed full.

I’d imagine the overtime ban might be more of the problem not being able to get any of the spare units off depot.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Yes, certainly on many lines. Thankfully the Windsor lines have always been exempt from this policy.

I saw a couple of short formations at Feltham on Sunday. I was quite surprised because as you say it's quite unusual.

 

[Rogersbmx]

Paths for the return of 458424 to Widnes are now on RTT. I do not know if this is for rectification or for storage?

Monday 29/01
5O58 0511 Leicester L.I.P. to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains | 5O58 0511 Leicester L.I.P. to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 29/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5O58 0511 departure from Leicester L.I.P. to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 29/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q58 1711 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech

Realtime Trains | 5Q58 1711 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech | 29/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q58 1711 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Widnes Transport Tech on 29/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Tuesday 30/01

Realtime Trains | 5M55 1708 Widnes Transport Tech to Leicester L.I.P. | 30/01/2024

Real-time train running information for 5M55 1708 departure from Widnes Transport Tech to Leicester L.I.P. on 30/01/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5M55 1708 Widnes Transport Tech to Leicester L.I.P.

Rectification

 

[WarrenTManager]

For all of them?

5864 was the last one. Completed in January 2018. It was delayed due to some of the material for it being used up. Units 1-36 were accepted in 2016 and 37-89 were accepted in the first 8 months of 2017. 5913 was unit 90 accepted early September 2017.

 

[norbitonflyer]

5864 was the last one. Completed in January 2018. It was delayed due to some of the material for it being used up. Units 1-36 were accepted in 2016 and 37-89 were accepted in the first 8 months of 2017. 5913 was unit 90 accepted early September 2017.

Unsurprising that 5913 was one of the last, as the motor coach had been completely rebuilt only four years earlier, after Oxshott. Although it is perhaps surprising that it was not used as the guinea pig for the retractioning as part of the rebuilding.

 

[Benno]

458515 should be the next unit to head North. Planned to leave Bournemouth Tuesday 13th Feb (unless plans change).

 

[Siemens Staines]

Thank you for the information. I notice that 458515 should end at Wimbledon Park tonight off the 2252 Waterloo - Weybridge, so will today its last day in use as 458515?

 

[Benno]

Thank you for the information. I notice that 458515 should end at Wimbledon Park tonight off the 2252 Waterloo - Weybridge, so will today its last day in use as 458515?

Quite possibly. It should move to Bournemouth shortly after for preparation to move to Widnes (Strapping up collector shoes, removal of step boards etc.)