Timetable Books From December 2022 Timetable Change

[Chriso]

I was very pleasantly surprised to see the return of South Eastern printed timetables for the non metro routes .

Is anyone aware of any other TOCs bringing them back?

 

[route101]

GWR and Two Northern Line guides are the only printed rail timetables I have found in the last few years.

 

[Basil Jet]

GWR and Two Northern Line guides are the only printed rail timetables I have found in the last few years.

The East Suffolk Line had a tourist leaflet with timetable in it in the summer, and might have a new one now.

 

[67thave]

I was very pleasantly surprised to see the return of South Eastern printed timetables for the non metro routes.

Yet the lady at the London Bridge ticket office said that they don't have printed timetables anymore yesterday!
Could you please inform me of where I could pick some up?

 

[Chriso]

The information office at Victoria outside the South Eastern gate line had a load for each route plus the racks at Maidstone East were full of them last week. I reckon the Charing Cross info desk will probably have stock too

 

[route101]

Do LNER still print the timetable book?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I was very pleasantly surprised to see the return of South Eastern printed timetables for the non metro routes .

Is anyone aware of any other TOCs bringing them back?

I sincerely hope other TOCs aren’t. The railway is haemorrhaging enough money as it is without spending money printing these. Timetables often end up getting picked up, used once and then discarded. An environmental and financial waste.

Much more sensible to provide downloadable pdfs which people can print out themselves if they really want to.

Across Europe printed timetables are rightly a rareity.

 

[67thave]

The information office at Victoria outside the South Eastern gate line had a load for each route plus the racks at Maidstone East were full of them last week. I reckon the Charing Cross info desk will probably have stock too

Thanks. I'll try to get some as soon as I can.
On another note, I managed to snag a May 2022 timetable for Greater Anglia services from Ipswich to Felixstowe and Lowestoft today at Liverpool Street.
The leaflet is labeled "Explore the East Suffolk Lines".

 

[robert thomas]

I sincerely hope other TOCs aren’t. The railway is haemorrhaging enough money as it is without spending money printing these. Timetables often end up getting picked up, used once and then discarded. An environmental and financial waste.

Much more sensible to provide downloadable pdfs which people can print out themselves if they really want to.

Across Europe printed timetables are rightly a rareity.

Thankfully incorrect. I had no problem finding printed timetable leaflets in France and Switzerland recently. I do not have a mobile phone and rely on the printed material.

 

[route101]

Thankfully incorrect. I had no problem finding printed timetable leaflets in France and Switzerland recently. I do not have a mobile phone and rely on the printed material.

What were the timetables for in France and Switzerland?

I do find looking at mobile screen for timetables fiddly, often quicker thumbing through a paper timetable.

Scotrail don't publish anything anymore

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Thankfully incorrect. I had no problem finding printed timetable leaflets in France and Switzerland recently. I do not have a mobile phone and rely on the printed material.

Those are the rarity, not spotted any in Germany, Netherlands, Austria and several others.

 

[route101]

Occasionally I have found a pamphlet Thalys type of leaflet but good five years ago now.

 

[Goldfish62]

Thankfully the best bus operators and local authorities still produce printed bus timetable booklets because they want to attract custom, unlike the railways where it's increasingly a take it or leave it approach.

 

[MikeWM]

Thankfully the best bus operators and local authorities still produce printed bus timetable booklets because they want to attract custom, unlike the railways where it's increasingly a take it or leave it approach.

100% agree. The cost of producing printed timetables is negligible compared to the cost of pretty much else involved in running a railway, and having that information to hand in an attractive format for potential customers probably ends up paying for itself many times over. Good businesses know that sometimes you spend money in ways that may seem not entirely necessary and/or to provide information about your products in a format that some people prefer, in order to attract custom.

I also think it would be a lot harder to get away with this 'timetable of the day' and 'cancelling by 10pm the night before' nonsense, that the railway has suddenly become plagued with, if there were more hard-copy timetables available around stations. It is increasingly difficult at many stations to find any printed information whatsoever showing what is supposed to be running.

 

[gaillark]

I sincerely hope other TOCs aren’t. The railway is haemorrhaging enough money as it is without spending money printing these. Timetables often end up getting picked up, used once and then discarded. An environmental and financial waste.
Much more sensible to provide downloadable pdfs which people can print out themselves if they really want to.

I disagree. Printed timetables should always be available. A timetable is like a shopfront.
The problem with operator specific timetables is that many do not show the complete service between two given locations for example LNER do not show any XC or TP services between York and Edinburgh. Ordinary public just want to know what time trains are from A to B and that's where a printed timetable is worth.

Could not TOC's could introduce advertising within printed timetables to offset cost of production. I do agree that some people take a timetable and use it once but this superficial waste could be offset by passengers having to ask for one and having a smaller print run.
I do fully agree with @MikeWM above in his comments.

Personally speaking I have been put off from the railway by the constant race to the bottom, lack of comfort, lack of on-board service, lack of information, lack of reliability and accurate timetable information even on the day. To be frank my business travel has evaporated on the railway (was well over 22k annual spend mainly first class) and it won't come back as the car and airlines have gained. Railway Profressionals please take note.

 

[xydancer]

Those are the rarity, not spotted any in Germany, Netherlands, Austria and several others

I was in Germany just before Christmas where printed DB timetables were widely available - and new ones on racks in advance of the December changeover date.

DB have stopped printing their timetable book, although pdfs of tables are available online. There is still a printed 1000+ page Baden-Württemberg comprehensive timetable, though. Cost 12 Euro from DB travel centres, some bookshops and even available on Amazon.

Local U-bahn folders were mostly easy to find too. Printed bus/tram/train route maps also still seem to be the order of the day, although bus timetables tend to be more patchy.

Switzerland, on the other hand, now seems to be a big zero for anything printed.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I disagree. Printed timetables should always be available. A timetable is like a shopfront.

I would argue these days to most the railway shop window is their App.

Airlines used to have printed timetables, I’ve not seen one for years yet that hasn’t discouraged air travel!

 

[Ken H]

I would argue these days to most the railway shop window is their App.

Airlines used to have printed timetables, I’ve not seen one for years yet that hasn’t discouraged air travel!

you dont use an airline to go from Keighley to Bradford.

 

[MikeWM]

I would argue these days to most the railway shop window is their App.

Many people don't use apps. Myself, for example. Yes, many do, but as I said above, a good business doesn't curtail its reach by 'nudging' people in directions they don't want to go and not caring how many people that leaves behind.

I do use RealTrainTimes, Traksy, National Rail Enquiries, etc. and also have the PDF of the full NRT on an iPad mini that I usually have with me. But I'm an 'expert' and know how to navigate these to find out - most of the time - what is actually going on. Even so, much of the time I'd far rather use a printed timetable to plan connections, or see the general pattern of service, or quickly see when the first or last train runs. Or indeed to claim delay repay, which is becoming an increasingly complex task as it is totally unclear what trains are now supposed to be running on a daily basis.

Airlines used to have printed timetables, I’ve not seen one for years yet that hasn’t discouraged air travel!

But trains aren't aeroplanes, and most people don't expect the same thing from a train as from an aeroplane.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

But trains aren't aeroplanes, and most people don't expect the same thing from a train as from an aeroplane.

They used to however and times change.

I suspect RF UK won’t give a balanced view as we are largely interested in trains and thus find timetables helpful to look at a service along a line of route. I admit to liking timetables myself. However…

You say many people don’t use apps, well there’s many many many more people who do and they tend to look confused when given a timetable. It’s just the way technology moves on with the younger generation!

 

[MikeWM]

You say many people don’t use apps, well there’s many many many more people who do and they tend to look confused when given a timetable. It’s just the way technology moves on with the younger generation!

I don't disagree with that, and I'm not saying there shouldn't be apps etc. Websites like RTT are incredibly useful - to the extent that I'd have great difficulty without it now.

But I'm very wary of this idea that just because there is a new way of doing things, that some people clearly prefer, we should quickly eliminate the old ways. Some people prefer books to reading on a Kindle (or similar), so I think it is a rather good thing that publishers continued to publish real books too. Equally, many people prefer vinyl over CDs, and both above streaming, so it is a good thing they are still being produced too.

Eventually old ways can become obsolete, but continually 'nudging' people into new behaviours risks leaving many people deciding they'll go elsewhere, and losing potential new custom at the same time. And the railway currently appears very good at trying to do this - making paying in cash difficult, removing ticket offices, making it harder to buy or collect paper tickets, making it almost impossible to consult a hard-copy timetable to see what trains should be running and when, etc.

 

[Goldfish62]

I would argue these days to most the railway shop window is their App.

That's probably at least in part due to a lack of confidence from one day to the next about what the railway decides it's running.

I also think it would be a lot harder to get away with this 'timetable of the day' and 'cancelling by 10pm the night before' nonsense, that the railway has suddenly become plagued with, if there were more hard-copy timetables available around stations. It is increasingly difficult at many stations to find any printed information whatsoever showing what is supposed to be running.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. The railways would rather we didn't know the timetable so they can just remove trains when they feel like it, up to the night before.

 

[Mike99]

I was in Germany just before Christmas where printed DB timetables were widely available - and new ones on racks in advance of the December changeover date.

DB have stopped printing their timetable book, although pdfs of tables are available online. There is still a printed 1000+ page Baden-Württemberg comprehensive timetable, though. Cost 12 Euro from DB travel centres, some bookshops and even available on Amazon.

Local U-bahn folders were mostly easy to find too. Printed bus/tram/train route maps also still seem to be the order of the day, although bus timetables tend to be more patchy.

Switzerland, on the other hand, now seems to be a big zero for anything printed.

Hi, Do you have a link to the Baden-Wurttemberg timetable, I've looked on Amazon but it couldn't work out what I meant. Many Thanks in Advance

 

[infobleep]

They used to however and times change.

I suspect RF UK won’t give a balanced view as we are largely interested in trains and thus find timetables helpful to look at a service along a line of route. I admit to liking timetables myself. However…

You say many people don’t use apps, well there’s many many many more people who do and they tend to look confused when given a timetable. It’s just the way technology moves on with the younger generation!

Apart from the National Rail Enquiries app. That doesn't seem to move on with the younger generation.

I personally prefer looking stuff up electronically as it's easier.

It would be helpful if my April 1944 Bradshaw was available electronically from a database but who would want to compile and program such a thing? Not me.

 

[xydancer]

Hi, Do you have a link to the Baden-Wurttemberg timetable, I've looked on Amazon but it couldn't work out what I meant. Many Thanks in Advance

It's on amazon UK here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/bwegt-Kursbuch-Baden-Württemberg-2023-Regionalverbindungen-Nahverkehrsgesellschaft/dp/3943551180/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1J4M2ZZ4NKY14&keywords=bwegt&qid=1672834070&s=books&sprefix=bwegt,stripbooks,214&sr=1-2

It says 'map' but it's not. It's the 1060-page book.

But book+postage comes out cheaper to buy from Amazon.de: https://www.amazon.de/bwegt-Kursbuch-Baden-Württemberg-2023-Regionalverbindungen-Nahverkehrsgesellschaft/dp/3943551180

And having done some digging, cheaper still from Book Depository, who charge slightly more for the book but have free shipping: https://www.bookdepository.com/bwegt-Kursbuch-Baden-Württemberg-2023-Nahverkehrsgesellschaft-Baden-Württemberg/9783943551181?ref=grid-view&qid=1672834202305&sr=1-1

 

[Mike99]

It's on amazon UK here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/bwegt-Kursbuch-Baden-Württemberg-2023-Regionalverbindungen-Nahverkehrsgesellschaft/dp/3943551180/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1J4M2ZZ4NKY14&keywords=bwegt&qid=1672834070&s=books&sprefix=bwegt,stripbooks,214&sr=1-2

It says 'map' but it's not. It's the 1060-page book.

But book+postage comes out cheaper to buy from Amazon.de: https://www.amazon.de/bwegt-Kursbuch-Baden-Württemberg-2023-Regionalverbindungen-Nahverkehrsgesellschaft/dp/3943551180

And having done some digging, cheaper still from Book Depository, who charge slightly more for the book but have free shipping: https://www.bookdepository.com/bwegt-Kursbuch-Baden-Württemberg-2023-Nahverkehrsgesellschaft-Baden-Württemberg/9783943551181?ref=grid-view&qid=1672834202305&sr=1-1

Thanks for taking the time to sort this info out

 

[dk1]

Always good to see printed timetables available.

 

[route101]

They used to however and times change.

I suspect RF UK won’t give a balanced view as we are largely interested in trains and thus find timetables helpful to look at a service along a line of route. I admit to liking timetables myself. However…

You say many people don’t use apps, well there’s many many many more people who do and they tend to look confused when given a timetable. It’s just the way technology moves on with the younger generation!

I suspect some young people have never seen a timetable, from using a journey planner or simply booking A to B. They simply check of their train or bus is running on a app.

 

[Goldfish62]

I suspect some young people have never seen a timetable, from using a journey planner or simply booking A to B. They simply check of their train or bus is running on a app.

You're assuming that you can get a mobile signal everywhere, which is simply not even remotely true.

Apps do not show the overall level of service or easily allow planning of travel options. Printed timetables do a heck of a lot to promote and advertise the whole service that is available.

 

[dk1]

I suspect some young people have never seen a timetable, from using a journey planner or simply booking A to B. They simply check of their train or bus is running on a app.

Which is a crying shame. There is something very fulfilling about perusing a railway timetable from top to bottom.