TfW 175 shortages

[craigybagel]

I've always been pleased to see one turn up on my train when I'm in the Wales and borders area, I find the interiors very pleasant and comfortable as long as they're not overcrowded.

It's a pity some of the two car sets couldn't have stayed on as the Heart of Wales fleet rather than keeping the even older (and much more cramped) 153s, but I assume the hydraulic transmission and/or gearing would be unsuitable for a low speed service with lots of stops.

153s have hydraulic transmission too.

I assume this comment was made based on the issues 170s had when used on similar services - allegedly they weren't terribly efficient and it required extra maintenance to keep them going.

Personally I reckon 175s would have faired better on the HOWL. They change into direct drive at a lower speed than 170s to (~62mph in full power in notch 4, which is too high for the HOWL, but it's ~ 57mph in notch 3 and ~52mph in notch 2. HOWL is varies between 50 and 60mph, mostly at 55mph. It has has the higher speed runs at either end to shake out the cobwebs - 75mph between Llanelli and Swansea and 90mph between Craven Arms and Shrewsbury.

I think the real deal breaker for keeping them on HOWL is the fact you wouldn't need enough for the whole fleet, so you'd end up with an awkward microfleet situation - which is not ideal, especially with a fleet that as the recent issues have shown, requires careful handling and maintenance.

 

[Philip]

Is Longsight a suitable depot to provide the same level of maintenance that they received at Chester? I know it's Alstom but with 390s and other EMUs to look after, is the depot big enough and with the relevant training to take on full-time maintenance of an extra 27 trains?

 

[Dai Corner]

I think the real deal breaker for keeping them on HOWL is the fact you wouldn't need enough for the whole fleet, so you'd end up with an awkward microfleet situation - which is not ideal, especially with a fleet that as the recent issues have shown, requires careful handling and maintenance.

Won't the 153s be a HOWL microfleet anyway? They're more suitable for the line than 175s though.

 

[craigybagel]

Won't the 153s be a HOWL microfleet anyway? They're more suitable for the line than 175s though.

True, but it's a microfleet that's easier to maintain, and would almost certainly be going for scrap if not used there. The 175s have more more potential for transfer somewhere else - but that would probably be easier if it was the entire fleet and not just a portion.

 

[DelW]

I assume this comment was made based on the issues 170s had when used on similar services - allegedly they weren't terribly efficient and it required extra maintenance to keep them going.

Personally I reckon 175s would have faired better on the HOWL. They change into direct drive at a lower speed than 170s to (~62mph in full power in notch 4, which is too high for the HOWL, but it's ~ 57mph in notch 3 and ~52mph in notch 2. HOWL is varies between 50 and 60mph, mostly at 55mph. It has has the higher speed runs at either end to shake out the cobwebs - 75mph between Llanelli and Swansea and 90mph between Craven Arms and Shrewsbury.

I think the real deal breaker for keeping them on HOWL is the fact you wouldn't need enough for the whole fleet, so you'd end up with an awkward microfleet situation - which is not ideal, especially with a fleet that as the recent issues have shown, requires careful handling and maintenance.

It was the comments about the probable unsuitability of the 170s for HoWL services (which I recall they were proposed for at one time) that I was remembering. I was expecting the 175s to be even less suitable, but appreciate your detailed knowledge is from practical experience!

True, but it's a microfleet that's easier to maintain, and would almost certainly be going for scrap if not used there. The 175s have more more potential for transfer somewhere else - but that would probably be easier if it was the entire fleet and not just a portion.

There seems to be at least a possibility that all the 175s will go for scrap though. If so (and I guess we won't know for a while), then I'd rather TfW had kept a few 175/0s than a few 153s for the HoWL. Likely too late to change now though.

 

[Razorblades]

Is Longsight a suitable depot to provide the same level of maintenance that they received at Chester? I know it's Alstom but with 390s and other EMUs to look after, is the depot big enough and with the relevant training to take on full-time maintenance of an extra 27 trains?

LO used to look after the class and Alstom certainly has the expertise - with refreshers possibly required.

 

[Pinus contorta]

It was the comments about the probable unsuitability of the 170s for HoWL services (which I recall they were proposed for at one time) that I was remembering. I was expecting the 175s to be even less suitable, but appreciate your detailed knowledge is from practical experience!

There seems to be at least a possibility that all the 175s will go for scrap though. If so (and I guess we won't know for a while), then I'd rather TfW had kept a few 175/0s than a few 153s for the HoWL. Likely too late to change now though.

Are the 175s fitted out with (late) 1990's obsolete computers / software etc that can't be upgraded? Obviously I've never been near the cab of one so I don’t know.

Is that another cost, on top of the corrosion issues, that means they are likely to go for scrap rather than extending their useful life and going to another operator?

 

[Topological]

Went the other way this evening with the 22:18 from Cardiff to Carmarthen formed from 175108 instead of the pair of 153s that RTT said it was going to be. This was actually the same 175108 that had worked the 18:30 from Manchester so became an unexpected through service. Still had to spend 15 minutes on the platform at Cardiff while they decided 175108 could work the 22:18 to Carmarthen.

It was so nice having a 3-car 175 from Manchester this evening.

 

[43055]

This evening's 2005 Cardiff - Manchester is currently showing as 153926 on it's own. Still better than nothing turning up but I thought the 153/9's had to run with another unit?

Realtime Trains | 1W26 2005 Cardiff Central to Manchester Piccadilly | 11/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 1W26 2005 departure from Cardiff Central to Manchester Piccadilly on 11/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[AgeoftheTrain7]

This evening's 2005 Cardiff - Manchester is currently showing as 153926 on it's own. Still better than nothing turning up but I thought the 153/9's had to run with another unit?

Realtime Trains | 1W26 2005 Cardiff Central to Manchester Piccadilly | 11/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 1W26 2005 departure from Cardiff Central to Manchester Piccadilly on 11/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That often happens on RTT - the unit formation shows up as a single 153, but then a double turns up (normally a /9 and /3) so PRM compliancy is achieved.

Might change later on RTT as well if you keep an eye on it!

 

[Caaardiff]

This evening's 2005 Cardiff - Manchester is currently showing as 153926 on it's own. Still better than nothing turning up but I thought the 153/9's had to run with another unit?

Realtime Trains | 1W26 2005 Cardiff Central to Manchester Piccadilly | 11/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 1W26 2005 departure from Cardiff Central to Manchester Piccadilly on 11/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It's 5 hours away from when you posted. No doubt it'll change by the time it's due to go.

 

[animationmilo]

How many 175s are still out of service

 

[Jez]

That often happens on RTT - the unit formation shows up as a single 153, but then a double turns up (normally a /9 and /3) so PRM compliancy is achieved.

Might change later on RTT as well if you keep an eye on it!

Its showing as a 150 now. 150278

 

[DannyMich2018]

Its showing as a 150 now. 150278

I really wouldn't believe RTT too much. The other week we had a 180 from Leicester but RTT said it was a 222! Very often a service can be cancelled but RTT says still running.

 

[craigybagel]

I really wouldn't believe RTT too much. The other week we had a 180 from Leicester but RTT said it was a 222! Very often a service can be cancelled but RTT says still running.

In this case RTT was correct

 

[86206]

Quick 175 question from me....the unit that was slightly singed at Wilmslow where did it end up going for repairs?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

In this case RTT was correct

It often isn’t though, but it’s rarely acknowledged on here now, because panicked forum members will immediately attack anyone who dares criticise the platform, after forumers once complained about adverts on the site and the owner seemed to respond by pretty much warning that he might take the site down altogether.

That shut up complaints (probably as intended) but now regular users will have a go at anyone that dares moan when it gets things wrong because they’re scared too much criticism and they’ll lose it altogether That’s really bad if you ask me, but we’ll leave that for a more appropriate thread. To clarify, I do see RTT as an exceptionally valuable resource, I just refuse to deny it’s not infallible.

Where do we currently stand with 175s in service, withdrawn, and off leased please?

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Quick 175 question from me....the unit that was slightly singed at Wilmslow where did it end up going for repairs?

All 3 at Chester.

 

[DelW]

It often isn’t though, but it’s rarely acknowledged on here now, because panicked forum members will immediately attack anyone who dares criticise the platform, after forumers once complained about adverts on the site and the owner seemed to respond by pretty much warning that he might take the site down altogether.

That shut up complaints (probably as intended) but now regular users will have a go at anyone that dares moan when it gets things wrong because they’re scared too much criticism and they’ll lose it altogether That’s really bad if you ask me, but we’ll leave that for a more appropriate thread. To clarify, I do see RTT as an exceptionally valuable resource, I just refuse to deny it’s not infallible.

Where do we currently stand with 175s in service, withdrawn, and off leased please?

It's not RTT that gets things "wrong" (or in this case, puts up information that is subsequently changed), it's the internal industry system(s) that RTT reads its information from and makes it available to the public.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

BBC One - How to Fix a Railway

Going behind the scenes with Wales’s newest rail body.

www.bbc.co.uk

Appropriate timing (or not!) given the 175 shortages...

An interesting programme with a quirky commentary.
But it might as well have been called Cardiff Railways but for the brief shots of Bow Street station reopening and the inauguration of the 197s "up north".
It was best on the Valleys electrification project, which is otherwise little reported.

 

[Caaardiff]

All 3 at Chester.

175101 is at Arriva Crewe.

 

[DannyMich2018]

In this case RTT was correct

That's good then.
We are going to Chester for a few days in a few weeks so hoping to see some 175s and hopefully a few 197s too. I regularly travel on 180s but don't think I've ever ridden a 175 so be nice to catch on from Crewe to Chester.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

That's good then.
We are going to Chester for a few days in a few weeks so hoping to see some 175s and hopefully a few 197s too. I regularly travel on 180s but don't think I've ever ridden a 175 so be nice to catch on from Crewe to Chester.

It's usually 153s on the Crewe Chester shuttle, theres only a couple of 175 diagrams Crewe - Holyhead or early morning / late evening shuttles.

 

[craigybagel]

It often isn’t though, but it’s rarely acknowledged on here now, because panicked forum members will immediately attack anyone who dares criticise the platform, after forumers once complained about adverts on the site and the owner seemed to respond by pretty much warning that he might take the site down altogether.

That shut up complaints (probably as intended) but now regular users will have a go at anyone that dares moan when it gets things wrong because they’re scared too much criticism and they’ll lose it altogether That’s really bad if you ask me, but we’ll leave that for a more appropriate thread. To clarify, I do see RTT as an exceptionally valuable resource, I just refuse to deny it’s not infallible.

TfW recently changed it's software and RTT struggled for a while (hence the confusion on these forums when 175101 had it's incident at Wilmslow but RTT thought it was in Ebbw Vale) but it seems to be getting better now. It's a fantastic resource when it works.

That's good then.
We are going to Chester for a few days in a few weeks so hoping to see some 175s and hopefully a few 197s too. I regularly travel on 180s but don't think I've ever ridden a 175 so be nice to catch on from Crewe to Chester.

It's usually 153s on the Crewe Chester shuttle, theres only a couple of 175 diagrams Crewe - Holyhead or early morning / late evening shuttles.

Best bet for Crewe - Chester 175s is on a Sunday, normally there's plenty there - though obviously not so much at present.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

TfW recently changed it's software and RTT struggled for a while (hence the confusion on these forums when 175101 had it's incident at Wilmslow but RTT thought it was in Ebbw Vale) but it seems to be getting better now. It's a fantastic resource when it works.



Best bet for Crewe - Chester 175s is on a Sunday, normally there's plenty there - though obviously not so much at present.

Thanks Craigy.

175101 is at Arriva Crewe.

Ah ok I thought that one had been moved, must have got confused with 007.

 

[L401CJF]

175007 is in Chester Yard (by station) at the East end, engine missing from coach facing toward Crewe/Manchester.

175008 I last saw at the North end of Chester depot (towards Bache) furthest away from the running lines hidden behind a wall/fence, top half only visible but clearly scorched. Visible just about from Merseyrail trains and possibly the bridge on Brook Lane. I havnt been up there for a week or 2 now so don't know if its still there.

 

[Envoy]

An interesting programme with a quirky commentary.
But it might as well have been called Cardiff Railways but for the brief shots of Bow Street station reopening and the inauguration of the 197s "up north".
It was best on the Valleys electrification project, which is otherwise little reported.

The commentary in that programme was dreadful - as if it was trying to make a joke of things.

 

[AgeoftheTrain7]

The commentary in that programme was dreadful - as if it was trying to make a joke of things.

Agreed!

 

[Philip]

Where are all the other 175s based which are currently out of service and receiving their safety check/engine bay clean up?

I've seen 175s 001, 003, 006, 106, 108, 112, 115 and 116 listed for passenger service within the last week or so, a good number still seemingly out of service.

 

[Dai Corner]

Where are all the other 175s based which are currently out of service and receiving their safety check/engine bay clean up?

I've seen 175s 001, 003, 006, 106, 108, 112, 115 and 116 listed for passenger service within the last week or so, a good number still seemingly out of service.

We were told it was just a matter of inspecting and clearing any debris that had accumulated around the engines and should be done within a few days. I do wonder whether more serious problems have been found if there are only eight in service?