TfW 175 shortages

[Jez]

To be honest I agree, the fact they managed to run every service from Manchester today is amazing considering virtually all of the 175 fleet is out of service.

As awful as the Sprinters are its better than a cancelled service with no alternative. And a few of them were 158s which are just as good as a 175 usually. By cancelling services where there are plenty of other alternatives (e,g Birmingham-Wolverhampton) or where they are lightly loaded and road transport can easily be provided (Milford Haven) I think they did quite well really given the circumstances.

 

[DelW]

There may well be a reason for it, but that doesn’t change the fact it’s a disgraceful service today.

What would you expect to happen when the main fleet on a route has an emergency withdrawal for safety checks? There isn't a strategic reserve fleet sitting around "just in case".

Such things have happened on occasions over many years, at least as far back as Glasgow electrics in 1960. I think similar cases affected various steam classes as well.

 

[L401CJF]

I agree with the other comments here - saying its a disgrace is a bit harsh.

These things do happen occasionally - it wasnt long ago Merseyrail stopped half their 507/8 fleet due to wheelbearing problems. That caused a hugely reduced service for a few weeks.

I think its been well organised, keeping the disruption to a minimum and is nothing short of a miracle they managed to run what TFW have with such short notice.

It was either have all the 175 booked marches services ran by sprinters - not ideal - or just cancel diagrams booked as 175. The best of a bad situation.

Last I heard the plan was to get each of the stopped 175s to Chester for inspection and action to be taken. Once each unit is cleared it'll be returned to traffic.

 

[Trainspotter37]

Hi,

I suspect I may have missed something here, so apologies in advance, but can anyone explain the recent chronic shortages of Class 175s on the South Wales to Manchester services please? This does not appear to have any relevance to the introduction of Mk 4 sets that I can see.

MTIA


Moony

Hi there, I know what you are talking about exactly. There has seemingly been an increase in the number of sprinters used for services on the Welsh Marches Line. This may be because Transport for Wales are not far from getting rid of 175s forever. Recently there was an accident in one, involving a claimed ‘thermal incident’. I don’t know if this has made TfW unsure how many they want in service, but it is not long until they lease expires.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Hi there, I know what you are talking about exactly. There has seemingly been an increase in the number of sprinters used for services on the Welsh Marches Line. This may be because Transport for Wales are not far from getting rid of 175s forever. Recently there was an accident in one, involving a claimed ‘thermal incident’. I don’t know if this has made TfW unsure how many they want in service, but it is not long until they lease expires.

The 175s will still be in until December as 197s won't be in mainstream service until then. Since CAF took over Chester depot that has meant that 175 maintenance has reduced, but unless any more thermal incidents happen, I can see them continuing for a good while yet.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Perhaps you’d like to tell us what you’d have done given there’s a large chunk of the 175 fleet stopped, rather than going for internet hyperbole.

So condescending, and all because none of you actually read what I’ve said. It’s a comment based on the state of the service rather than aimed at anyone in particular such as TfW. Aka I was saying is a disgrace than in Britain we have most from 27 long distance units stopped due to them setting on fire, and tiny 80s commuter trains pulling the services. It’s a disgrace that the 175s are catching on fire in the first place.

I am not saying someone is to blame, or something should have been done, I’m saying whether it can be helped or not, the situation of 9/12 services being Sprinters is bad and embarrassing. Something can be a disgrace without the situation having been avoidable or someone at fault you know. The fact a cruddy situation is not the fault of staff does not make it less of a cruddy situation. My housemate was crammed into the single seat behind the toilet for her trip home to Manchester, and telling her there’s no other option as 175s are on fire isn’t going to make her, a normal passenger, sit up and go ohh okay in that case it’s all good. I stand by calling it a disgrace. If you think the situation is anything else I fail to believe you.

 

[tomuk]

What would you expect to happen when the main fleet on a route has an emergency withdrawal for safety checks?

The issue is that they aren't having 'safety checks' the five 175s that are in traffic are the last five to have had an underframe and engine clean. The others will go back into service once cleaned or alternatively inspected to prove they don't need cleaning. The company has create its own mess by not servicing the trains correctly.

 

[L401CJF]

So condescending, and all because none of you actually read what I’ve said. It’s a comment based on the state of the service rather than aimed at anyone in particular such as TfW. Aka I was saying is a disgrace than in Britain we have most from 27 long distance units stopped due to them setting on fire, and tiny 80s commuter trains pulling the services. It’s a disgrace that the 175s are catching on fire in the first place.

I am not saying someone is to blame, or something should have been done, I’m saying whether it can be helped or not, the situation of 9/12 services being Sprinters is bad and embarrassing. Something can be a disgrace without the situation having been avoidable or someone at fault you know. The fact a cruddy situation is not the fault of staff does not make it less of a cruddy situation. My housemate was crammed into the single seat behind the toilet for her trip home to Manchester, and telling her there’s no other option as 175s are on fire isn’t going to make her, a normal passenger, sit up and go ohh okay in that case it’s all good. I stand by calling it a disgrace. If you think the situation is anything else I fail to believe you.

I don't think it's a disgrace at all. This sort of thing happens all the time not just on the railway. When I worked on the buses we had fleets stopped on a few occasions because one or more of the same make had been involved in a fire. My dad's BMW was recalled last year because of a fault which under certain conditions could result in a fire. 737 MAX aircraft were grounded because of a design flaw which sent them plummeting into the ground just to name a few.

Is it better to pull a fleet temporarily to inspect and take steps to resolve the problem, or potentially have a full and standing train burst into flames in a remote location endangering lives? A Sprinter is an inconvenience, but the best of a bad situation.

If I'm reading the system right (it's new and not sure how to use it yet), I can see 9 175s allocated today.

 

[Topological]

Is anyone able to see which diagrams the 9 175s are on? Realtimetrains is not showing what is on either the 13:30 or 15:30 from Manchester.

9 is a good recovery just over a day after the whole fleet was withdrawn.

I would also not call the situation a disgrace, but there can be no doubt a 150 with no luggage space is not right for the Manchester diagrams. Middle doors are not a problem, but having cases strewn everywhere is not good when capacity is already limited by the lack of any 3rd carriage.

 

[anthony263]

Ones not long left Pyle around 6 minutes ago heading towards Cardiff if that helps

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

175002 has been withdrawn from service. Parked up at Holyhead before returning to the leasing company

Apparently the last TFW service it worked was the 21:36 Crewe-Holyhead last night, coupled to 175009

Is anyone able to see which diagrams the 9 175s are on?

175004+175002 are on 1V94, the 0805 Hollyhead(HHD) to Cardiff Central service. 002 was empty from HHD to Bangor. No staff on board and the doors remained shut at bangor.

I couldn't hear the motor running in the rear coach of 002. Pulling out of Llanfairpwll, it felt like we were towing 002. I have no idea what will happen at Chester, where the train usually reverses.

 

[L401CJF]

Having a second look, it appears its 7/8 rather than 9 out. Looks like one was just moved to Chester depot for inspection rather than in service.

 

[Geeves]

001, North Wales Coast
002 - Being dragged by 004 from Holyhead to Canton as per Andrew above
011 was at Shrewsbury, now back at Chester

106,108, 116 Picc Swansea Camarthen

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

Casual trainspotting update, I've now seen all the 175s except for:

175104
175105
175111. Out of service. Spare parts donor.
175113

The informal rule is I don't go out of my way to see a train.

Relived the 175s are being stood down for safety inspections. I was starting to be very concerned.

 

[Scottish-Exile]

175004+175002 are on 1V94 the 0805 Hollyhead(HHD) to Cardiff Central service. 002 was empty from HHD to Bangor. No staff on board and the doors remained shut at bangor.

I couldn't hear the motor running in the rear coach of 002. Pulling out of Llanfairpwll, it felt like we were towing 002. I have no idea what will happen at Chester, where the train usually reverses.

If anyone at Chester or further down the route could confirm if 002 is still on this service post Chester, I'd be grateful for an update.

 

[_toommm_]

If anyone at Chester or further down the route could confirm if 002 is still on this service post Chester, I'd be grateful for an update.

Looks to be according to RTT. I imagine 004 will shove 002 from Chester to Cardiff, and it will be deposited in Canton.

EDIT: My assumptions look to be correct as 004 goes out on its own again as 5W95 to Cardiff Central, then 1W95 to Holyhead.

 

[Scottish-Exile]

Looks to be according to RTT. I imagine 004 will shove 002 from Chester to Cardiff, and it will be deposited in Canton.

The plan is to then get 002 to Landore. I have a vested interest in knowing that the unit is definitely en-route to Cardiff, and not dropped off at Chester.

 

[_toommm_]

The plan is to then get 002 to Landore. I have a vested interest in knowing that the unit is definitely en-route to Cardiff, and not dropped off at Chester.

I can’t imagine them dropping it off at Chester at the minute as it will block one of the through platforms, unless they can’t get it moving with 004 shoving it.

 

[el_lnrd]

Is anyone able to see which diagrams the 9 175s are on? Realtimetrains is not showing what is on either the 13:30 or 15:30 from Manchester.

9 is a good recovery just over a day after the whole fleet was withdrawn.

I would also not call the situation a disgrace, but there can be no doubt a 150 with no luggage space is not right for the Manchester diagrams. Middle doors are not a problem, but having cases strewn everywhere is not good when capacity is already limited by the lack of any 3rd carriage.

Agreed 9 is a good recovery and the substitution of other stock at such short notice with little cancellations.
But west wales has seemingly payed a high price for the core routes. Today it seems that Crosskeys Newport is also impacted by service reduction.

Nevertheless, the sprinters, particularly the older ones shouldn't be here anymore and its more the fact that TFW has not been able to replace them before which is a disgrace... Then its not particularly their fault in that case, apart from sticking with parallel multi-fleet introductions... In France or Germany there are no such use of poor (old, noisy, smelly, non-air conditioned) quality rolling stock (regardless of how many refurbishments).

 

[Geeves]

Edit from before, 002 does seem to have come off at Chester. 1V94 left 14L

 

[_toommm_]

Edit from before, 002 does seem to have come off at Chester. 1V94 left 14L

It’ll be interesting to see how it keeps to time, if it’s as reported with 002 not having any power.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

How very interesting, potential for 002 to return to service to cover then?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I remember when Arriva withdrew them temporarily as well.

 

[Scottish-Exile]

Just watched on Railcam, and it was 2 x 2cars leaving Shrewsbury so 002 is still attached to 004 to make up 1V94. Again, any confirmed sightings/info and I would be most grateful.

 

[Liverpool 507]

My train to work this morning (1H84 0843 Llandudno - Manchester Airport) which is a booked 175/1 was formed of 197017 to Chester, then 158820 from there to the Airport. I take my hat off to TfW for continuing to run a normal service as best they can with the resources available to them.

 

[Jez]

Ones not long left Pyle around 6 minutes ago heading towards Cardiff if that helps

Also seen a 158 on the 11xx from Neath-Manchester and a 150 on the 12xx from Neath- Cardiff so we can eliminate them as being 175s.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Confirmed, just passed me at Hereford. Front 2 (002) locked out and front engine of 002 isolated.

 

[Topological]

Also seen a 158 on the 11xx from Neath-Manchester and a 150 on the 12xx from Neath- Cardiff so we can eliminate them as being 175s.

That 11xx from Neath spent 8 minutes at Shrewsbury and left 17 late. Is that a swap? It is getting dangerously close to the spin round at Wilmslow threshold.

 

[Jez]

Seen a 3 car 175 on the 1612 Neath to Cardiff Central. Unfortunately don't know the number as I wasn't close enough to the railway line.

Edit - according to RTT it is 175106

That 11xx from Neath spent 8 minutes at Shrewsbury and left 17 late. Is that a swap? It is getting dangerously close to the spin round at Wilmslow threshold.

Looks like it made it to Manchester at 1524 so just enough time for it to depart just a minute late for the return trip. They did quite well to recover the time there.

 

[JakeMurphy]

When do we think the situation will
Improve ?