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Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress
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Many stations on the Uckfield line only open 5 coaches with an 8 car unit..(that is until the platform lengthening that's only just been finished
Class377/5
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Thanks. Hadn't though to look at the numbers, and now I feel like I've just found a 'hidden trick'.
I'll be honest, during testing when changing ends it was very easy to lose tack of where you are. Especially when the are multiple carriages are the same and the only 'landmarks' are the toilets!
swt_passenger
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Historic now though. Since the ASDO roll-out that is no longer the case, and 444s can open 4 of 5 cars.
But in the general case, only one unit (half) of a 10.444 opening its doors was common until just recently. The GN will just have to join the rest of the railway in the SE.
chriskeene
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Do you have any more info on how it has been improved?
I've been using the Brighton mainline for many years, and for O2 there is no data signal at all between haywards heath and gatwick. I've been waiting years in the hope it will be upgraded, and for this reason, wifi will be very useful. (I work each day on the train).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Two reasons it will be useful for me, I day working in London, the last few hours not near a plug socket ( a meeting, conference, left a meeting and working in a coffeeshop nearby). When i get back on the train battery is low but i need to work as i head back to the coast.
Second reason, as part of a longer journey, and i know the other part(s) do not have power. I don't mind which train has power, as long as one does.
Third, a day out in london with family/friends. Lots of photos, messages, looking things up, maps etc. on the way back phone is low on battery but i want to use it on the train.
re wifi, i use my laptop each day on the way in and out of london, normally have to teather with phone, which doesn't always works, eats data and battery. also a long dead spot on O2 on the brighton mainline. so wifi handy as well.
O2 didn't spend much money investing in 3G (nor did Vodafone, but I'd say O2 was far worse) and beyond coverage, they also retained old sites with a terribly slow backhaul (non fibre) for far too long so even with coverage you got little to no data flow.
EE is way ahead, but fortunately O2 has a license requirement to reach a certain level and so far seems to be keeping to target. However it has the least spectrum for 4G so will always likely be slower than the rest.
Three will also struggle to keep up speed wise unless it refarms 3G spectrum to 4G.
3G suffers because of cell breathing. As sites get overloaded, their power levels drop and the site shrinks ('breathes') which means you sometimes lose coverage even when you had it before. If there are sufficient sites, 3G is fine and can be really fast, but data usage has gone through the roof in recent years.
4G is so much more efficient and really will solve most problems, although some of the cuttings on the BML may cause issues until Network Rail can build its own network, which I assume all the operators will be able to share.
Sent from my KIW-L21 using Tapatalk
EE is way ahead, but fortunately O2 has a license requirement to reach a certain level and so far seems to be keeping to target. However it has the least spectrum for 4G so will always likely be slower than the rest.
Three will also struggle to keep up speed wise unless it refarms 3G spectrum to 4G.
3G suffers because of cell breathing. As sites get overloaded, their power levels drop and the site shrinks ('breathes') which means you sometimes lose coverage even when you had it before. If there are sufficient sites, 3G is fine and can be really fast, but data usage has gone through the roof in recent years.
4G is so much more efficient and really will solve most problems, although some of the cuttings on the BML may cause issues until Network Rail can build its own network, which I assume all the operators will be able to share.
Sent from my KIW-L21 using Tapatalk
samuelmorris
Established Member
The antipathy towards plug sockets is a little baffling. Sure, if they're not there, it's not the end of the world, but regardless of their high-density nature, one of the UK's flagship new rolling stock developments coming without is definitely a little bit anachronistic.
I periodically see a customer based in Wandsworth Common and get the train back to Victoria. If it's a 377/6 I plug my phone in - it's less than 10 minute journey, but at the end of the day it's nice to be able to plug a phone in that's on 10% odd charge and not have to rely on the portable charger to get home.
Incidentally, as a travelling engineer I can sometimes spend up to 3 hours a day on the mobile to others in my organisation while travelling room to room and spend most of the rest of the day continuously using the phone for other things - documentation, emails, helpdesk tickets etc. so I am one of those people where a phone does not last all day. For that reason I keep a portable charger on me at all times, but finding a train with plug sockets is definitely convenient. Not only can I charge my phone with it, the portable charger goes on it too.
Either that, or my 4G dongle which I need if I have to do work on my laptop on the train (remotely controlling someone else's PC from a 4" phone screen is pretty tricky!).
Then of course there's the fact that my laptop is not one that can be charged via USB so if that needs charging, I really do need a plug socket.
Nobody 'desperately needs' plug sockets or WiFi, but due to all the above, it's very convenient if there is one on my train. I'd never expect them on the sort of service where longitudinal seats are used, but despite the very high % of passengers that use Thameslink solely for the core or stations close to it (myself included, I regularly use TL just to get from Blackfriars to Farringdon as both stations are convienient to me), for those that travel even as far as St Albans to St Pancras or East Croydon to Blackfriars, that's long enough for, assuming you have a seat, a plug socket to be of useful value.
I wouldn't go as far as demanding all old rolling stock gets retrofitted with them, but given the importance of the 700 project and the fanfare to which they are being introduced, I really am in the 'they should have been included in the first place' camp.
Seatback tables I'm a bit more mixed on, again I find them useful, but really only for longer distance services, and can see what people mean with dwell time issues. Plug sockets would affect dwell times too with aisle seat passengers wishing to make use of them when the window seat is occupied, at which point if the window seat passenger wants to exit first they have to untangle themselves from the aisle passenger's phone charger, but the likelihood of that happening vs. someone having the seatback table down just to lean on or stand a newspaper / coffee on is fairly small I would think.
As for WiFi, same argument as above really, not absolutely necessary but really, why not? The only reason why not that I can think of is the much higher number of passengers per train than, for example, intercity services, where you probably will see the full 1800 odd capacity train on a regular basis - that's a lot of connected devices to deal with, so the infrastructure would need to be pretty capable. Not sure what the typical takeup of 'free wifi' on train services is.
Typically speaking 3G/4G coverage (my two phones use O2 and Three respectively, the 4G dongle is also on Three) is fine on most of my commute (C2C Fenchurch Street to Upminster, TfL Liverpool Street to Brentwood or AGA to Shenfield) - although there is a rather annoying 'signal jammer' around Ilford.
I once tried doing the same on SWT from Waterloo to Woking however and both networks were utterly useless. Even regular telephone call dropped seven times in that 25 minutes. I managed to achieve the same on mobile data that usually takes 2-3 minutes, and on a PC barely 30 seconds. My heart goes out to people commuting on that route. I don't think it's the 450 to blame as 360/1s don't give similar trouble over here.
More on topic, me being able to contrive a reason to go for a ride on a 700 will still likely have to wait until they're on some peak diagrams in the core - I'd be fine with them as they are, but I still think WiFi and power sockets are justifiable improvements
I periodically see a customer based in Wandsworth Common and get the train back to Victoria. If it's a 377/6 I plug my phone in - it's less than 10 minute journey, but at the end of the day it's nice to be able to plug a phone in that's on 10% odd charge and not have to rely on the portable charger to get home.
Incidentally, as a travelling engineer I can sometimes spend up to 3 hours a day on the mobile to others in my organisation while travelling room to room and spend most of the rest of the day continuously using the phone for other things - documentation, emails, helpdesk tickets etc. so I am one of those people where a phone does not last all day. For that reason I keep a portable charger on me at all times, but finding a train with plug sockets is definitely convenient. Not only can I charge my phone with it, the portable charger goes on it too.
Either that, or my 4G dongle which I need if I have to do work on my laptop on the train (remotely controlling someone else's PC from a 4" phone screen is pretty tricky!).
Then of course there's the fact that my laptop is not one that can be charged via USB so if that needs charging, I really do need a plug socket.
Nobody 'desperately needs' plug sockets or WiFi, but due to all the above, it's very convenient if there is one on my train. I'd never expect them on the sort of service where longitudinal seats are used, but despite the very high % of passengers that use Thameslink solely for the core or stations close to it (myself included, I regularly use TL just to get from Blackfriars to Farringdon as both stations are convienient to me), for those that travel even as far as St Albans to St Pancras or East Croydon to Blackfriars, that's long enough for, assuming you have a seat, a plug socket to be of useful value.
I wouldn't go as far as demanding all old rolling stock gets retrofitted with them, but given the importance of the 700 project and the fanfare to which they are being introduced, I really am in the 'they should have been included in the first place' camp.
Seatback tables I'm a bit more mixed on, again I find them useful, but really only for longer distance services, and can see what people mean with dwell time issues. Plug sockets would affect dwell times too with aisle seat passengers wishing to make use of them when the window seat is occupied, at which point if the window seat passenger wants to exit first they have to untangle themselves from the aisle passenger's phone charger, but the likelihood of that happening vs. someone having the seatback table down just to lean on or stand a newspaper / coffee on is fairly small I would think.
As for WiFi, same argument as above really, not absolutely necessary but really, why not? The only reason why not that I can think of is the much higher number of passengers per train than, for example, intercity services, where you probably will see the full 1800 odd capacity train on a regular basis - that's a lot of connected devices to deal with, so the infrastructure would need to be pretty capable. Not sure what the typical takeup of 'free wifi' on train services is.
Typically speaking 3G/4G coverage (my two phones use O2 and Three respectively, the 4G dongle is also on Three) is fine on most of my commute (C2C Fenchurch Street to Upminster, TfL Liverpool Street to Brentwood or AGA to Shenfield) - although there is a rather annoying 'signal jammer' around Ilford.
I once tried doing the same on SWT from Waterloo to Woking however and both networks were utterly useless. Even regular telephone call dropped seven times in that 25 minutes. I managed to achieve the same on mobile data that usually takes 2-3 minutes, and on a PC barely 30 seconds. My heart goes out to people commuting on that route. I don't think it's the 450 to blame as 360/1s don't give similar trouble over here.
More on topic, me being able to contrive a reason to go for a ride on a 700 will still likely have to wait until they're on some peak diagrams in the core - I'd be fine with them as they are, but I still think WiFi and power sockets are justifiable improvements
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Supercoss
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Prior to full construction a 'resilience traction package' was mooted that would give the class 700 up to 8 minutes of traction if the main traction supply failed and via ' load shedding' various non essential functions, it was deemed that wherever a unit became stalled away from platforms in the core section, 8 minutes was all required. With advances in battery technology and size this was far from a battery EMU but considered just enough to get the unit to the next platform face to allow controlled evacuation.
Whilst not adopted these units are high capacity people movers and nothing else 654 seats (excluding tip up) on a FLU with computer modelled standing capacity of over 1000 so that c.1700 total capacity at crush load. They should be thought of as more like metro units rather than inner suburban sets despite the huge journey opportunities possible from 2018 it's all about high capacity operation through the Central London Section.
Whilst not adopted these units are high capacity people movers and nothing else 654 seats (excluding tip up) on a FLU with computer modelled standing capacity of over 1000 so that c.1700 total capacity at crush load. They should be thought of as more like metro units rather than inner suburban sets despite the huge journey opportunities possible from 2018 it's all about high capacity operation through the Central London Section.
samuelmorris
Established Member
As far as I'm concerned they're 'dual purpose' units combining intermediate and metro services. Sutton loop services, core only passengers and arguably the Sevenoaks service count as metro operations, versus the Bedford, Cambridge, Peterborough, Brighton etc. parts which probably classify as 'outer suburban'?
Are next week's weekday diagrams likely to be the same as previous? I'm likely to be visiting a supplier in Haywards Heath on wednesday morning and it'd be good to get a ride on the 700 as part of the trip, but I recognise chances are pretty slim, so happy to settle for a 377/387, but if there is a chance of doing a proper trip on a 700 rather than just my usual half-mile in the core, I'm happy to bend my travel time slightly to cater for it
Are next week's weekday diagrams likely to be the same as previous? I'm likely to be visiting a supplier in Haywards Heath on wednesday morning and it'd be good to get a ride on the 700 as part of the trip, but I recognise chances are pretty slim, so happy to settle for a 377/387, but if there is a chance of doing a proper trip on a 700 rather than just my usual half-mile in the core, I'm happy to bend my travel time slightly to cater for it
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
Any chance of the 700 diagram for this coming week please?
Islineclear3_1
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Class377/5
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700107 doing the honors today.
trainmania100
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Anyone know why a light loco is going to three bridges today under 0O42?
Derby north doc to three bridges
Maybe its some shunting or something..?
I assume it has something to do with the 700s
Derby north doc to three bridges
Maybe its some shunting or something..?
I assume it has something to do with the 700s
class387
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Still weekday only?
Gareth4949
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It didn't last long
700107 taken out of service at London Bridge due to a fault
700107 taken out of service at London Bridge due to a fault
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
RTT shows a problem with the doors. Will a substitute run from Three Bridges to start the next service from Brighton?
SpacePhoenix
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Is the blockage detecion on the doors more sensitive compared with previous stock on TL?
Goldfish62
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10 car trains call at Chertsey, which has 4 car platforms.
I think its going into the depot.
According to Realtimetrains, 1B10 0827 Brighton to London Bridge has left Brighton at 0843.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G73330/2016/07/04/advanced
An additional 5Z05 0805 Three Bridges Tl Up Depot to Brighton ran to Brighton to form this.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O08906/2016/07/04/advanced
Note that there appears to have been an outage for the data feed between about 0820 and 0835. 5Z05 was reported at Balcombe.
Norwich317
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Presumably under the maintenance contract, Siemens will pay the penalty for the cancelled London Bridge to Brighton service.
gosh, hope the doors are more reliable than this. Imagine this happening in the core every morning lol
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
Appears this one only made it as far as Gatwick?!
Littlehaven operated for years as a four coach station served by twelve coach trains in the peaks. In the end it was lengthened because it got too busy to be safe.
Class377/5
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442 connected.
Yes.
Not an actual fault.
Defo not the doors. RTT isn't a reliable source of info like this.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
What was the problem pls?
bengley
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The problem with it today was a phantom fire alarm activation which couldn't be cleared.
Being hauled to Eastleigh for storage?
Failed Unit
Established Member
I will reserve judgement until we see the final timetable, but the fact that 4 coach trains will no longer be possible will help.
Take the 1652 London - Cambrige, it will be a lot more pleasent. (Although in reality once it has passed WGC it isn't bad anyway).
Likewise a lot of 6 car services still run on the Kings Cross - Welwyn GC peak services.
I am hoping that the fact that Stevenage gets an improved service, will mean that less passengers from further north will chose to get on the trains stopping at Knebworth, Welwyn North etc so that there is more chance of getting a seat on them. The downside is of course they will be carting around a lot of freshair north of Stevenage.
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