SWR Class 458 to be retained

[stadler]

Does anyone know if the 458/4 and 458/5 can work coupled to each other in passenger service? If so could we see a nine coach 458 formation at some point?

 

[43096]

I don’t think it’s fair to use my post and make it look like I don’t give a stuff about the customers.

Fair point - and from your postings on here, I don't believe that's the case.

It was a comment on SWR senior management and the DfT handlers.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Does anyone know if the 458/4 and 458/5 can work coupled to each other in passenger service? If so could we see a nine coach 458 formation at some point?

Yes I do. No. Definitely not.

 

[norbitonflyer]

415 and 421 today, according to RTT

 

[Invincible]

It says 16 units forming 8 sets will be brought in the next few weeks, wouldn’t surprise me if it ends up being all 28 when the refurbs are done.

Guess there will be more 8 car 458/4s added to the Weybridge line and Hounslow loop quickly, as they don't seem to have the training and other problems affecting the 701s?
Then eventually when the 701s are sorted then 458/4s might move to the Portsmouth line if passenger numbers pick up?.

Seven? 8529-33, 8535, 8536.

8531/2 are closest to the C4 mileage that means they will be off lease of the seven. The others will drop when they too reach the 750,000 miles from last C4.

So the 458/5s out of mileage, not being converted, will soon be returning to the leasing company?
Who will presumably either store or scrap them?

 

[Mikey C]

The seats look a good shape. Not bolt upright like the DfT seems to think we should all sit.

Your photos show quite clearly what wasn't covered with the refurb.

A bit bizarre to not fix that leaky window during the refurb.

 

[janahan]

A bit bizarre to not fix that leaky window during the refurb.

Most probably because it could be more cost effective to do that and other ad hoc stuff in house (Wimbledon etc), and is down to differences between op-ex and cap ex (Operational expenses, and capital expenses).

This is because when you contract a third party to do some refurbishment (typically Capex), they need to make a "reasoned" quote for the work. Some things are easy to determine costs like changing ALL seats and grab poles, as its easier to estimate the amount of work required and parts needed. and put a more efficient ballpark figure. Replacing broken windows, fixing the odd panel and other ad hoc stuff cannot be estimated easily as they can vary unit to unit, so a guess needs to be made, and often erring on the higher side, as this capex work is usually a fixed price so any unforseen costs and work has to be absorbed by the contractor. This can easily inflate the cost, so often capex projects that may involved adhoc stuff would either have to pay more, or choose another way to do the ad hoc work.

Since SWR already have a talented set of engineers at Wimbledon and other places, it would be cheaper and more cost effective to have them done there, where the engineers can either fix or replace as deemed nessesary, especially as they are op-ex type work, whcih is just added to the day to day work.

 

[1nvicible]

Most probably because it could be more cost effective to do that and other ad hoc stuff in house (Wimbledon etc), and is down to differences between op-ex and cap ex (Operational expenses, and capital expenses).

This is because when you contract a third party to do some refurbishment (typically Capex), they need to make a "reasoned" quote for the work. Some things are easy to determine costs like changing ALL seats and grab poles, as its easier to estimate the amount of work required and parts needed. and put a more efficient ballpark figure. Replacing broken windows, fixing the odd panel and other ad hoc stuff cannot be estimated easily as they can vary unit to unit, so a guess needs to be made, and often erring on the higher side, as this capex work is usually a fixed price so any unforseen costs and work has to be absorbed by the contractor. This can easily inflate the cost, so often capex projects that may involved adhoc stuff would either have to pay more, or choose another way to do the ad hoc work.

Since SWR already have a talented set of engineers at Wimbledon and other places, it would be cheaper and more cost effective to have them done there, where the engineers can either fix or replace as deemed nessesary, especially as they are op-ex type work, whcih is just added to the day to day work.

Alstom conduct a full inspection when each set arrives and any remedial work required outside of the refurbishment is reported to the lease company who may / may not sanction extra cost.

 

[wickham]

458415 + 458421 coupled, parked main line side of Wimbledon Park cleaning shed at about 1030 today (Thurs 27.06.24).

 

[Siemens Staines]

There are paths on RTT for a planned transfer from/to Widnes next week. If these transfers run, the delivery from Widnes should be 458426 but it will only have been at Widnes for three weeks by Monday, which is a week less than usual. 458424 was completed in less than four weeks but, perhaps coincidentally, it was the one unit that had to be returned for rectification.

I am not sure what the next delivery to Widnes should be. 458506,510,514 are not out this morning, so it could be one of those three?

Monday 1st July 2024
5Z53 0732 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech

Realtime Trains | 5Z53 0732 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech | 01/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z53 0732 departure from Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech on 01/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q62 1311 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7

Realtime Trains | 5Q62 1311 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 01/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q62 1311 departure from Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 01/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Tuesday 2nd July 2024
5X64 1127 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central

Realtime Trains | 5X64 1127 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central | 02/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5X64 1127 departure from Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central on 02/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q64 1531 Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains | 5Q64 1531 Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 02/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q64 1531 departure from Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 02/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Z66 2018 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard

Realtime Trains | 5Z66 2018 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard | 02/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z66 2018 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard on 02/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[WarrenTManager]

There are paths on RTT for a planned transfer from/to Widnes next week. If these transfers run, the delivery from Widnes should be 458426 but it will only have been at Widnes for three weeks by Monday, which is a week less than usual. 458424 was completed in less than four weeks but, perhaps coincidentally, it was the one unit that had to be returned for rectification.

I am not sure what the next delivery to Widnes should be. 458506,510,514 are not out this morning, so it could be one of those three?

Monday 1st July 2024
5Z53 0732 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech

Realtime Trains | 5Z53 0732 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech | 01/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z53 0732 departure from Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech on 01/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q62 1311 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7

Realtime Trains | 5Q62 1311 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 01/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q62 1311 departure from Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 01/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Tuesday 2nd July 2024
5X64 1127 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central

Realtime Trains | 5X64 1127 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central | 02/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5X64 1127 departure from Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central on 02/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q64 1531 Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains | 5Q64 1531 Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 02/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q64 1531 departure from Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 02/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Z66 2018 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard

Realtime Trains | 5Z66 2018 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard | 02/07/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z66 2018 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard on 02/07/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

8506/14 are stopped for repairs.

8510 is working 5B39 1011 XWP-XBM today in preparation for conversion.

 

[Siemens Staines]

8506/14 are stopped for repairs.

8510 is working 5B39 1011 XWP-XBM today in preparation for conversion.

Thank you for this information.

 

[wickham]

Passing East Wimbledon on the main line at 1650 today (28/06/24) there was a Class 458 intermediate car on a road transporter - tractor unit pointing out of the depot.
Anyone know what this is all about ??

 

[superalbs]

Just been on one today. Would have been nice if they tidied it up. Lots of condensated windows, minor vandalism, and even something that looked like mould growing on the wall carpets. Very poor look!

Seats are comfy, though the older seats were better. A big improvement over a 450, but I'd still prefer a 444.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Just been on one today. Would have been nice if they tidied it up. Lots of condensated windows, minor vandalism, and even something that looked like mould growing on the wall carpets. Very poor look!

Seats are comfy, though the older seats were better. A big improvement over a 450, but I'd still prefer a 444.

Which car did you travel on?

The windows are difficult to get hold of at the moment and I believe the supply issues are not isolated to these units.

Passing East Wimbledon on the main line at 1650 today (28/06/24) there was a Class 458 intermediate car on a road transporter - tractor unit pointing out of the depot.
Anyone know what this is all about ??

One car of 8514 off for corrosion repair

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Lots of condensated windows, minor vandalism, and even something that looked like mould growing on the wall carpets.

Which car did you travel on?

Even the train service it was on, would narrow the unit identity down. All detail will allow some of these issues to be resolved sooner than later..

 

[superalbs]

Somewhere in 458415.

 

[janahan]

TfL three has a review on the 485/4

Generally quite favourable on the seats, especially second class, which they rated higher than first.
I have a soft spot for the 458, living in Feltham for the last 15 years, and the class has had its issues in the past, but nice to see them still going on, despite being written off so many times.

EDIT: Typos

 

[DCtrains]

8420 out today, I think being the third unit in pax service

 

[43096]

8420 out today, I think being the third unit in pax service

Fourth, I believe: 415/421/422 have also been used.

 

[brownandrew15]

8420 out today, I think being the third unit in pax service

Think it is the 4th - 421 and 422 were on the first day and 415 has been out since according to RealTime Trains allocations.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Think it is the 4th - 421 and 422 were on the first day and 415 has been out since according to RealTime Trains allocations.

Accoring to RTT 421 and 422 ran on the first four days, and 415+421 on Friday (in the afternoons, at least)
Today 415 and 421 were on the morning runs, and 420 and 422 this afternoon.

Is this the first time different units have been on morning and afternoon?

 

[TEW]

Accoring to RTT 421 and 422 ran on the first four days, and 415+421 on Friday (in the afternoons, at least)
Today 415 and 421 were on the morning runs, and 420 and 422 this afternoon.

Is this the first time different units have been on morning and afternoon?

No, the swap from 422 to 415 was also during the day. The diagram ends at Feltham Depot each night where there are no spare units, but visits Wimbledon during the day where units can be swapped.

 

[Andy1673]

Another 2x458/5 diagram now in hands of 2x450s 2C03-2C14-2C17-2C28-2C31-2C42-2C45-2C56-2C59-2C70-2S79. only 5 pairs of 458/5s remain in regular weekdays service.

 

[Goldfish62]

Another 2x458/5 diagram now in hands of 2x450s 2C03-2C14-2C17-2C28-2C31-2C42-2C45-2C56-2C59-2C70-2S79. only 5 pairs of 458/5s remain in regular weekdays service.

Yes, I noticed that. That's a very long standing 458/5 diagram. The 0639 off Reading is going to be bit cosy by the time it leaves Feltham.

 

[norbitonflyer]

No, the swap from 422 to 415 was also during the day. The diagram ends at Feltham Depot each night where there are no spare units, but visits Wimbledon during the day where units can be swapped.

Seems to be a regular thing. 420/422 this morning, 415/421 this afternoon.

 

[fgwrich]

Just been on one today. Would have been nice if they tidied it up. Lots of condensated windows, minor vandalism, and even something that looked like mould growing on the wall carpets. Very poor look!

Seats are comfy, though the older seats were better. A big improvement over a 450, but I'd still prefer a 444.

Having been lucky to have a look at a unit prior to service entry, I know the areas you're talking about. In particular, there seemed to be mould growing up the wall carpets under a leaking window in the former FC Section, and a number of "fish bowl" blown windows to boot. I know these are, as I've said in the past, Carpet and Seat refreshes but there are a number of touches or areas where the finishes could have been a little better. Toilets included.

 

[superalbs]

Having been lucky to have a look at a unit prior to service entry, I know the areas you're talking about. In particular, there seemed to be mould growing up the wall carpets under a leaking window in the former FC Section, and a number of "fish bowl" blown windows to boot. I know these are, as I've said in the past, Carpet and Seat refreshes but there are a number of touches or areas where the finishes could have been a little better. Toilets included.

They might be carpet and seat refreshes, but if there is literally mould growing on the walls when it enters service, something is seriously wrong!

Got some pictures off the camera now...

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Got some pictures off the camera now...

That's worse than I was expecting

 

[Goldfish62]

That's worse than I was expecting

They've been like that for years, including under SWT.