TFW Pacer withdrawals

[Bikeman78]

Well with nearly every 150 on the Valleys paired up with a Pacer at the moment, it'll be interesting to know what those 150s will be paired up with on 1st January 2021.

Most likely a Pacer. There are around 20 Pacer diagrams on weekdays, all paired with a 150 on paper. In the real world things get mixed up so there are pairs of Pacers and pairs of 150s. Even if eight class 769s are diagrammed from December (unlikely) that only frees up a maximum of 16 units.

 

[anthony263]

Come December I think we will only see at least 3 class 769s in service

 

[Mordac]

Come December I think we will only see at least 3 class 769s in service

Mate if we see that many I'll buy you a pint! (If the pubs haven't all closed for good by then! )

 

[Bikeman78]

Come December I think we will only see at least 3 class 769s in service

I completely agree. I was trying to illustrate that, even in the best possible scenario regarding the 769 introduction, binning all the Pacers will likely result in a significant rolling stock shortage.

 

[Cardiff123]

Come December I think we will only see at least 3 class 769s in service

That's being hugely ambitious and optimistic! We'll be lucky to see 1 in passenger service this year. Every time a unit develops a fault, the clock is reset on the 1000 miles of fault free running that each unit must complete before it can enter passenger service. And we're still seeing plenty of faults developing on the test & training runs, of which, we've only seen 3 units on regular testing & training runs anyway.

TfW might as well just apply for derogations to run the Pacers for the foreseeable future

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

Hardly seeing any Pacers around at the moment - only seen 2 or 3 attached to 153s.

Have they started to stop using them? All last week the runs that have been 4 cars (typically a 14x and a 150) have all been a single 150.

 

[PHILIPE]

Hardly seeing any Pacers around at the moment - only seen 2 or 3 attached to 153s.

Have they started to stop using them? All last week the runs that have been 4 cars (typically a 14x and a 150) have all been a single 150.

Reduced formations last week due to Welsh lockdown

 

[sd0733]

Hardly seeing any Pacers around at the moment - only seen 2 or 3 attached to 153s.

Have they started to stop using them? All last week the runs that have been 4 cars (typically a 14x and a 150) have all been a single 150.

Looking at Genius today there seem to be 12 14xs out on the Valleys
142002,069,074,075,085 and 143601,605,607,608,610,616,624.

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

Reduced formations last week due to Welsh lockdown

I was given this reason by TfW. but it was also Welsh Lockdown the week before, when they were running 4 car as normal.

So it doesn't really compute with me.

 

[PHILIPE]

I was given this reason by TfW. but it was also Welsh Lockdown the week before, when they were running 4 car as normal.

So it doesn't really compute with me.

Does it matter ?

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

Well, yes. Seeing as the 2 car runs were heavily over-crowded whenever I went on them (for my necessary journey to work and back). Not very COVID secure!

What a strange way to respond.

 

[PHILIPE]

Well, yes. Seeing as the 2 car runs were heavily over-crowded whenever I went on them (for my necessary journey to work and back). Not very COVID secure!

What a strange way to respond.

Sorry if you feel that way but as it appears you had already asked TFW and received their reply, the only thing I can think of is that they were testing the capacity waters the first week.

 

[Caaardiff]

I was given this reason by TfW. but it was also Welsh Lockdown the week before, when they were running 4 car as normal.

So it doesn't really compute with me.

Could it be that the decision was made after reviewing the first week?
Either way, you've been given the same answer by 2 different sources.

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

Sorry if you feel that way but as it appears you had already asked TFW and received their reply, the only thing I can think of is that they were testing the capacity waters the first week.

that’s fair - hopefully they learnt that on certain lines at certain times of the day, it was woefully inadequate.

Anyway, I’m getting off topic now.

Could it be that the decision was made after reviewing the first week?
Either way, you've been given the same answer by 2 different sources.

Possibly, personally feel it was the wrong decision at times.

Will be interesting to see if it returns to pre-lockdown allocation this week.

this was the only reason I asked if Pacers were starting to be withdrawn.

It doesn’t seem so, so I will stop taking this topic further “off topic”.

 

[Caaardiff]

Possibly, personally feel it was the wrong decision at times.

Will be interesting to see if it returns to pre-lockdown allocation this week.

this was the only reason I asked if Pacers were starting to be withdrawn.

It doesn’t seem so, so I will stop taking this topic further “off topic

There's probably a number of reasons behind it.

The PRM derogation for the 153s around the country appears to be until the end of this year. I can see that being extended again, but I'm not so sure about the Pacers being extended. The WG and TfW want rid of them, but they are filling the gaps. Had covid not been around resulting in dropped passenger numbers then it would be a huge challenge to try and run a decent service without the capacity provided by the Pacers.

Apparently there might be at least one 769 in service from the Dec timetable as opposed to the planned 5 by now. That is a milestone in itself which will help ease the pressure. Also if, as discussed on a different thread, more 153s are coming then hopefully by Dec the Pacer usage will be minimal, if none at all by Dec timetable.

I would imagine that trying to get parts and maintain the Pacers is now also becoming an issue as there aren't many left and I'm sure parts are hard to come by now. So the less usage, the better.

 

[Bikeman78]

There's probably a number of reasons behind it.

The PRM derogation for the 153s around the country appears to be until the end of this year. I can see that being extended again, but I'm not so sure about the Pacers being extended. The WG and TfW want rid of them, but they are filling the gaps. Had covid not been around resulting in dropped passenger numbers then it would be a huge challenge to try and run a decent service without the capacity provided by the Pacers.

Apparently there might be at least one 769 in service from the Dec timetable as opposed to the planned 5 by now. That is a milestone in itself which will help ease the pressure. Also if, as discussed on a different thread, more 153s are coming then hopefully by Dec the Pacer usage will be minimal, if none at all by Dec timetable.

I would imagine that trying to get parts and maintain the Pacers is now also becoming an issue as there aren't many left and I'm sure parts are hard to come by now. So the less usage, the better.

There are two reasons for the reduction in Pacer usage. Drivers are now refusing to work pairs of Pacers, they must be coupled to a 150 or 153. Also, I'm told that several people at Canton have had to isolate so they have focussed the remaining staff on the 150s and 153s. Regarding December, there is no chance of binning all the Pacers until 769s start running or the valleys becomes an entirely two car railway.

 

[bramling]

There are two reasons for the reduction in Pacer usage. Drivers are now refusing to work pairs of Pacers, they must be coupled to a 150 or 153. Also, I'm told that several people at Canton have had to isolate so they have focussed the remaining staff on the 150s and 153s. Regarding December, there is no chance of binning all the Pacers until 769s start running or the valleys becomes an entirely two car railway.

What is the rationale for drivers refusing to work pairs?

 

[Geeves]

At least at Northern the rules are a 142 must run only with another 15x. I think that's due to the toilets being locked on the 142 due access rules also Covid rules. I would imagine it's the same at Transport for Wales and GWR too.

 

[PHILIPE]

At least at Northern the rules are a 142 must run only with another 15x. I think that's due to the toilets being locked on the 142 due access rules also Covid rules. I would imagine it's the same at Transport for Wales and GWR too.

The TFW dispensation allows Pacers to run without restriction but GWR have to be attached to a PRM unit, i.e.150 or 158.


A 142 strayed from the Valleys this morning and worked a Maesteg to Gloucester in company with a 153 so points to low availability of 170s.

 

[Jez]

The TFW dispensation allows Pacers to run without restriction but GWR have to be attached to a PRM unit, i.e.150 or 158.


A 142 strayed from the Valleys this morning and worked a Maesteg to Gloucester in company with a 153 so points to low availability of 170s.

Thats interesting. I think its rare for anything other than a 170 to run Maesteg/Gloucester and also Ebbw Vale services since their introduction.

 

[47827]

Worth remembering this is the height of autumn leaf fall season when rolling stock suddenly becomes unavailable awaiting its space on the wheel lathe so a pacer escaping the valleys today fits the historical trend, if unusual.

 

[PHILIPE]

Pacer withdrawals started if social media story correct. 142082 withdrawn.

 

[Bikeman78]

What is the rationale for drivers refusing to work pairs?

Apparently it's because they have to access the cab via the passenger saloon rather than via a separate door as on the 150s. Allegedly a pair of Pacers doubles the Covid risk. But a 153 coupled to a Pacer is fine even though there's no crew doors on a 153 either. Bear in mind that I've heard this second hand.

 

[Roverebbw]

150 was also working Cardiff to ebbw vale todat

 

[Cardiff123]

Apparently it's because they have to access the cab via the passenger saloon rather than via a separate door as on the 150s. Allegedly a pair of Pacers doubles the Covid risk. But a 153 coupled to a Pacer is fine even though there's no crew doors on a 153 either. Bear in mind that I've heard this second hand.

Using that argument, guards shouldn't be working Pacers either, and guards are much more 'exposed' to the Covid 'risk' on Pacers than drivers.

 

[Richard Scott]

Apparently it's because they have to access the cab via the passenger saloon rather than via a separate door as on the 150s. Allegedly a pair of Pacers doubles the Covid risk. But a 153 coupled to a Pacer is fine even though there's no crew doors on a 153 either. Bear in mind that I've heard this second hand.

I hope this isn't true as it's completely pathetic if it is. There is next to no risk (in actual fact I'd say there is no risk) in the time it takes to get on and into the cab.

 

[bramling]

Apparently it's because they have to access the cab via the passenger saloon rather than via a separate door as on the 150s. Allegedly a pair of Pacers doubles the Covid risk. But a 153 coupled to a Pacer is fine even though there's no crew doors on a 153 either. Bear in mind that I've heard this second hand.

The logic doesn’t really add up, as for every 2x143 train there would be a 2x150, so the number of operational cabs without a door is exactly the same. It would only add up if they were boxing in such units in 3-unit formations.

It would of course mean either the driver or guard can leave the cab without having to access the saloon, but I can’t see what real benefit this gives in reality as pretty much any occasion when staff have to leave the cab it’s fairly laid down who it has to be.

 

[PHILIPE]

Using that argument, guards shouldn't be working Pacers either, and guards are much more 'exposed' to the Covid 'risk' on Pacers than drivers.

Guards are staying in the rear cabs and not doing ticket checks. TFW seem to have gone over the top or call it thorough as can see in not calling at certain stations if shorter platforms. As an example, Yorton and Conwy only have 2 Car trains calling.

 

[Caaardiff]

Guards are staying in the rear cabs and not doing ticket checks. TFW seem to have gone over the top or call it thorough as can see in not calling at certain stations if shorter platforms. As an example, Yorton and Conwy only have 2 Car trains calling.

TfW or Unions that TfW seem to give in to much easier than other TOCs?

Its the passenger that suffers most of the time with these bizarre decisions. I wonder how many drivers still head to the pub on their days off and maintain full social distancing.

What if the train length changes for whatever reason through the day. Does an advertised stop then become a station that isn't stopped at? What happens for the passengers?

 

[PHILIPE]

TFW say they are following Welsh Government guidance. If anybody can find a link to some of their Welsh Government guidance decisions, please post them.