TPE Liverpool-Newcastle via Manchester Victoria

[Crossover]

I don't follow. There's still 1tph Northern from Manchester Victoria to Huddersfield...

I think Paul means those two are the ones that are left, not the ones that have gone

 

[Flying Snail]

Yes. A Northern service from Manchester Victoria to Stalybridge and a Northern service from Manchester Victoria to Huddersfield.

The second Vic-Stalybridge giving Ashton 3tph was only introduced in the last year/18 months, the summer 2012 table only has 1 Huddersfield and 1 Stalybridge.

That begs the question why introduce an extra service when the plan to divert the TPE services meant that the extra local would have to be removed a year later?

 

[WatcherZero]

Was funded as an addon increase in services, unfortunately the timetable recast meant it wouldnt be possible to operate any more, they did try to retain it.

 

[ianhr]

I tried the new service today for the first time between Leeds and Man Vic.

The 08.44 from Leeds ran to time and was about 1/2 full. As usual with TPE lots of seats with reservation tickets unclaimed. Slow running Stalybridge-Man Vic but arrived on time.

The 16.52 return left Man Vic well filled, 2 mins late but a much better exit from Manchester than the Piccadilly route, accelerating up the incline to Miles Platting then an acceptable PSR round the curve. Slow running Ashton Moss-Stalybridge due to TSR. 3-4 min down at Huddersfield. The usual pathetic performance Huddersfield-Leeds: half power/coasting/over cautious driving. Slowed at Ravensthorpe, almost a stand at Mary Anne and 10-15 mph approach Holbeck-Leeds despite green signals, and a 5 min late arrival.

Overall not a much better time than from Piccadilly and I cannot see how electrification will make much difference without substantial investment to increase track capacity, revise signalling and lift speed restrictions.

The 50 min average timing is still very slack, does not utilise the power of the 185s ( I think the crews have been instructed to drive for fuel economy), and in any event is obviously seldom achieved!

 

[turboslug]

on sundays the 10.03 Liverpool to Newcastle service is booked to go on departure from Manchester Victoria to go via guide bridge to Stalybridge via the Philips park to ashburys route, a friend of mine was on it & asked the Liverpool conductor if it was a one off & was told this train is booked to go via this route, when was last time a passenger train was booked to run over this route as ive only ever seen freight or empty stock go this route.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

on sundays the 10.03 Liverpool to Newcastle service is booked to go on departure from Manchester Victoria to go via guide bridge to Stalybridge via the Philips park to ashburys route, a friend of mine was on it & asked the Liverpool conductor if it was a one off & was told this train is booked to go via this route, when was last time a passenger train was booked to run over this route as ive only ever seen freight or empty stock go this route.

I should think this is so that the route can be used more widely during the electrification of Miles Platting-Stalybridge.
Surprisingly, it only takes 5 minutes more than the direct route.

 

[thealexweb]

How busy has the new route been overall?

Last Saturday I was at Manchester Victoria and noted that there was less than 15 people on the 8pm service to Newcastle. Even for the time of day it was very sparse inside and then they coupled up another 185 set to make it a six car service. There was far more people on my service to Clitheroe (single 150) for comparison.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

How busy has the new route been overall?
Last Saturday I was at Manchester Victoria and noted that there was less than 15 people on the 8pm service to Newcastle. Even for the time of day it was very sparse inside and then they coupled up another 185 set to make it a six car service. There was far more people on my service to Clitheroe (single 150) for comparison.

My off-peak trains have been lightly loaded.
On my last trip from Victoria to Liverpool, two passengers expecting a call at Warrington Central were told to stay on to Liverpool (from where the same train goes back via Warrington to Scarborough).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

on sundays the 10.03 Liverpool to Newcastle service is booked to go on departure from Manchester Victoria to go via guide bridge to Stalybridge via the Philips park to ashburys route, a friend of mine was on it & asked the Liverpool conductor if it was a one off & was told this train is booked to go via this route, when was last time a passenger train was booked to run over this route as ive only ever seen freight or empty stock go this route.

Casting my mind back a considerable length of time, would my memory be correct in thinking a Nottingham to Blackpool summer service took this particular route

 

[northwichcat]

My off-peak trains have been lightly loaded.
On my last trip from Victoria to Liverpool, two passengers expecting a call at Warrington Central were told to stay on to Liverpool (from where the same train goes back via Warrington to Scarborough).

I think it's a fail by TPE for not publishing connections from Victoria in to the Hull and Scarborough services. Some people may think if they miss the Newcastle train then they need to wait an hour or go to Piccadilly.

 

[30907]

Casting my mind back a considerable length of time, would my memory be correct in thinking a Nottingham to Blackpool summer service took this particular route

There was certainly the Parkeston-Glasgow/Edinburgh around 1980.

 

[Johnny Lewis]

Actually 'The European' used the line from Ashton Moss North Jn. to Denton Jn. which then enabled it to call at Stockport. The route taken by the new TPE service would then mean the only route to Sheffield was via Hyde and New Mills Central.

 

[david_g]

Actually 'The European' used the line from Ashton Moss North Jn. to Denton Jn. which then enabled it to call at Stockport. The route taken by the new TPE service would then mean the only route to Sheffield was via Hyde and New Mills Central.

Not when I used it. The Hazel Grove chord didn't open until 1986 so going to Sheffield via Stockport wasn't an option.

 

[Dunc108]

I think it's a fail by TPE for not publishing connections from Victoria in to the Hull and Scarborough services. Some people may think if they miss the Newcastle train then they need to wait an hour or go to Piccadilly.

I think they need to market it better aswell, I haven't seen many posters around stations shouting from the rooftops about the new route. Imagine the confusion when the Ordsall Chord opens and lots more is diverted over Miles Platting.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How busy has the new route been overall?

Last Saturday I was at Manchester Victoria and noted that there was less than 15 people on the 8pm service to Newcastle. Even for the time of day it was very sparse inside and then they coupled up another 185 set to make it a six car service. There was far more people on my service to Clitheroe (single 150) for comparison.

Clitheroe services are well established from Victoria though, the Blackpool services were pretty mixed when they were reintroduced in 2008 but now they're as busy as any other service into Manchester. I can't imagine who would want to be heading to Newcastle as late as 8pm? I would also imagine most on the Clitheroe were mostly local people heading back to Bolton or a little further after an evening out in Manchester than long distance travellers..

 

[MidnightFlyer]

From my experience of the late evening Victoria-Clitheroe trains, a fair amount will alight at Bolton, and at least half of the original amount will be off by Bromley Cross. The same very broadly rings true with peak hour services too.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

From my experience of the late evening Victoria-Clitheroe trains, a fair amount will alight at Bolton, and at least half of the original amount will be off by Bromley Cross. The same very broadly rings true with peak hour services too.

As a possible matter that concerns part of this travel pattern, has there, in the last 12 months, been a reduction of directly available bus travel between Bolton, Blackburn and Clitheroe ? For some reason, service 225 rang a bell.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

As a possible matter that concerns part of this travel pattern, has there, in the last 12 months, been a reduction of directly available bus travel between Bolton, Blackburn and Clitheroe ? For some reason, service 225 rang a bell.

Lancashire United have chopped and changed a lot over the last 18 months or so, and their website deletes old news items so I cannot check, however I believe the 225 became the 22 between Clitheroe and Blackburn and everything between Blackburn and Bolton was standardised as 1. That said, whether or not the vehicles that work the 22 becomes the 1 service I do not know; they would have 25 mins in the half hour to wait on the bus station if they were self-contained.

 

[Deerfold]

Lancashire United have chopped and changed a lot over the last 18 months or so, and their website deletes old news items so I cannot check, however I believe the 225 became the 22 between Clitheroe and Blackburn and everything between Blackburn and Bolton was standardised as 1. That said, whether or not the vehicles that work the 22 becomes the 1 service I do not know; they would have 25 mins in the half hour to wait on the bus station if they were self-contained.

http://www.lancashirebus.co.uk/cmsUploads/route/files/LU22march2014Web.pdf says:

From 16th March 2014
In order to improve reliability, service 22 has been divided into two separate services, numbered 22 and 23.
Service 22 operates between Clitheroe and Blackburn whilst new service 23 operates between Blackburn,
Shadsworth and Royal Blackburn Hospital. Extra journeys have been added on service 22 to run during
weekday mornings and afternoons at peak times to increase capacity at these busy periods.
Evening and Sunday journeys are renumbered from 22A to 22.
Buses on service 22 will all start at Blackburn Bus Station, therefore buses to Clitheroe will no longer serve the
Astley Gate bus stop at Debenhams.
The frequency of these services remains at every 30 minutes during the day on Mondays to Saturdays.

Earlier the 225 Clitheroe to Bolton split into 2 - the 22 and the 1 with the 1 being more frequent (at the time I think it was every 20 minutes and the 22 every half hour). The 1 now seems to be every 15 minutes with additional short runs every 15 minutes.

 

[nano77]

From my experience of the late evening Victoria-Clitheroe trains, a fair amount will alight at Bolton, and at least half of the original amount will be off by Bromley Cross. The same very broadly rings true with peak hour services too.

Except the last one.

I sometimes get the 22.21 from Bolton to Clitheroe on a Saturday night and I absolutely hate it. Always full and standing, mostly drunk 40-50 year olds, rarely get a seat even after Blackburn.

 

[faltskog36abba]

I remember travelling from Victoria on the Hadfield/Glossop train via the Philips Park to Ashbury's route in 1997/1998.
This was due to some engineering or over head electrification work and this lasted for ten days.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I remember travelling from Victoria on the Hadfield/Glossop train via the Philips Park to Ashbury's route in 1997/1998.
This was due to some engineering or over head electrification work and this lasted for ten days.

What units worked that service ?

 

[faltskog36abba]

It may have been 1999/2000 and it was a class 150. Sorry I got the earlier date mixed up.

 

[Geeves]

It would of been when they built the M60 motorway bridge and had to change the OHLE to smaller type ones towards Guide Bridge which opened in 2000

 

[northwichcat]

According to TPE the new service is very popular

Chris Nutton, programme director for First TransPennine Express said: ""Our new direct service between Liverpool and Newcastle via Manchester Victoria has already proved very popular with customers. We have been able to introduce this new service as a result of the investment projects that have been ongoing.

 

[Dunc108]

According to TPE the new service is very popular

It must be gaining enough patronage for them to say that even if some off-peak services have been lighly loaded, yet travel at other times and it can attract a good crowd. Holiday periods it should be even busier. I can only wonder as time goes on the prospect of a non-stop service to Manchester will be an even more tantalising prospect especially with odds of getting a seat being much higher.