taximeter misbehaving.

[plugwash]

I recently took a private hire taxi home from a station that gets services later than my local station. The taxi was booked from one of the large firms in the Stockport area from a local station that gets services later than my local station does. This is something I do somewhat frequently and I previously haven't had any problems doing.

Over the last few years, it seems that pretty much all private hire operators have switched from traditional taximeters and seperate dispatch radios to systems based on a smartphone that combine both dispatch and metering. Unfortunately when I got home the meter stopped responding to the drivers input. The driver could drag the finish journey slider, but it just sprang back and failed to actually end the journey. It took some time and several restarts of the taximeter app before the app would respond and end the journey. During this time the meter continued to tick.

When I arrived the meter was saying just over £6 but by the time he managed to complete the journey in the meter it was over £7. The driver refused to take my money until the app worked and when he did take my £10 note he only gave me £2.50 change. I then said "either you give me proper change or I call the police", he gave me another pound coin, I decided that was close enough and left.

Did I act reasonablly?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes.

The journey had finished. It's not your fault the meter kept running.

Nor is it his fault, but he should not have attempted to charge you beyond the figure it was displaying when he drew up at your destination.

If it was me, I'd report him to the licencing authority - he might be doing serial overcharging like this.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I recently took a private hire taxi home from a station that gets services later than my local station. The taxi was booked from one of the large firms in the Stockport area from a local station that gets services later than my local station does. This is something I do somewhat frequently and I previously haven't had any problems doing.

Over the last few years, it seems that pretty much all private hire operators have switched from traditional taximeters and seperate dispatch radios to systems based on a smartphone that combine both dispatch and metering. Unfortunately when I got home the meter stopped responding to the drivers input. The driver could drag the finish journey slider, but it just sprang back and failed to actually end the journey. It took some time and several restarts of the taximeter app before the app would respond and end the journey. During this time the meter continued to tick.

When I arrived the meter was saying just over £6 but by the time he managed to complete the journey in the meter it was over £7. The driver refused to take my money until the app worked and when he did take my £10 note he only gave me £2.50 change. I then said "either you give me proper change or I call the police", he gave me another pound coin, I decided that was close enough and left.

Did I act reasonablly?

For the sake of a couple of pounds, it's rather petty, but ultimately you're within your rights. I suppose as @Peter Mugridge says, reporting it to the licensing authority might prevent worse overcharging.

 

[The exile]

Nor is it his fault, but he should not have attempted to charge you beyond the figure it was displaying when he drew up at your destination.

It might not be his fault, but it is surely his responsibility to ensure that his meter is functioning and accurate at all times - if it is not working then he should not be taking fares. I’m surprised licensing authorities permit meters that are not physically part of the vehicle and where there is little control that it is actually the one that has been checked.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It might not be his fault, but it is surely his responsibility to ensure that his meter is functioning and accurate at all times - if it is not working then he should not be taking fares. I’m surprised licensing authorities permit meters that are not physically part of the vehicle and where there is little control that it is actually the one that has been checked.

It's not legally a taximeter. Private hire operators can use whatever charging mechanism they like - be that flat fare, the odometer, negotiation or "what did you pay last time, mate?"

(Though some Councils and I think TfL have additional legislation that a taximeter MAY NOT be used - in that case that a mobile phone isn't a taximeter is useful!)

 

[plugwash]

Whatever it is legally it sure acts like a taximeter, That is the fare is determined as te jouney progresses and includes both distance and time aspects. Dunno if the distance is gps based or of it communicates with some equipment fitted in the car.

 

[185]

Not used a P/H in years (except on my company's account) .. only ever use Uber nowadays - in all 4 corners of the world. Only once had a 'disagreement' with an Uber driver trying to add a few miles pretending to be lost & not hearing the Uber-nav repeatedly saying 'turn left'. Uber gave us a 100% refund on the trip.

 

[TravelDream]

Not used a P/H in years (except on my company's account) .. only ever use Uber nowadays - in all 4 corners of the world. Only once had a 'disagreement' with an Uber driver trying to add a few miles pretending to be lost & not hearing the Uber-nav repeatedly saying 'turn left'. Uber gave us a 100% refund on the trip.

Isn't Uber fixed fare?
I've always paid the fare it says at the start anyway. Here in the UK, in Eastern Europe, in the Middle East and in Asia (before they pulled out).

 

[gnolife]

Isn't Uber fixed fare?
I've always paid the fare it says at the start anyway. Here in the UK, in Eastern Europe, in the Middle East and in Asia (before they pulled out).

I think that it may allow the driver to charge extra to amend the route in the event of a short notice road closure or congestion.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Whatever it is legally it sure acts like a taximeter, That is the fare is determined as te jouney progresses and includes both distance and time aspects. Dunno if the distance is gps based or of it communicates with some equipment fitted in the car.

It's GPS based. I believe the lack of a connection to the car is the reason why it isn't legally a taximeter and so is not legally regulated as one.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Isn't Uber fixed fare?

No, it's based on time and distance. As you say where you're going in advance it's usually accurate within a few pence, but the driver can game it by "getting lost", or it can ramp up in a traffic jam.

 

[The exile]

It's GPS based. I believe the lack of a connection to the car is the reason why it isn't legally a taximeter and so is not legally regulated as one.

But unless the fare changes s fixed / agreed in advance surely there is a requirement that any measuring devices are a) certified by trading standards (or similar( and b) working. If there isn’t, then there d*** well should be.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But unless the fare changes s fixed / agreed in advance surely there is a requirement that any measuring devices are a) certified by trading standards (or similar( and b) working. If there isn’t, then there d*** well should be.

It is overall pretty accurate. Not sure it would worry me.

 

[GusB]

But unless the fare changes s fixed / agreed in advance surely there is a requirement that any measuring devices are a) certified by trading standards (or similar( and b) working. If there isn’t, then there d*** well should be.

This is certainly the case in my part of the world. Most private hire cars have meters fitted and they're subject to the same regulation by the council as taxis are.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is certainly the case in my part of the world. Most private hire cars have meters fitted and they're subject to the same regulation by the council as taxis are.

That used to be the case in Milton Keynes but now the apps are used. Some cars are also used for Hackney work and so have meters but they are off for private hire journeys.

I seem to recall in London private hire companies are banned from using actual taximeters?

 

[Joe Paxton]

It's GPS based. I believe the lack of a connection to the car is the reason why it isn't legally a taximeter and so is not legally regulated as one.

Correct - it does feel a somewhat semantic argument to me, but this was upheld by the High Court in one of the TfL / Uber cases a few years ago. I'd imagine the law might be drafted differently if it was written today.

[...]
I seem to recall in London private hire companies are banned from using actual taximeters?

Also correct.

 

[D365]

For the sake of a couple of pounds, it's rather petty, but ultimately you're within your rights. I suppose as @Peter Mugridge says, reporting it to the licensing authority might prevent worse overcharging.

It's not petty - as per the subsequent comments, it's important to raise the issue if it could result in future passengers being falsely charged.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's not petty - as per the subsequent comments, it's important to raise the issue if it could result in future passengers being falsely charged.

Yes, indeed.

It's always possible that he knows it's behaving like that, and if he's getting an extra £1 or £2 off each of the 15 or so passengers he drives around each day, that's potentially an extra £150 a week he's grabbing for himself...

 

[Cloud Strife]

Did I act reasonablly?

No, to be honest, I think you acted far too nicely. I would say that it would be better to simply refuse to pay the fare given that the meter failed to work correctly. If he tried to detain you, it wouldn't end well, nor would it end well for him if the police were called.

The thing with apps is that they will show exactly what happened: that the extra charge came from the taxi standing at the end of the journey.

If it was me, I'd report him to the licencing authority - he might be doing serial overcharging like this.

Likewise.

This is certainly the case in my part of the world. Most private hire cars have meters fitted and they're subject to the same regulation by the council as taxis are.

I have to admit, this concept of private hire cars not having meters fitted is quite strange to me.

 

[plugwash]

I presume once the courts told uber that their app was not legally a taximeter and was legal to use, the other private hire companies decided they may as well go down the same path. Presumbally a cheap smartphone is a lot cheaper than a traditional taximeter and dispatch radio.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I presume once the courts told uber that their app was not legally a taximeter and was legal to use, the other private hire companies decided they may as well go down the same path. Presumbally a cheap smartphone is a lot cheaper than a traditional taximeter and dispatch radio.

Not all areas traditionally used taximeters in private hire - as I said above they are totally banned from doing so in London, for instance. Most commonly it'd just be done based on the distance on the odometer (or "what do you usually pay, mate"), and waiting time only added on if excessive. Though yes dispatch was commonly by voice radio, though the Milton Keynes companies had a digital system well before smartphones.

A smartphone costs £0 when taking up taxi driving because most people already have one. Like many things it makes absolute sense to use one. They are mostly accurate enough for the need.

 

[plugwash]

Granted i'm not a huge user of Taxis, but until recently I found taximeters to be the norm across various parts of the UK, with the occasional fixed price, I don't recall ever seeing a driver use the odometer and calculate by hand. The dispatch units seemed to be mostly text based though with the option of a voice channel.

At least the local companies round here (Metro and Lynx mainly) seem to use a dedicated smartphone for the taxi stuff with the Driver having a seperate personal phone.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Not all areas traditionally used taximeters in private hire - as I said above they are totally banned from doing so in London, for instance.

Where's the logic behind this ban? It seems to me that it would be wide open for racketeering without one.

 

[plugwash]

London has a strong Hackney Carriage lobby, I suspect they were responsible.

 

[guydebord1@hot]

Most of the taximeters these days also have GPS which is not dependent on the network, so the price per time should not vary much when the distance is set by the GPS device.

 

[pieguyrob]

All the taxis I have driven, has a meter that took a pulse from the speedo cable to work out the distance. In Blackpool, all the companies use the GPS based dispatch systems, where everything is done on an app. The driver in the op, was wrong to charge the extra. I now work on the dispatch side and that is not a tegular occurrence on my company.

 

[bussnapperwm]

My local cab firm give you a price if using their app, but then authorise for £2 over that price, just in case of diversions or delays. 99% of the time I've used them, the price they show on the app is the price I've paid (I had one that charged a bit more as he didn't end the trip, but a complaint to the firm got the difference refunded).

Fortunately their app also allows cash payments too (and they give a price when asked over the phone for a quote)