The biggest issues in Rail and how to solve them. University Product Design

[hobbm013]

Hi Everyone

(mods please move if there is a better place for this topic)

I’m a Product Design student who has to complete a final year project. I have a real interest in the rail industry and would love to base my final year project around this. Ideally I need a real life scenario and problem to work with therefore I was wondering if anyone could think of the largest issues in the railway sector right now which could be solved through a product, app, service, technology innovation etc.

At this stage I’m just looking for ideas and am still a few months away from pitching this project. But any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Many thanks,

Matt

 

[baffobear]

Hi,

I'd say one of the issues is to do with Passenger information during disruption and before and during engineering works

Ensuring that correct levels of information are provided:

In advance of a customer journey.
At the station.
Where connections or modal changes may occur for example rail replacement buses or changing at a connecting station from one TOC to another.
Ensuring that on transfer of franchise that good practice is not lost.

 

[jayah]

Hi Everyone

(mods please move if there is a better place for this topic)

I’m a Product Design student who has to complete a final year project. I have a real interest in the rail industry and would love to base my final year project around this. Ideally I need a real life scenario and problem to work with therefore I was wondering if anyone could think of the largest issues in the railway sector right now which could be solved through a product, app, service, technology innovation etc.

At this stage I’m just looking for ideas and am still a few months away from pitching this project. But any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Many thanks,

Matt

How about a way of getting a passenger seat that is both 'comfortable' and meets the challenging crash worthiness and fire resistance standards?

There are probably lots around track maintenance relating to extending asset life and monitoring their condition without visual and disruptive inspections.

 

[Taunton]

As you are doing Product Design, maybe something you can consider is that every generation of private car I have had was better than the last, more comfortable, more spacious, had better seats, better legroom, was quieter, and had a whole range of new and useful features. Their price has risen by less than average inflation.

Meanwhile every generation of trains over the same time had harder seats, smaller seats, more stupid window arrangements relative to the seats, expected ever-increasing numbers of passengers to stand rather than sit down, is more draughty, more cramped, had worse legroom, etc. And cost has skyrocketed beyond general industrial inflation.

If you can find a way to reverse this trend you will have a winner.

If you want a "real life" scenario I suggest going down to Didcot museum, where they have a 1935 GWR Excursion Stock Open Third you can ride up and down in. Despite it being now 85 years old and having stood out in the open for much of its life, plus having been built in the first place for the lowest yielding class of passenger fare, I find it a far more pleasant ambience than anything from the £ multi-million per vehicle modern versions.

 

[randyrippley]

How about a radio interface between railway signalling systems and car control systems which would disable the engines of cars approaching level crossings when a train is approaching?
Modern cars are already fitted with the kit through which this could be done, either through wifi or 4G. It just needs programming and for someone to design the railway side of the link

 

[edwin_m]

You could look at whether there is any quicker/better way of getting wheelchairs on board at the majority of platforms that can't be raised to train floor level.

 

[30907]

As you are doing Product Design, maybe something you can consider is that every generation of private car I have had was better than the last, more comfortable, more spacious, had better seats, better legroom, was quieter, and had a whole range of new and useful features. Their price has risen by less than average inflation.

Meanwhile every generation of trains over the same time had harder seats, smaller seats, more stupid window arrangements relative to the seats, expected ever-increasing numbers of passengers to stand rather than sit down, is more draughty, more cramped, had worse legroom, etc. And cost has skyrocketed beyond general industrial inflation.

If you can find a way to reverse this trend you will have a winner.

If you want a "real life" scenario I suggest going down to Didcot museum, where they have a 1935 GWR Excursion Stock Open Third you can ride up and down in. Despite it being now 85 years old and having stood out in the open for much of its life, plus having been built in the first place for the lowest yielding class of passenger fare, I find it a far more pleasant ambience than anything from the £ multi-million per vehicle modern versions.

Indeed. But you must also factor in that you can't increase the size of your vehicle - unlike car manufacturers over the last N years.

 

[Taunton]

Indeed. But you must also factor in that you can't increase the size of your vehicle - unlike car manufacturers over the last N years.

That's not quite correct. Used to be 20m/64ft length was standard, Mk 3 etc standardised 23m/75ft, now it's 26m.

 

[Speed43125]

That's not quite correct. Used to be 20m/64ft length was standard, Mk 3 etc standardised 23m/75ft, now it's 26m.

But loading gauge is the limiting factor here. Most of the issues described are not ones that can be simply solved by increasing train length.

 

[Gerard2100]

How about powering a rail system off solar using the dc third rail,especially in countries with high sun levels.

 

[30907]

That's not quite correct. Used to be 20m/64ft length was standard, Mk 3 etc standardised 23m/75ft, now it's 26m.

Sorry, meant width and height.
Longer stock has operational advantages (in some cases) but not ñecessarily passenger benefits - and 26m seems to be the limit (DB had slightly longer Restaurant cars but they didn't like complex pointwork...

 

[tbtc]

For me, one of the biggest problems is getting from the platform onto the train.

We are enthusiasts, we (often!) know what we are doing, we are generally confident enough to stand at the right platform etc.

But a lot of members of the public aren't, they'll find this anxious - am I standing in the right place? And then, when the train turns up, am I standing at the right end? You might have a reserved seat in Coach B but no idea of whether that's going to be at the start or the end (or even if there's a Coach A, since some trains don't have every letter used). Even if you are standing at the right end of the right platform, will it be a train with doors at the ends or closer to the middle of the carriage? Will the furthest carriage be at the far end of the platform, or should I stay near the middle of the platform and hedge my bets? Do I have to wait until the train comes in to try and see whether the front carriage is "A" or "J"?

For me, that's a lot of things to go wrong, a lot of things to be anxious about. If I go to an Airport or to the Cinema then I'll have people pointing me in the right direction but we don't have the luxury of sufficient staff at stations to help everyone with such matters.

Part of the problem is that it can change a lot from station to station or even between different services using the same station (e.g. sometimes the screens will tell me that First Class is at the rear, several minutes before the train arrives, but sometimes they won't).

If you can find something to improve this then you'll make life a lot easier for non-regular passengers (bearing in mind that, once you take every day commuters out of the equation, most members of the public take no more than a couple of return journeys a year - certainly outside London), but you'll also improve dwell times, which will make services more reliable.

The example I've given before is Stagecoach Supertram, where the trams stop at each station in line with the markings on the platform, so people know where to queue up, meaning you can let a dozen people off and have a dozen board and be off again pretty swiftly. The Jubilee Line extension in London means a tube train can soak up hundreds of passengers and zip away again in next to no time.

Whilst I appreciate that a one/two hundred metre long heavy rail service is fundamentally different (given reserved seats, different classes of accommodation etc), the scrum at some major stations is pretty off-putting - as anxious passengers push past each other, looking for different bits of the train (witness how many people will start off standing near the middle of the platform and only realise once the train is coming in where the front carriages start).

Different people have tried to "solve" this - e.g. Virgin had different coloured "zones" at stations - but since the TOC operating the service may not be the people operating the station, that doesn't always work. I'd be interested in anyone's idea on how we could make boarding much simpler (and therefore make station dwells more reliable and potentially even faster).

 

[PTR 444]

For me, one of the biggest problems is getting from the platform onto the train.

We are enthusiasts, we (often!) know what we are doing, we are generally confident enough to stand at the right platform etc.

But a lot of members of the public aren't, they'll find this anxious - am I standing in the right place? And then, when the train turns up, am I standing at the right end? You might have a reserved seat in Coach B but no idea of whether that's going to be at the start or the end (or even if there's a Coach A, since some trains don't have every letter used). Even if you are standing at the right end of the right platform, will it be a train with doors at the ends or closer to the middle of the carriage? Will the furthest carriage be at the far end of the platform, or should I stay near the middle of the platform and hedge my bets? Do I have to wait until the train comes in to try and see whether the front carriage is "A" or "J"?

For me, that's a lot of things to go wrong, a lot of things to be anxious about. If I go to an Airport or to the Cinema then I'll have people pointing me in the right direction but we don't have the luxury of sufficient staff at stations to help everyone with such matters.

Part of the problem is that it can change a lot from station to station or even between different services using the same station (e.g. sometimes the screens will tell me that First Class is at the rear, several minutes before the train arrives, but sometimes they won't).

If you can find something to improve this then you'll make life a lot easier for non-regular passengers (bearing in mind that, once you take every day commuters out of the equation, most members of the public take no more than a couple of return journeys a year - certainly outside London), but you'll also improve dwell times, which will make services more reliable.

The example I've given before is Stagecoach Supertram, where the trams stop at each station in line with the markings on the platform, so people know where to queue up, meaning you can let a dozen people off and have a dozen board and be off again pretty swiftly. The Jubilee Line extension in London means a tube train can soak up hundreds of passengers and zip away again in next to no time.

Whilst I appreciate that a one/two hundred metre long heavy rail service is fundamentally different (given reserved seats, different classes of accommodation etc), the scrum at some major stations is pretty off-putting - as anxious passengers push past each other, looking for different bits of the train (witness how many people will start off standing near the middle of the platform and only realise once the train is coming in where the front carriages start).

Different people have tried to "solve" this - e.g. Virgin had different coloured "zones" at stations - but since the TOC operating the service may not be the people operating the station, that doesn't always work. I'd be interested in anyone's idea on how we could make boarding much simpler (and therefore make station dwells more reliable and potentially even faster).

The Station Master app has a guide for where to board your train at each platform, however this is limited to London Underground/TfL operated lines where incidentally each line only sees one kind of rolling stock. I think something like this for the National Rail network would be a good idea as long as there was a way to differentiate between different rolling stock serving the same platform.

 

[OneOffDave]

How about a radio interface between railway signalling systems and car control systems which would disable the engines of cars approaching level crossings when a train is approaching?
Modern cars are already fitted with the kit through which this could be done, either through wifi or 4G. It just needs programming and for someone to design the railway side of the link

And there goes your power steering and braking assistance. I'm not sure how you'd connect with the car without knowing the details of it

 

[Taunton]

And there goes your power steering and braking assistance. I'm not sure how you'd connect with the car without knowing the details of it

My brilliant idea was a little swivelling barrier that might come down in front of the car ...

 

[MarkyT]

And there goes your power steering and braking assistance. I'm not sure how you'd connect with the car without knowing the details of it

To make it fail-safe you'd have to ensure all road vehicles would abandon their approach unless they got the specific authority to proceed. That's not very easy to do electronically, especially as older cars will certainly not have the technology required on board. The only way to ensure this for all vehicles reliably is a large bollard, ramp, or barrier capable of stopping the fastest and heaviest, activated by the crossing controls, Russian style.

 

[pdeaves]

I think something related to safety and accessibility would do you well. Look at platform-train interface (PTI). Some trains (e.g. Pendolinos) have a step that pops out when the door opens - could a wheelchair ramp do the same thing?

 

[hobbm013]

Thank you very much to all that have commented so far, some really good suggestions here. Definitely some things to think about

 

[alxndr]

Track worker safety. I'd like to see a method of confirming that a worker is at the correct location and that a line blockage or possession has been taken for that location. Maybe even requiring collaborative working between the COSS and signaller to cancel the line blockage rather than just a verbal exchange.

 

[randyrippley]

How about powering a rail system off solar using the dc third rail,especially in countries with high sun levels.

But the solar panels are fragile and would quickly wear off the railtop as the pickup shoes ran over them
Or did you intend to use side-contact?

 

[Revaulx]

For me, one of the biggest problems is getting from the platform onto the train.

(lots of good stuff snipped...)

Manchester has 25 more Nobel Prize winners than all but seven entire countries.

It would be be good if it could come up with a solution to this very issue for Piccadilly platforms 13 and 14. Surely there’s nowhere else where it’s as bad?

Building additional through platforms would address the overcrowding and help the trains run on time, but would do nothing to address the issues @tbtc highlights.

 

[Taunton]

a solution to this very issue for Piccadilly platforms 13 and 14. Surely there’s nowhere else where it’s as bad?

Building additional through platforms would address the overcrowding and help the trains run on time, but would do nothing to address the issues

In my experience this issue is entirely of the railways' own making, in providing trains that are insufficiently long. Sending 2-car trains, with just 4 doors, along to handle those crowds is plain ridiculous. Even a 4-car train, double the doors, people more spread along the platform, no crushing at the door because there's no more space inside, notably reduced dwell times, etc. I can quite understand why the infrastructure provider feels it shouldn't be stuck back on them. Think what the London Underground would be like if 2-car trains turned up.

 

[markymark2000]

I would like to see something done to reduce the signal timeouts. I know trains need overlap for incase a driver is going line speed and SPADS but I was on an TFW service from Chester and we stopped just before Ordsall Curve junction to let a TPE go in front however we didn't actually move from that point until the Trans Penning in front had left Oxford Road. We then stopped at Deansgate to let the Northern service from P5 depart. This wasn't as bad but some of the timings between signals is daft and I would like to see that reduced as it would increase throughput.

Secondly, I would like to see something which can replace 'Pilotmen' for single line working. In my opinion, single line working could be implimented during a lot more engineering works but Network Rail don't want to pay for pilotmen on lesser used lines (Bidston to Shotton during the Merseyrail platform works. The line could (and should) have been able to run on a single line from Shotton to Upton but NR refused to pay for the staff to do it). I don't know if some sort of 'temporary token working' could be created. I would say around 40% of the time some sort of engineering works are on, a non effected line is shut due to no BiDi signalling or not wanting to pay for signalmen. Passengers would prefer a reduced frequency on single lines than no service.

Thirdly, some technology to reduce the time it takes to for planning engineering works. For some projects, they spend months planning for a few days of disruption. About 1/3rd of the staffing part of the project budget must go on meetings prior to the disruption. Other areas in the world can build new railways in few years, for us it takes about a year in planning for a points replacement. The less money spent on planning means more money can be spent on increasing workforce to get more work done and done quicker (or it saves money for more projects)

 

[43096]

I think something related to safety and accessibility would do you well. Look at platform-train interface (PTI). Some trains (e.g. Pendolinos) have a step that pops out when the door opens - could a wheelchair ramp do the same thing?

Already done by Stadler: https://www.railinsider.co.uk/2019/...new-class-755-trains-put-through-their-paces/

 

[tbtc]

Manchester has 25 more Nobel Prize winners than all but seven entire countries.

It would be be good if it could come up with a solution to this very issue for Piccadilly platforms 13 and 14. Surely there’s nowhere else where it’s as bad?

Building additional through platforms would address the overcrowding and help the trains run on time, but would do nothing to address the issues @tbtc highlights.

I did not know that about Manchester but... wow - that's impressive!

It just feels frustrating that too often the answer is something like "spend a hundred million quid on new infrastructure like the proposed platforms 15/16" when there are surely some simple ways you could speed up station dwells (and make travel much less stressful for occasional travellers) - e.g. someone knows when an eastbound train departs from Liverpool how many carriages it has and what the door position is - is it a 158 or a 195 - is it a two/three/four coach one - so by the time it's entering the Castlefield Corridor the platform indicators at Piccadilly could be telling people where to expect to stand for "Coach A" (on the services with reservations)/ where First Class is (on services with it)/ where the front/rear will be... rather than people congregating at the bottom of the stairs and then dashing along to each end of the train once it starts pulling in - often with people barging past in the opposite direction - it's just such a modest proposal that it gets overlooked (because the two extremes are "do nothing" and "spend a hundred million pounds on a complicated solution", so nobody argues for things in between).

I'm not trying to change the world, I'm not trying to implement a utopian solution (e.g. replacing all trains with one class that has uniform door positions, implement a Jubilee Line Extension approach to keep station dwells down to a minimum) - I appreciate that the world is a complicated/messy place - but things like the length of a train/ where First Class is on the train/ where "Coach A" is on a train etc shouldn't come as a surprise to everyone at a station when it turns up (as if it's randomly arrived with nobody having any possible way of knowing whether it was short formed or operating in the reverse of the regular formation etc.

(platforms 15/16 would be a benefit, don't get me wrong, but it feels a bit like reaching for the most expensive/complicated solution when we could at least try something simpler in the short term - I guess a lot of the people who want the big/ expensive/ complication option don't have any interest in smaller scale improvements that may spoil the case for the Land Of Milk And Honey that these costly new platforms will bring)

 

[Doomotron]

I’m a Product Design student who has to complete a final year project. I have a real interest in the rail industry and would love to base my final year project around this. Ideally I need a real life scenario and problem to work with therefore I was wondering if anyone could think of the largest issues in the railway sector right now which could be solved through a product, app, service, technology innovation etc.

Can you fix the RMT?

Spoiler

I do have a serious suggestion, don't worry. With third rail not being capable of running fast enough trains, arguably unsafe and too hard to replace, what would be a good way of improving third rail without replacing third rail?

 

[hobbm013]

As a follow up to the responses above, I have created a short survey which I would really appreciate you answering, especially if you work on or use the railways frequently

Free Online Survey Software by SurveyMonkey: Closed Survey

This survey is currently closed. Please contact the author of this survey for further assistance.

www.surveymonkey.co.uk

Thank you for taking the time to answer this survey, all information is anonymous and only used for my planning. I can be contacted on [email protected] or via private message if you want to discuss any matters in more detail.