The rapid decline of Bournemouth’s Yellow Buses network

[Snow1964]

I think the biggest problem will be retaining the staff.

The Administrator has a maximum of 14 (calendar) days to decide which staff it wants to keep on (and takes over paying them), or make redundant (at statutory rates)

If I was a driver there I would be looking around, but hold off handing in my notice for the 2 weeks. Collecting redundancy (week for every year, or 1.5 if aged over 41, upto a max) plus pay in lieu of notice and accrued holiday can add up. With the redundancy part being tax free (upto £30k) some will get equivalent of few months take home pay. With a shortage of drivers generally might easily get job elsewhere.

If company is sold and staff TUPEd could miss out on this.

 

[Towers]

Do Yellow still run NatEx stuff? Or is that all Go Ahead now, from Poole?

 

[Flange Squeal]

Do Yellow still run NatEx stuff? Or is that all Go Ahead now, from Poole?

Some posts on page 2 of this thread suggest that they have/are to get working(s) on the London to Poole/Weymouth 035 back, that having gone to National Express-owned Lucketts Group in the last year or two. Certainly their recruitment page is advertising for drivers - https://www.yellowbuses.co.uk/national-express-drivers

£2000 sign up and retention bonus for PCV license holders!​

Let us drive your career in a new direction!

If you have a valid PCV license - we want you to join our friendly team!

Come and join Bournemouth’s locally owned and locally operated coach company. Due to expansion within our Yellow Coaches operation, we are looking for experienced drivers to join our winning team - with an added bonus... a £2000 bonus!

We are looking for flexible and committed individuals who have experience of giving great customer service.

In return we offer you part time of full time hours per week - with an attractive hourly rate of £13 per hour, making us one of the highest paid operators in the area for coach drivers. Our shifts are varied, but provide a work-life balance with optional overtime available.

In addition to an attractive hourly rate, you and a family member will get free travel passes to use on our network and reciprocal operators in the area, such as Go South Coast and First Hampshire & Dorset.

Yellow Coaches operate contracts for National Express.​

With the opportunity of an immediate start and as a ‘Thank You’ for joining us, you will receive an extra £500 payment, the first week that you drive on your own following a training period.

You will then receive a further £1000 six months later and the third payment of £500 after 12 months of service.

We love recommendations, so if you’ve been introduced by an existing Bournemouth Transport employee, we will give them £600 as a thank you too, so make sure you put their name on your application form!

What we are looking for:​

• A Full PCV driving license, with no more than 6 points (dependant on reasoning)
• Valid CPC (how ever onsite training can be given)
• Exceptional customer service skills
• Experience in driving coaches on National Express and be approved on their network (this training and accreditation can also be trained on site)
• The flexibility to work a variety of shifts and work

What we can offer you:​

• £13 per hour
• A guaranteed minimum of 40 hours per week
• Boost earnings with overtime opportunities
• Part-time or casual working available
• Job security and progression opportunities
• Free bus travel on all Yellow Buses and reciprocal operator services for you and a plus one
• Access to various employee discounts including supermarkets and other high street shops and restaurants
• Pension scheme
• Paid Annual Leave

How to apply​

Submit an online application form or send an email to [email protected].

 

[richard13]

I think the biggest problem will be retaining the staff.

The Administrator has a maximum of 14 (calendar) days to decide which staff it wants to keep on (and takes over paying them), or make redundant (at statutory rates)

If I was a driver there I would be looking around, but hold off handing in my notice for the 2 weeks. Collecting redundancy (week for every year, or 1.5 if aged over 41, upto a max) plus pay in lieu of notice and accrued holiday can add up. With the redundancy part being tax free (upto £30k) some will get equivalent of few months take home pay. With a shortage of drivers generally might easily get job elsewhere.

If company is sold and staff TUPEd could miss out on this.

That is the driver's entitlement, but it will only be paid if the company in administration has the cash to pay it, which is normally unlikely for a whole company. Bus companies don't send out accounts at the end of the month for payments - today's fares paid can be today's staff or suppliers pay - so there is little backlog of money to be collected. The administrators take cash out for their expenditure and they don't pay redundancy or anything else, only administrate it. They may take on staff if the cost is potentially covered by their continuing employment - they generate more cash than they cost or they are the cheapest way of sending out the termination letters / Tax forms etc.

The administrators only started on Friday (but YB would have been in discussion with accountants etc in advance - the end of month payroll presumably didn't bounce - so there is still some cash, but possibly not enough for next month) and will quickly look at the discussions with a potential buyer, then they will keep it going for a sale to complete if cash available allows that. It so much depends on now much cash is left and the size of the purchase price.

 

[Titfield]

That is the driver's entitlement, but it will only be paid if the company in administration has the cash to pay it, which is normally unlikely for a whole company.

If an employee is made redundant and the company can not pay the redundancy payment due (statutory minimum) then the Govt will pay the statutory redundancy amounts.

However if the employee is tuped (Transfer of Undertaking Protection of Employment) to a new employer then no redundancy payments are due because legally the employee has not lost their employment the undertaking (ownership) has been transferred and the employment protected.

 

[Snow1964]

That is the driver's entitlement, but it will only be paid if the company in administration has the cash to pay it, which is normally unlikely for a whole company. Bus companies don't send out accounts at the end of the month for payments - today's fares paid can be today's staff or suppliers pay - so there is little backlog of money to be collected. The administrators take cash out for their expenditure and they don't pay redundancy or anything else, only administrate it. They may take on staff if the cost is potentially covered by their continuing employment - they generate more cash than they cost or they are the cheapest way of sending out the termination letters / Tax forms etc.

The administrators only started on Friday (but YB would have been in discussion with accountants etc in advance - the end of month payroll presumably didn't bounce - so there is still some cash, but possibly not enough for next month) and will quickly look at the discussions with a potential buyer, then they will keep it going for a sale to complete if cash available allows that. It so much depends on now much cash is left and the size of the purchase price.

No, the Administrators get the Redundancy Payments Service to pay the staff so comes from central funds within few weeks. So cash in company is irrelevant, but the RPS is a preferred creditor so gets refunded if the administrator recovers sufficient funds during the liquidation process. If not enough money to refund the RPS then Government effectively pays.

I was made redundant about year ago, (by email at about 8pm on 13th day), as was every employee in the company. It avoids the administrator taking any responsibility for wages which they inherit if still employed after 14 days. Couple of people were then offered some contract work to help the administrator as they knew their way around the electronic and office files so could find documents required.

If I remember correctly, every employee is sent a login to fill in a form to confirm name, address, bank accounts, how many days holiday taken etc and this forms basis of data transferred to RPS

I expect if there is not a serious buyer of the business by about day 10-12 then shutdown and redundancy process will happen to avoid administrator inheriting staff on their books.

 

[Hophead]

As I understand it, you are only entitled to redundancy pay if you've been employed for 2 years or more. Any recent recruits might be wondering if they should jump ship ahead of the queue (though I guess there's a notice period which would limit the immediate effect?).

 

[M803UYA]

That is the driver's entitlement, but it will only be paid if the company in administration has the cash to pay it, which is normally unlikely for a whole company. Bus companies don't send out accounts at the end of the month for payments - today's fares paid can be today's staff or suppliers pay - so there is little backlog of money to be collected. The administrators take cash out for their expenditure and they don't pay redundancy or anything else, only administrate it. They may take on staff if the cost is potentially covered by their continuing employment - they generate more cash than they cost or they are the cheapest way of sending out the termination letters / Tax forms etc.

The administrators only started on Friday (but YB would have been in discussion with accountants etc in advance - the end of month payroll presumably didn't bounce - so there is still some cash, but possibly not enough for next month) and will quickly look at the discussions with a potential buyer, then they will keep it going for a sale to complete if cash available allows that. It so much depends on now much cash is left and the size of the purchase price.

It's mentioned on Yellows' website that the monthly payroll was met (29th being the last Friday of the month) however drivers are paid weekly. One wonders if some cash flow forecasting has been undertaken knowing what the calls will be on cash from September onwards (when Government support ends) and they've concluded it cannot be met from that date. The administration would affect suppliers primarily, who'd join the list of creditors unless there was a quick exit from administration. Whether they'd get what they were owed depends on available funds.
The issues came to a head when Andrew was the MD, the current management team were appointed mid 2017 and they've had to fix the mess. Early on in their time they realised what the problem was and reverted the bus network to the pre Jan 2017 set of routes with some variations. I've mentioned previously just how dependent Yellows were on the National Express revenues from two routes - it was these which propped up the business and were the primary generator of profits. Losing that turnover made the issues of 2017 worse. There were panic changes put through to a new network as the company realised it was losing money and passengers - each change at 8 week intervals just encouraged staff to leave for more 'stable' work.
My second stint (through much of 2017) was akin to firefighting. It was shocking just how much the business had gone wrong in just 13 months. Whilst I'd seen a lot in my time away and knew a thing or two about firefighting it took months to work out - by which time I'd found somewhere else to work.
My resignation went in on the same day Andrew Smith resigned from the company - so the new team arrived too late for me. There was only one of me by that point and you can do three people's work for so long before you come to a conclusion that nothing will change and you walk away.

 

[MotCO]

It's mentioned on Yellows' website that the monthly payroll was met (29th being the last Friday of the month) however drivers are paid weekly. One wonders if some cash flow forecasting has been undertaken knowing what the calls will be on cash from September onwards (when Government support ends) and they've concluded it cannot be met from that date. The administration would affect suppliers primarily, who'd join the list of creditors unless there was a quick exit from administration. Whether they'd get what they were owed depends on available funds.
The issues came to a head when Andrew was the MD, the current management team were appointed mid 2017 and they've had to fix the mess. Early on in their time they realised what the problem was and reverted the bus network to the pre Jan 2017 set of routes with some variations. I've mentioned previously just how dependent Yellows were on the National Express revenues from two routes - it was these which propped up the business and were the primary generator of profits. Losing that turnover made the issues of 2017 worse. There were panic changes put through to a new network as the company realised it was losing money and passengers - each change at 8 week intervals just encouraged staff to leave for more 'stable' work.
My second stint (through much of 2017) was akin to firefighting. It was shocking just how much the business had gone wrong in just 13 months. Whilst I'd seen a lot in my time away and knew a thing or two about firefighting it took months to work out - by which time I'd found somewhere else to work.
My resignation went in on the same day Andrew Smith resigned from the company - so the new team arrived too late for me. There was only one of me by that point and you can do three people's work for so long before you come to a conclusion that nothing will change and you walk away.

It's interesting to hear the inside story rather than just the external story - thank you.

 

[Snow1964]

As I understand it, you are only entitled to redundancy pay if you've been employed for 2 years or more. Any recent recruits might be wondering if they should jump ship ahead of the queue (though I guess there's a notice period which would limit the immediate effect?).

If employer is insolvent, and you are made redundant, can still claim arrears of pay, pay in lieu of notice etc. (subject to a statutory weekly cap of £571)

However cannot also get unemployment benefit etc for same period (they reduce it so can’t have both for same period)

Nothing to stop someone applying for another job, from minute you know company is in administration.

 

[317 forever]

If Yellow Buses does collapse without securing a new buyer, many (even if not all) services would surely be registered by Go South Coast.

Otherwise, I think First would be a logical purchaser, depending on price and rescue costs. First do of course have other operations nearby - in Weymouth (even reaching Poole) and Southampton/Fareham/Portsmouth.

 

[Megafuss]

If Yellow Buses does collapse without securing a new buyer, many (even if not all) services would surely be registered by Go South Coast.

Otherwise, I think First would be a logical purchaser, depending on price and rescue costs. First do of course have other operations nearby - in Weymouth (even reaching Poole) and Southampton/Fareham/Portsmouth.

Given Morebus are now offering 2k for "experienced" licence holders, I think Yellow Buses might not have many drivers left for whoever takes them over

 

[Towers]

If Yellow Buses does collapse without securing a new buyer, many (even if not all) services would surely be registered by Go South Coast.

Otherwise, I think First would be a logical purchaser, depending on price and rescue costs. First do of course have other operations nearby - in Weymouth (even reaching Poole) and Southampton/Fareham/Portsmouth.

I wonder if just the logistics of needing a fleet of vehicles, regardless of the rest of the operation, might be enough to guarantee that someone buys it? In these tight times, are most of the large groups in a position to produce an entire fleet of surplus vehicles from within their existing stock? There's unlikely to be sufficient budget to restock the town with brand new motors, so anyone looking to set up in the town without purchasing YB might find themselves struggling?

 

[Roger1973]

As I understand it, you are only entitled to redundancy pay if you've been employed for 2 years or more. Any recent recruits might be wondering if they should jump ship ahead of the queue (though I guess there's a notice period which would limit the immediate effect?).

That (the 2 year rule) is my understanding.

And subject to the disclaimer that I'm not a lawyer, it's theoretically possible but quite rare for employers to sue an (ex) employee for not working out their notice period, and they can only sue for actual losses, e.g. cost of agency worker minus cost of employed worker for the length of the notice period.

If YB drivers are weekly paid, chances are they are on a week's notice (although it doesn't always work like that.)

Given Morebus are now offering 2k for "experienced" licence holders, I think Yellow Buses might not have many drivers left for whoever takes them over

Yes - guess drivers will be doing their sums - anyone who'd get less than that in redundancy is unlikely to lose out by jumping ship now.

Anyone likely to get slightly more will probably be weighing up whether to wait and see or not. (again subject to disclaimers, but from personal experience elsewhere, a TUPE transfer means you keep your continuous service for things like redundancy pay, so staff would not lose out on possible future redundancy pay if they transfer to whoever buys YB.)

 

[PTR 444]

If Yellow Buses does collapse without securing a new buyer, many (even if not all) services would surely be registered by Go South Coast.

Otherwise, I think First would be a logical purchaser, depending on price and rescue costs. First do of course have other operations nearby - in Weymouth (even reaching Poole) and Southampton/Fareham/Portsmouth.

Not convinced First would. They have been shrinking both their Weymouth and Southampton within the past decade so much so that there seems to be no scope for growth.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not convinced First would. They have been shrinking both their Weymouth and Southampton within the past decade so much so that there seems to be no scope for growth.

I'm not convinced First would either. I would say that they haven't really been shrinking their Weymouth operation particularly though in the last decade. They did lose a chunk of work in 2011 but that was because of the Dorset mega tender that Go Ahead won. Otherwise, they have largely consolidated (save the odd frequency reduction on the lesser local services). Of course, everyone is retreating at the moment with passenger figures being down.

I do hope, for the staff's sake, that a solution is agreed upon soon and that their service, terms, and conditions are protected.

 

[PTR 444]

I'm not convinced First would either. I would say that they haven't really been shrinking their Weymouth operation particularly though in the last decade. They did lose a chunk of work in 2011 but that was because of the Dorset mega tender that Go Ahead won. Otherwise, they have largely consolidated (save the odd frequency reduction on the lesser local services). Of course, everyone is retreating at the moment with passenger figures being down.

Not sure if it was within the last decade but First Weymouth definitely used to run a much larger town network. This included routes such as the 5 to Southill Estate, the 6 to Wyke Regis (later extended to Portland Sailing Academy) and the 9 to Lanehouse Estate. Many of these areas now have no bus service at all whatsoever.

 

[MotCO]

I wonder if just the logistics of needing a fleet of vehicles, regardless of the rest of the operation, might be enough to guarantee that someone buys it? In these tight times, are most of the large groups in a position to produce an entire fleet of surplus vehicles from within their existing stock? There's unlikely to be sufficient budget to restock the town with brand new motors, so anyone looking to set up in the town without purchasing YB might find themselves struggling?

If companies are struggling to run services around the country due to staff shortages, and operating reduced timetables post-Covid, there may well be spare buses languishing in garages up and down the country which could be transferred here. Or there could be a load of yellow buses in the Bournemouth area looking for a new home.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

I wonder if just the logistics of needing a fleet of vehicles, regardless of the rest of the operation, might be enough to guarantee that someone buys it? In these tight times, are most of the large groups in a position to produce an entire fleet of surplus vehicles from within their existing stock? There's unlikely to be sufficient budget to restock the town with brand new motors, so anyone looking to set up in the town without purchasing YB might find themselves struggling?

IIRC alot of the fleet are on lease / hire purchase. Sure the leasing company would be happy to lease to anyone in need of a few extra buses, at the very least it saves storage costs.

 

[BenS123]

Yellow Buses does market the Getting About ticket (which includes unlimited travel on all operators within BCP) reasonably well and it also sells well.

However, the business has a lot of partnerships with other companies (it is able to sell megabus tickets, and it operates the megabus route to London, it can sell joint tickets with GoldenTour buses etc etc).

I did work with them on work experience just a few weeks ago and all their staff were so good, their priority being passenger experience.

I sincerely hope their jobs are safe, and I hope the company can continue running bearing in mind how it has just celebrated its 120th birthday and it is so sad that 6 days after their birthday they have to go into administration.

 

[dgl]

Regarding First buying them and what's happening in Weymouth, I gather most of the recent service reductions in Weymouth are more due to driver shortages than anything else, the only stuff that's really been cut in the last decade were the services that were only viable with the now non-existent council subsidies (the 5, 6 and 9). Remember everything First run in Weymouth is commercial with no subsidies and it seems to be doing alright for them at the moment.
First do seem to have sorted a lot of their previous issues and bound with that success might want to see if they can bring that to another area, I doubt they'd be paying top dollar for Yellow Buses and they might think that it's worth having a go.

Will certainly be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Dorsetbus]

Rumour has it that its nat ex thats been im talks with yellows. But that there biggest interest is in the yard.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

I was lucky enough to ride some Yellow Buses (two Volvo B9TL Wright Gemini 2s - one on the 1b and another one on the 6, a Volvo B5TL Wright Gemini 3 on the 5 and a Volvo B7TL ELC Vyking on the Busters Beach Bus) then. Sad to see them go, they have a nice variety of buses.

Not surprising I guess. Not big enough to have sufficient financial resources to weather difficult times and not supported by a big group. Probably no great money spinning routes - if there were Go Ahead would compete.

I would think the administrators would find a buyer for the business though, even if it is £1 without any debt. There seems to be a reasonable fleet, not too old, and nowadays you aren't worried about taking on a workforce with underlying redundancy risk - the danger is too few staff not too many.

The Bournemouth Echo article says:
Yellow Buses, which trades as Bournemouth Transport Limited, has been struggling like all bus companies thanks to the “challenges” of COVID and the lifestyle habit changes which have followed – such as people working from home.
The statement added: “Negotiations with a large national operator have entered the final stages and we hope to be able to conclude within a matter of days.

So who might the 'large national operator' be?
Arriva - nowhere near and no ambitions whatsoever - no
First - close geographically to the west and to not far to the east - would make sense - but not shown any signs of ambition either
Stagecoach - close geographically to the east, have recently still been taking some opportunities (eg Arriva Guildford) but you get the impression they are would be pretty wary
National Express - nowhere near and have limited their ambitions - unless there is a good fit for coaching perhaps?
Go Ahead - the obvious buyer but the big conundrum - here we have one of the few places where there is still genuine on-the-road competition. Would the CMA stop Go Ahead trying to buy even if it resulted in a virtual closure of the business? Are they that stupid....? Even Go Ahead have been reining in their ambitions a bit recently, service cuts in the north east, retrenchment in East Anglia.
Transdev - I can't see it - a long way from their patch

More interesting times......

I spoke to a Yellow Buses driver (the B5TL Gemini 3 on the 5 precisely) and he said, rule out morebus taking over YB. They are not allowed to do that due to franchising laws etc.

 

[Dorsetbus]

I was lucky enough to ride some Yellow Buses (two Volvo B9TL Wright Gemini 2s - one on the 1b and another one on the 6, a Volvo B5TL Wright Gemini 3 on the 5 and a Volvo B7TL ELC Vyking on the Busters Beach Bus) then. Sad to see them go, they have a nice variety of buses.



I spoke to a Yellow Buses driver (the B5TL Gemini 3 on the 5 precisely) and he said, rule out morebus taking over YB. They are not allowed to do that due to franchising laws etc.

Morebus will just wait for them to collapse and take the network for free.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Morebus will just wait for them to collapse and take the network for free.

After all, not much needs to be done - most of YB's routes do duplicate with morebus equivalents for most of their lengths.

 

[DelayRepay]

It's mentioned on Yellows' website that the monthly payroll was met (29th being the last Friday of the month) however drivers are paid weekly. One wonders if some cash flow forecasting has been undertaken knowing what the calls will be on cash from September onwards (when Government support ends) and they've concluded it cannot be met from that date. The administration would affect suppliers primarily, who'd join the list of creditors unless there was a quick exit from administration. Whether they'd get what they were owed depends on available funds.
The issues came to a head when Andrew was the MD, the current management team were appointed mid 2017 and they've had to fix the mess. Early on in their time they realised what the problem was and reverted the bus network to the pre Jan 2017 set of routes with some variations. I've mentioned previously just how dependent Yellows were on the National Express revenues from two routes - it was these which propped up the business and were the primary generator of profits. Losing that turnover made the issues of 2017 worse. There were panic changes put through to a new network as the company realised it was losing money and passengers - each change at 8 week intervals just encouraged staff to leave for more 'stable' work.
My second stint (through much of 2017) was akin to firefighting. It was shocking just how much the business had gone wrong in just 13 months. Whilst I'd seen a lot in my time away and knew a thing or two about firefighting it took months to work out - by which time I'd found somewhere else to work.
My resignation went in on the same day Andrew Smith resigned from the company - so the new team arrived too late for me. There was only one of me by that point and you can do three people's work for so long before you come to a conclusion that nothing will change and you walk away.

It's interesting to see the view from inside.

Do you think that if we'd not had the pandemic and everything that followed, they would have been able to turn things around?

 

[PTR 444]

After all, not much needs to be done - most of YB's routes do duplicate with morebus equivalents for most of their lengths.

For certain routes, it would most likely be a case of extending current Morebus services over them, such as the m2 from Southbourne to Christchurch and U4 from University to Bearwood. Other areas such as Cranleigh Road, Springbourne, Townsend and Muscliffe will probably need dedicated services, since they are away from the existing Morebus network.

 

[Deerfold]

I spoke to a Yellow Buses driver (the B5TL Gemini 3 on the 5 precisely) and he said, rule out morebus taking over YB. They are not allowed to do that due to franchising laws etc.

I'm not too sure there's any franchising laws in the area.

 

[Snow1964]

It's interesting to see the view from inside.

Do you think that if we'd not had the pandemic and everything that followed, they would have been able to turn things around?

If they collapsed during the busy tourist season, then not going to have been raking it in during the winter.

But staff shortages might have been its downfall, couldn’t provide good seasonal service on the lucrative routes, and at same time serve its baseline core too.

I guess it’s viability depends on how much it was exposed to interest rate rises (if lots of buses funded by borrowed money), fuel costs, and long term liabilities with variable rates (eg mortgages and charges)

 

[Western Sunset]

Some of the smoothest buses in the fleet are about half a dozen ex-Isle of Man double-deckers. They still have some Manx branding inside, if you know where to look.