TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains

[507 001]

Tfw have also published this Tweet today of a 398 on the back of a low loader with the info that they will be testing in the UK soon. Does anyone know where they will test?

https://twitter.com/transport_wales/status/1524781456723087361?t=S3SFwCUmUIreR9K5_O9fOA&s=19

They can come and test it in Manchester if they like. I’ll put it through it’s paces…

 

[800001]

Tfw have also published this Tweet today of a 398 on the back of a low loader with the info that they will be testing in the UK soon. Does anyone know where they will test?

https://twitter.com/transport_wales/status/1524781456723087361?t=S3SFwCUmUIreR9K5_O9fOA&s=19

Heard whisperings of Old Dalby first for testing.

 

[47550]

Could someone please remind me when these are expected in service…is the electrification work on schedule ?

 

[Geeves]

They can come and test it in Manchester if they like. I’ll put it through it’s paces…

I could be wrong but I think (for now?) They only run on 25KV which is a pitty as I'd like to have seen them on Metrolink too!

 

[fgwrich]

Tfw have also published this Tweet today of a 398 on the back of a low loader with the info that they will be testing in the UK soon. Does anyone know where they will test?

https://twitter.com/transport_wales/status/1524781456723087361?t=S3SFwCUmUIreR9K5_O9fOA&s=19

Certainly not the prettiest of units thats for sure! I cant work out if it's the long flat face of it connected to a round is body or what.

 

[tomuk]

Certainly not the prettiest of units thats for sure! I cant work out if it's the long flat face of it connected to a round is body or what.

It has a certain essence of Blackpool OMO tram about it.

 

[507 001]

I could be wrong but I think (for now?) They only run on 25KV which is a pitty as I'd like to have seen them on Metrolink too!

That’s a shame. They’ll have to have 750 capability at some point though.

 

[Dai Corner]

That’s a shame. They’ll have to have 750 capability at some point though.

Not for Cardiff and the Valleys they won't. They have batteries for the unwired (at 25kV) bits.

Heard whisperings of Old Dalby first for testing.

Modern Railways have tweeted that it will be going to Melton RIDC. I believe that is the new name for the test track formerly known as Old Dalby.

https://twitter.com/Modern_Railways/status/1524867306496704541?s=20&t=FvTyAJGeNgfVpWqcKLfyMQ

Here's another shot of Stadler tram-train No 398001 for
@tfwrail
, built in Valencia. It's heading for the UK and will go to the Melton RIDC for testing

[/QUOTE]

 

[WelshBluebird]

I think they look pretty nice to be fair. Still concerned about the lack of toilets (but that has been done to death elsewhere) and the lengths (IIRC the plan is to only have some services doubled up, which would leave the non doubled services with no more capacity than now - maybe even less) mind you.

 

[craigybagel]

I think they look pretty nice to be fair. Still concerned about the lack of toilets (but that has been done to death elsewhere) and the lengths (IIRC the plan is to only have some services doubled up, which would leave the non doubled services with no more capacity than now - maybe even less) mind you.

4tph up each of the Valleys means frequency will be doubling - so even single units are still providing a capacity increase.

 

[800001]

The first unit, 398001, this afternoon arrived at Asfordby, which is where the Melton Rail Innovation & Development Centre is based.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

The first unit, 398001, this afternoon arrived at Asfordby, which is where the Melton Rail Innovation & Development Centre is based.

Looks quite nice actually. Can't wait to see these eventually running.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looks quite nice actually. Can't wait to see these eventually running.

I think these are a bit of a lesson to Manchester Metrolink...they look to knock spots off the rather poor M5000 trams which essentially do a similar thing.

 

[D365]

I think these are a bit of a lesson to Manchester Metrolink...they look to knock spots off the rather poor M5000 trams which essentially do a similar thing.

Not sure what you mean here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not sure what you mean here.

They are better pre-metro hybrid units than Metrolink trams which are a bit cheap and nasty and have a very poor interior layout.

 

[edwin_m]

I think these are a bit of a lesson to Manchester Metrolink...they look to knock spots off the rather poor M5000 trams which essentially do a similar thing.

Last time I was in Manchester the trams still had spots...

 

[507 001]

I think these are a bit of a lesson to Manchester Metrolink...they look to knock spots off the rather poor M5000 trams which essentially do a similar thing.

The M5000 is a poor design, I’ll give you that, but I’m not sure how you’ve come to that slightly silly conclusion. The M5000 design was the only suitable offering when the initial ones were ordered.

There are no lessons that can be learned when these vehicles weren’t offered in 2007/2008. I suspect that in the not too distant future we’ll be getting something similar.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They are better pre-metro hybrid units than Metrolink trams which are a bit cheap and nasty and have a very poor interior layout.

I genuinely can’t believe you can come to that conclusion purely from seeing a picture of half of one trussed up on a van.

 

[fgwrich]

The M5000 is a poor design, I’ll give you that, but I’m not sure how you’ve come to that slightly silly conclusion. The M5000 design was the only suitable offering when the initial ones were ordered.

There are no lessons that can be learned when these vehicles weren’t offered in 2007/2008. I suspect that in the not too distant future we’ll be getting something similar.

I am a little surprised though that it’s still in production. While I get that it keeps a common fleet across the Metrolink, it is a 13 year old design.

Presumably, it’ll take until a Valleys style Manchester tram train set up to be planned before they stop ordering the M5000.

Returning back to topic - does anyone live near RDIC Melton? I’d be interested to see one of those running along the track there.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I genuinely can’t believe you can come to that conclusion purely from seeing a picture of half of one trussed up on a van.

I've seen interior layouts, renders and Stadler build quality.

 

[507 001]

I am a little surprised though that it’s still in production. While I get that it keeps a common fleet across the Metrolink, it is a 13 year old design.

Presumably, it’ll take until a Valleys style Manchester tram train set up to be planned before they stop ordering the M5000.

Returning back to topic - does anyone live near RDIC Melton? I’d be interested to see one of those running along the track there.

Most of it is even older than 13 years. Don’t forget it’s based off the K5000 which is a few years older. The flexity platform itself is even older again.

Again though, what alternatives are there? Especially an alternative that is compatible with the M5000, the HF6 maybe but that’s about it.

Maintaining two fleets is fine. Maintaining 3, when tram train comes, is not.

 

[DanNCL]

I am a little surprised though that it’s still in production. While I get that it keeps a common fleet across the Metrolink, it is a 13 year old design.

Most of it is even older than 13 years. Don’t forget it’s based off the K5000 which is a few years older. The flexity platform itself is even older again.

Again though, what alternatives are there? Especially an alternative that is compatible with the M5000, the HF6 maybe but that’s about it.

Maintaining two fleets is fine. Maintaining 3, when tram train comes, is not.

Metrolink had to pay extra to restart the production line for the latest build of M5000s, as it had been shut down when Köln and Bonn switched to ordering the HF6. It would have made sense, and perhaps even been cheaper, if Metrolink had ordered something like the 398 from Stadler, or indeed switched to the HF6.

Back on topic, is it certain that the 398s don’t have even passive provision for 750v DC running? 25kV isn’t permitted for on street operation and it’s known that the Senedd have ambitions to eventually use these vehicles as trams across Cardiff, so it would be a huge oversight if provision for future 750v DV running hasn’t been provided.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Back on topic, is it certain that the 398s don’t have even passive provision for 750v DC running? 25kV isn’t permitted for on street operation and it’s known that the Senedd have ambitions to eventually use these vehicles as trams across Cardiff, so it would be a huge oversight if provision for future 750v DV running hasn’t been provided.

I believe the idea is that batteries will be used for street running as it'll be a very small part of the route and so there's plenty of scope to charge while under the 25kV.

 

[507 001]

Metrolink had to pay extra to restart the production line for the latest build of M5000s, as it had been shut down when Köln and Bonn switched to ordering the HF6. It would have made sense, and perhaps even been cheaper, if Metrolink had ordered something like the 398 from Stadler, or indeed switched to the HF6.

Back on topic, is it certain that the 398s don’t have even passive provision for 750v DC running? 25kV isn’t permitted for on street operation and it’s known that the Senedd have ambitions to eventually use these vehicles as trams across Cardiff, so it would be a huge oversight if provision for future 750v DV running hasn’t been provided.

We didn’t have to pay to have the production line restarted, rather we had to guarantee an order for a certain amount. The magic number was 26, so we ordered 27.

As stated above, we couldn’t have ordered the HF6 unless they could be guaranteed to be compatible with the M5000. Also, maintaining a third fleet, which is highly likely to be a micro fleet is not desirable.

Ordering 398s would have been lovely (although there’s issues with whether they’d be suitable for Metrolink in TfW form) but would have had to go out to tender, extending the process considerably for vehicles that were needed now!

 

[Greybeard33]

I've seen interior layouts, renders and Stadler build quality.

These vehicles are built in Valencia, in the business Stadler acquired from Vossloh a few years ago. I am not sure that analogies with the build quality of native Swiss Stadler products are valid. The sister Class 399s in Sheffield have had a chequered history, with serious faults in brakes and windscreens necessitating temporary fleet withdrawals.

 

[Dai Corner]

That’s a shame. They’ll have to have 750 capability at some point though.

I believe the idea is that batteries will be used for street running as it'll be a very small part of the route and so there's plenty of scope to charge while under the 25kV.

Not only for any future street running but also for the bits not electrified at 25kV. That includes the tricky parts of the Valleys lines (low bridges etc, Queen Street station and the Valley Lines platforms (6,7 and 8) at Cardiff Central.

 

[EdChap]

I am afraid that my first thought upon seeing it was Marvin the Depressed Android from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy!!

 

[krus_aragon]

I am afraid that my first thought upon seeing it was Marvin the Depressed Android from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy!!

"I think you ought to know I'm feeling in a bit of a rut valley."

 

[Phil Scott]

Does anyone know the numbering of the individual vehicles? I assume they'll be in the 999xxx series, like the Class 399 vehicles are. Thanks

 

[800001]

Does anyone know the numbering of the individual vehicles? I assume they'll be in the 999xxx series, like the Class 399 vehicles are. Thanks

Pic below from Platform 5 books.