Temporary transfer of Turbostars from Chiltern to West Midlands Trains

[fgwrich]

If it is an extension of the Shrewsbury services then there will be no diversions required - the service will head from New St out to Proof House Jct then down the Camp Hill before reversing at Kings Norton. I think you may be getting confused with the Hereford services, which do run via the West Suburban line through University. At one point it was suggested to divert these to the Camp Hill stations however that plan was not at all popular for Hereford line users and may have been abandoned due to local pressure (as mentioned before, I'm not entirely clued up on the development of the Camp Hill services), perhaps @The Planner or @Sprinter107 may know more.

Ah, I was indeed confusing the Hereford and Shrewsbury services, it does make a lot more sense now - thanks. I wonder how the turn around at Kings Norton will be managed, given it is currently down to 2 platforms.

 

[The Planner]

Camphill services are expected to be Shrewsbury's extended with 196's.

Will they be diverted via the Camp Hill Route or a hook shaped extension with the service running via University, New Street and out to Kings Norton? Effectively almost a Salisbury Six?

If it is an extension of the Shrewsbury services then there will be no diversions required - the service will head from New St out to Proof House Jct then down the Camp Hill before reversing at Kings Norton. I think you may be getting confused with the Hereford services, which do run via the West Suburban line through University. At one point it was suggested to divert these to the Camp Hill stations however that plan was not at all popular for Hereford line users and may have been abandoned due to local pressure (as mentioned before, I'm not entirely clued up on the development of the Camp Hill services), perhaps @The Planner or @Sprinter107 may know more.

Latest I have heard is self contained New St Kings Norton shuttles. Shrewsbury is no longer on the table.

 

[Pokelet]

172/0/1 with Worcester crews? Seeing as they sign the traction and route?

 

[Sprinter107]

If it is an extension of the Shrewsbury services then there will be no diversions required - the service will head from New St out to Proof House Jct then down the Camp Hill before reversing at Kings Norton. I think you may be getting confused with the Hereford services, which do run via the West Suburban line through University. At one point it was suggested to divert these to the Camp Hill stations however that plan was not at all popular for Hereford line users and may have been abandoned due to local pressure (as mentioned before, I'm not entirely clued up on the development of the Camp Hill services), perhaps @The Planner or @Sprinter107 may know more.

Funnily enough, myself and some colleagues were discussing that very subject yesterday, but none of us are sure whether those stations will be served by an extension of another service, or if itll be a self contained shuttle.

 

[Mordac]

I thought the plan was to extend the Hereford services to King's Norton ( ie: Bromsgrove-King's Norton-University-New Street-Camp Hill-King's Norton-reverse), given that they have something like a 50-minute turnaround at New Street?

Will this involve returning the island platform at Kings Norton to use?

 

[ABB125]

Will this involve returning the island platform at Kings Norton to use?

I think that may be the long-term plan, but initially the service will reverse in platform 2 (I think).

 

[Class172]

Funnily enough, myself and some colleagues were discussing that very subject yesterday, but none of us are sure whether those stations will be served by an extension of another service, or if itll be a self contained shuttle.

Good to know that we're all on the same page of not knowing!

I think that may be the long-term plan, but initially the service will reverse in platform 2 (I think).

Yes, they will use platform 4 (currently used by southbound Cross-city services) to reverse, though there won't be much time to do so with the 4tph Cross-city and multiple XC services that traverse the junction east of the platforms. I think I recall the plan doesn't work in the pre-covid era of 6tph for Cross-city.

 

[The Planner]

Good to know that we're all on the same page https://grid.iamkate.com/ not

Good to know that we're all on the same page of not knowing!

Its a self contained shuttle.

 

[newtownmgr]

Camp Hill services will be Worcester work from what we’ve been told, but not sure how it will work as yet.

 

[Pokelet]

What's the booked work along there now? ECS moves? I know a good few years ago the first WOS - Birmingham on a Saturday went that way (effectively creating a Worcester-Hereford via BHM service as there was only a few minutes dwell time) and a similar mid afternoon service that bounced back to Bromsgrove and back to BHM before going back to Hereford.

 

[JonathanH]

What's the booked work along there now? ECS moves? I know a good few years ago the first WOS - Birmingham on a Saturday went that way (effectively creating a Worcester-Hereford via BHM service as there was only a few minutes dwell time) and a similar mid afternoon service that bounced back to Bromsgrove and back to BHM before going back to Hereford.

Today, the only passenger train booked via Camp Hill appears to be 1V02 0542 Birmingham New Street to Cardiff Central.

Three CrossCountry departures tomorrow
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...09/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt
and six on Monday
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...10/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt

Seemingly no WMT trains in service at the moment although from the timetable change the 1M05 0836 Great Malvern to Birmingham New Street is booked that way on weekdays.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L24576/2021-05-18/detailed

 

[swt_passenger]

Today, the only passenger train booked via Camp Hill appears to be 1V02 0542 Birmingham New Street to Cardiff Central.

Three CrossCountry departures tomorrow
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...09/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt
and six on Monday
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...10/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt

Seemingly no WMT trains in service at the moment although from the timetable change the 1M05 0836 Great Malvern to Birmingham New Street is booked that way on weekdays.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L24576/2021-05-18/detailed

Presumably there’d be a good few Manchester to Bristol XC when/if their full timetable is restored?

 

[ABB125]

Presumably there’d be a good few Manchester to Bristol XC when/if their full timetable is restored?

Yes, the Manchester-Bristols typically go via Camp Hill, especially in the southbound direction, as the reversing move required at New Street is rather operationally inconvenient. Northbound, reversing should be fine, but they tend to go via Camp Hill anyway.

Obviously not in the current timetable though!

 

[Kite159]

In the December 2019 timetable there was a Worcester Shrub Hill - Birmingham New Street service around 15;40 which went via the camp hill line, before forming a train towards Hereford near enough straight away after its arrival. One of the few times a 172 was booked to serve Hereford. (Used to then form a Hereford - Dorridge via Snow Hill service)

 

[warwickshire]

Observed this afternoon at tyseley Depot in Birmingham around 1630 hours was 172102 now with 170104 .
So 172102 has now arrived from ilford London and is now with west Midlands railways at tyseley. So leaves just 172103 and 172101 to arrive.

 

[Sprinter107]

In the December 2019 timetable there was a Worcester Shrub Hill - Birmingham New Street service around 15;40 which went via the camp hill line, before forming a train towards Hereford near enough straight away after its arrival. One of the few times a 172 was booked to serve Hereford. (Used to then form a Hereford - Dorridge via Snow Hill service)

It was a Saturdays only service. It started from Shrub Hill an ran via Camp Hill to New Street, and as you say, more or less departed immediately for Hereford upon arrival. It was booked a pair of 172/2s. From Hereford it made the 19.11 all stations to Dorridge, then making a 21.34 back to Great Malvern.

 

[Pokelet]

That had been a regular service for many years prior to the Bromsgrove electrification. Before 172's it was 150 operated.

The Lifford curve/ Camp Hill is really useful in times of disruption. I commuted BHM-Worcs for about 8 years and would be diverted via Camp Hill northbound a few times a year, Southbound happened twice (both due to fatalities at Bromsgrove) and the train I was on was able to divert Camp Hill, loop back through BHM onto the Wolverhampton line as far a Smethwick and then onto the Snow Hill line via Kiddy.

 

[supervc-10]

Will they be diverted via the Camp Hill Route or a hook shaped extension with the service running via University, New Street and out to Kings Norton? Effectively almost a Salisbury Six?

What's a 'Salisbury Six'?

 

[fgwrich]

What's a 'Salisbury Six'?

The Salisbury 6 is the SWT service to Romsey, which runs in a 6 shape :

Salisbury, Romsey, Southampton, Eastleigh, Chandlers Ford, Romsey.

In this case, I’d confused my Hereford with the Shrewsbury’s, and thought they would run the service from Hereford, through Kings Norton, University, New Street, Camp Hill and back to Kings Norton.

 

[supervc-10]

That makes sense! Thanks for explaining @fgwrich

 

[warwickshire]

172102 is at tyseley lmd Depot.
With west Midlands trains branding on its sides. Decals named logo branding only.
No change to external livery also.
Clearly visible at the momment from the mainline

 

[CR165022]

172101 & 103 are on their way to Tyseley with 172003

 

[43102EMR]

WMR have just confirmed the transfer is temporary until further notice - but as we all know, things change...

 

[warwickshire]

This evening have just noticed and seen
172104 at Rowley Regis with temporary placed west Midlands railways stickers i.e. branding over the Chiltern railways branding.
And 172104 was in service two car only on the 1845 Kidderminster to Stratford upon Avon service headcode 2S78.
It would appear and has they can also be used on the snow Hill lines as well as Hereford to Birmingham New Street services.
Any information and further details would be appreciated as observed today it would be to appear this has changed.
Unless it only occurs as required

 

[newtownmgr]

Initially they were to be used just on Herefords, but after an agreement was reached regarding what training was required it was decided that they will be pooled with the 172/0’s for diagramming purposes & all depots that sign 172’s will recieve the traction brief. A common sense approach to be honest to allow full flexibility. Not sure when the rest will be in service.

 

[warwickshire]

Update further Saturday 10th July 2021.
With temporary west Midlands trains branding on the side. 172102 was with 172007 on the 1150 Birmingham new Street to Hereford service today.
Nice to see two different livery and also a ex lorol 172 with a chiltern 172 together both 1720 and 1721 classes together.
So that is now 172104 and 172102 in traffic with west Midlands railways.
Train passed through bromsgrove just ahead and in front off the 37611 and 350113 move to long marston.

 

[TrainTrackJack]

Here is 172102 with 172007 at Malvern Link at 16:42, working the 15:50 BHM - HFD, my photograph.

 

[WillPS]

Initially they were to be used just on Herefords, but after an agreement was reached regarding what training was required it was decided that they will be pooled with the 172/0’s for diagramming purposes & all depots that sign 172’s will recieve the traction brief. A common sense approach to be honest to allow full flexibility. Not sure when the rest will be in service.

Out of interest, what are the differences between the ex-LO and Chiltern 172s from a driver's perspective?

I thought LO were forced to keep their spec fairly 'stock' because of the short amount of time they were leasing them for.

 

[43102EMR]

Out of interest, what are the differences between the ex-LO and Chiltern 172s from a driver's perspective?

I thought LO were forced to keep their spec fairly 'stock' because of the short amount of time they were leasing them for.

I spoke to a driver yesterday who ran 172102 to Hereford from New Street, and they told me that it was more or less the same, it’s just that the buttons are in different places. Otherwise, still the same driving experience as a /0, /2 or /3.

 

[warwickshire]

Out of interest, what are the differences between the ex-LO and Chiltern 172s from a driver's perspective?

I thought LO were forced to keep their spec fairly 'stock' because of the short amount of time they were leasing them for.

Also really only difference from very good sources and friends off mine chilterns had atp fitted for the chiltern lines ie advanced train protection system.
Whereas the lorol ones didn't.
Otherwise the same.