Tesco to increase its use of rail freight

[Jozhua]

I find it kind of crazy looking at the M1 and still seeing so many long distance trucks. You see big brands with the extra tall trailers for inter-warehouse distribution - I think a lot of that could also move to rail should the warehouses be sited correctly.

Oh dear. I can see a lot of the forum's "experts" in logistics being very unhappy to hear that after all the ink spilled in telling us that it is impossible for a modern supply chain to use rail to a greater extent than currently.

Indeed it seems so!

The Tesco supply chain is specifically designed to accommodate rail hauls - this is expansion of their existing modern supply chain.

I think there has to be an element of different supply chains if rail is to be used - rail might not be competitive on like for like journeys, but a supply chain designed with rail as an integral part seems like a competitive proposition. This seems like what Tesco has done. I would be interested to see what flows Tesco uses rail freight for!

 

[Mikey C]

I find it kind of crazy looking at the M1 and still seeing so many long distance trucks. You see big brands with the extra tall trailers for inter-warehouse distribution - I think a lot of that could also move to rail should the warehouses be sited correctly.

Indeed it seems so!

I think there has to be an element of different supply chains if rail is to be used - rail might not be competitive on like for like journeys, but a supply chain designed with rail as an integral part seems like a competitive proposition. This seems like what Tesco has done. I would be interested to see what flows Tesco uses rail freight for!

Chiller wagons to transport fruit and veg from Spain is an excellent use of rail. 15 weekly trains from Spain to Barking

 

[WestRiding]

Chiller wagons to transport fruit and veg from Spain is an excellent use of rail. 15 weekly trains from Spain to Barking

Got to say, its looking good for rail freight in general. This is just more excellent news.

 

[Bald Rick]

I find it kind of crazy looking at the M1 and still seeing so many long distance trucks

How do you know they are long distance? Most aren’t.

 

[Jozhua]

Chiller wagons to transport fruit and veg from Spain is an excellent use of rail. 15 weekly trains from Spain to Barking

Happy to hear the Eurotunnel is in use more now for rail freight!

It makes a lot of sense, freight does not need to be accompanied in the same way on rail. In theory you could drive a loco from the French side, uncouple it and send it back (perhaps with another load), with the driver never having to leave the cab.

Even if you don't do that, you still vastly reduce the test+trace/border overhead.

With less Eurostar/Shuttle services running, it makes a lot of sense to utilise it even more now.

The channel tunnel is a great example of the kind of strategic infrastructure we need more of - it continues to pay dividends in terms of its value, even at a time of limited passenger movement between the countries.

 

[plugwash]

It's just a great shame to me that they decided in the end not to build a connection to European loading gauge between HS1 and HS2.

 

[zwk500]

It's just a great shame to me that they decided in the end not to build a connection to European loading gauge between HS1 and HS2.

Why? Freight on HS2 would destroy capacity for the fast trains and the Classic WCML is W10/12 cleared. You get far, far more out of both lines by separating the fastest trains from everything else.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Sorry. But this is sooooooo obviously Tesco!
View attachment 103764

I don't think I would have made the connection if it didn't say 'Tesco' in small print. I suspect that, in the absence of any clues, in order to realise it's Tesco, you would have to be the sort of person who instinctively notices fonts - which probably not everyone does.

I don't think Tesco were trying to hide that it was them. Most likely, it's a case of, the people who design these logos forgetting that most of the public don't spend most of their working days thinking about logos and therefore connections that look obvious to logo designers will be completely missed by much of the general public. I seem to recall a recent discussion on railforums where the same issue came up in relation to the London NorthWestern Railway logo.

I would further hypothesize, that since it seems the word 'Tesco' was added to later versions, that was probably in response to various people within Tesco realising that - astonishingly - not everyone recognised who it was from the font.

 

[WestRiding]

Why? Freight on HS2 would destroy capacity for the fast trains and the Classic WCML is W10/12 cleared. You get far, far more out of both lines by separating the fastest trains from everything else.

Not at 2am in the morning it wouldn't. I agree, the HS2 and HS1 should be utilised for freight 'out of hours' when not affected by engineering works. Though it'll never be a thing as it won't be standard railway signalling compatible.

 

[takno]

I don't think I would have made the connection if it didn't say 'Tesco' in small print. I suspect that, in the absence of any clues, in order to realise it's Tesco, you would have to be the sort of person who instinctively notices fonts - which probably not everyone does.

I don't think Tesco were trying to hide that it was them. Most likely, it's a case of, the people who design these logos forgetting that most of the public don't spend most of their working days thinking about logos and therefore connections that look obvious to logo designers will be completely missed by much of the general public. I seem to recall a recent discussion on railforums where the same issue came up in relation to the London NorthWestern Railway logo.

I would further hypothesize, that since it seems the word 'Tesco' was added to later versions, that was probably in response to various people within Tesco realising that - astonishingly - not everyone recognised who it was from the font.

Tesco do loads of stuff like this. It's one of the most recognisable logos in the UK, and whether you spotted it or not, the vast majority of people it was aimed at will have got it just fine.

 

[Pinus contorta]

This might sound daft, and feel free to shoot me down if it does. When you observe the train flying past on the WCML at line speed and the logo image passes through your eyes 20 to 30 + times, the lettering scrolls through and you may interpret the 'advert' and hence the lettering differently than if you were merely observing the single box from a photo in #20. Specifically look at the shape of the letter L.

I don't know if the Tesco logo designers did this deliberately?

 

[Bald Rick]

Not at 2am in the morning it wouldn't.

I’m reasonably sure that HS2 will be keeping something close to Shinkansen hours, and be shut at 0200.

 

[DerekC]

Why? Freight on HS2 would destroy capacity for the fast trains and the Classic WCML is W10/12 cleared. You get far, far more out of both lines by separating the fastest trains from everything else.

In a sensible world HS2 money would have gone into a strategic freight route like that proposed by Central Railway back in about 2003. It's been clear for a long time that the passenger-carrying value of rail is marginal outside major agglomerations and likely to be undermined by automotive developments. The energy efficiency "edge" in terms of freight is much larger. Covid has simply kicked the process along. Does anybody now have confidence that HS2 will really fill 18 trains per hour out of Euston?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Does anybody now have confidence that HS2 will really fill 18 trains per hour out of Euston?

Yes.

 

[WestRiding]

Yes.

A train leaving Euston HS2 every 3 minutes....? (just checking). It seems crazy that these will be filled.

 

[Hadders]

HS2 is being built to accommodate 50 years worth of growth, it's not all about what happens on day 1.

 

[The Planner]

HS2 is being built to accommodate 50 years worth of growth, it's not all about what happens on day 1.

This, people can't quite grasp that fact.

 

[Mikey C]

HS2 is being built to accommodate 50 years worth of growth, it's not all about what happens on day 1.

And will allow more space for freight on the WCML

 

[The Planner]

In a sensible world HS2 money would have gone into a strategic freight route like that proposed by Central Railway back in about 2003. It's been clear for a long time that the passenger-carrying value of rail is marginal outside major agglomerations and likely to be undermined by automotive developments. The energy efficiency "edge" in terms of freight is much larger. Covid has simply kicked the process along. Does anybody now have confidence that HS2 will really fill 18 trains per hour out of Euston?

Only in a world where investors don't want a return on their cash. It came up with the same old Woodhead stuff, Grand Central, 4 tracking the Chilterns and around the M25. It would have got just as much fierce resistance as HS2 does. It wanted diesel through the Channel Tunnel and was only expecting Class 6 60mph timings.

Have a read through some of their route assumptions. It was going up Miles Platting with an Ordsall flyover, single track Woodhead, exclusive use of the slow lines to Syston, "modest" track and station relocations. The on the inside of the M25 until Leatherhead. It also reckoned they could have 4 hour white periods for maintenance. You get more sensible stuff being proposed on here!

Central Railway

Wayback Machine

 

[DynamicSpirit]

A train leaving Euston HS2 every 3 minutes....? (just checking). It seems crazy that these will be filled.

Crazy? Not when you factor in that HS2 will eventually absorb the vast majority of long-distance passengers who currently use any of Euston, St. Pancras or Kings Cross, plus a few Marylebone-Birmingham people. That's already not that far off 18 trains an hour. Add in that the faster journey times will attract more people who currently drive plus new journeys by people wouldn't have travelled at all on current journey times, and then factor in the long-term (50 years or so) growth that other people in this thread have pointed out... And after that, allow for the new interchange opportunities at Old Oak Common, which will attract yet more people. I actually wouldn't be surprised if 30 years or so after opening, people are complaining that we should've built it with more capacity.

(The only potential iffiness is that I'm assuming we do build phase 2. If we don't, that'll depress passenger numbers quite a bit).

 

[Western Sunset]

I'm sorry but "LESS CO2" does not make me instantly think Tesco.

It does me, though. The "L" is similar to a "T" and get rid of the "2"..... Plus font is identical to Tesco.

One I never got, from many years ago, was "Now for Britain itself". Of course, it was promoting "Elf" petrol - funny what one remembers...

 

[Class 170101]

This, people can't quite grasp that fact.

And unfortunately the politicans neither.

And will allow more space for freight on the WCML.

More space on WCML South, I agree with you, but HS2 doesn't get you to Felixstowe, Southampton or the WCML north of Crewe to Scotland nor through Manchester Piccadilly so I fail to see where the freight capacity increase is coming from unless we believe that covid will see a need for fewer passenger trains on the rest of the network at all times of the day to allow for more freight trains.

 

[Dr Hoo]

More space on WCML South, I agree with you, but HS2 doesn't get you to Felixstowe, Southampton or the WCML north of Crewe to Scotland nor through Manchester Piccadilly so I fail to see where the freight capacity increase is coming from unless we believe that covid will see a need for fewer passenger trains on the rest of the network at all times of the day to allow for more freight trains.

This is getting rather off the Tesco-specific thread but there are various other schemes to deal with issues elsewhere.

Recently (or in progress or under development) we are seeing train lengthening at Southampton, Werrington (following Joint Line upgrade), East-West Rail, Ely, Ipswich Chord and so on. On the terminal front it is all about new sites contiguous with warehousing like iPort, East Midlands Gateway, Four Ashes, DIRFT extension, Mossend, etc.

(Yes, there will no doubt be a need for further schemes such as overtaking capability on the northern WCML too.)

 

[Trainguy12345]

Interesting article in The Guardian newspaper at:

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...es-stay-stocked-despite-supply-chain-problems

"Tesco is to increase its use of trains to distribute products by almost 40% as its boss credited investment in rail freight for helping to keep its shelves stocked during the lorry driver crisis.

Murphy said the supermarket aimed to deliver 90,000 40ft containers of goods a year to its warehouses via trains by the end of 2021, up from about 65,000 at present. The tactic comes amid a battle for lorry drivers that led Tesco to offer new sign-ups a £1,000 incentive this summer."

I mean I have seen quite some Tesco wagons lately

 

[Class 170101]

This is getting rather off the Tesco-specific thread but there are various other schemes to deal with issues elsewhere.

Recently (or in progress or under development) we are seeing train lengthening at Southampton, Werrington (following Joint Line upgrade), East-West Rail, Ely, Ipswich Chord and so on. On the terminal front it is all about new sites contiguous with warehousing like iPort, East Midlands Gateway, Four Ashes, DIRFT extension, Mossend, etc.

(Yes, there will no doubt be a need for further schemes such as overtaking capability on the northern WCML too.)

Agreed, my point is without schemes away from HS2, including the ones you highlighted and others, it doesn't matter whether its Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys, Morrisions or anyone else you care to mention without those schemes HS2 by itself doesn't get you more Freight space except between Willesden and Basford Hall.

 

[yorksrob]

Whatever one thinks of it (and I think the rail haulage is excellent news), "LessCo2" is an excellent pun.

If be tempted to shop there myself if they sold the right beer.

 

[zwk500]

Agreed, my point is without schemes away from HS2, including the ones you highlighted and others, it doesn't matter whether its Tesco, Asda, Sainsburys, Morrisions or anyone else you care to mention without those schemes HS2 by itself doesn't get you more Freight space except between Willesden and Basford Hall.

But then you end up in the circle of 'hs2 is pointless without other schemes which are pointless without hs2'.
At some point you have to break the circle to make progress. Build one and it makes the other more worthwhile.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Perhaps people may recall that initially TESCO were reluctant to emblazon their containers with their name, relying instead on "Less CO2 Rail".

You are confusing some marketing people trying to be clever with wordplay, and possibly being a bit too clever, with deliberately trying to hide something or mislead.

To me Less Co2 immediately says Tesco but then I’m aware of the connection. I did once have a chat with a passing jogger who was asking which train I was waiting to photograph and we got onto the Tesco Express. He had some knowledge of the railway but wasn’t an enthusiast and he thought the Less Co2 train was to do with nuclear power, i.e. a greener type of energy, and hadn’t connected LessCo with Tesco.

 

[xotGD]

You are confusing some marketing people trying to be clever with wordplay, and possibly being a bit too clever, with deliberately trying to hide something or mislead.

To me Less Co2 immediately says Tesco but then I’m aware of the connection. I did once have a chat with a passing jogger who was asking which train I was waiting to photograph and we got onto the Tesco Express. He had some knowledge of the railway but wasn’t an enthusiast and he thought the Less Co2 train was to do with nuclear power, i.e. a greener type of energy, and hadn’t connected LessCo with Tesco.

It isn't pronounced 'Lessco'. So it doesn't sound like Tesco.

 

[Bertie the bus]

It isn't pronounced 'Lessco'. So it doesn't sound like Tesco.

It is wordplay as I said. There is obviously an intent to link LessCo with Tesco. It doesn't matter whether you say CO2 as C O two, the point of it was to be a direct link to Tesco.