Trainline Nightmare with their mobile tickets!

[Tabitha]

Hi,
I'm hoping you can help me, though I think the answer may be I can't win as trainline say they have no complaints process. This is my story from my recent journey. I hope I don't seem naive for getting a mobile ticket in the first place but I had no indication it would disappear after one day.

For my first proper family holiday in 3 years I bought train tickets at £240 (2 adults/1 child with railcard) from Trainline with the assumption I'd be getting safe tickets for travel and nothing would go wrong. I bought an off peak open return a month in advance to get the best deal after checking National Rail guidelines that we could break our journey overnight on the return journey. We were travelling 7 hours up to Aviemore from Leeds, having 4 days there, then 2 nights in Edinbugh to break our long journey.
I purchased a mobile ticket after reading on the Trainline website that this worked exactly the same as an e ticket, and I had safely travelled on e tickets several times before. There was nothing to suggest this wouldn't be the case.
After travelling up on our outbound portion, which you activate before travel, I realised that the ticket disappeared off the app on the second day. I was a bit nervous so I got in touch with Trainline customer service Tues 12th before travelling to Edinburgh on Thursday 14th. I needed reassurance that this ticket would be fine, but instead Trainline told me that you could NOT break your journey overnight and the ticket only lasted one day. Trainline said that this rule was national rail regulations not theirs.
I had several days back and forth and each time Trainline said I'd have to purchase a separate ticket for one of the journeys, that they could not replace my mobile ticket with an e ticket, and this was National Rail rules and they just sold the tickets.
The day before the travel to Edinburgh I called national rail and checked and they confirmed that my ticket (validation code 3V) was fine for breaking journey overnight I just needed to travel on off peak trains. The national rail worker kindly put us on a threeway conference call with Trainline. Trainline continued to insist that both I and National Rail were wrong, and that there was nothing they could do about the ticket they had sold me.
I asked if they could replace the ticket with 2 separate journeys, or an e ticket, or pick up a paper ticket from Aviemore train station or to refund me my return portion but they refused all of it.
In the end Nat Rail advised I could chance it and explain to the conductor but this would be at their discretion so I may be fined/made to pay another ticket at cost of £113.
I had at this point escalated my issue via email to Trainline to speak to a manager and was assured this would happen in 48- 72 hrs.
I chanced the journey with an unactivated ticket, but was terrified throughout as I was illegally travelling with an unactivated ticket. If staff had made me activate ticket I'd have had to pay £200 on the next train from Edinburgh to Leeds by this late point.
After arriving in Edinburgh I raised the issue with Trainline on Twitter who agreed that I was right, I could break my journey. They then advised me that with their mobile tickets you should travel with unactivated ticket "on discretion of service staff" which would be the same as travelling without a ticket.
I tried for 7 days to speak to a manager via email on Trainline. (Their phone service is £3.60 a minute) Every day a customer service rep responded to say a manager will be back to me in 48-72 hours. No manager responded. A manager responded on day 8, with one line saying I can't have a refund if used ticket, giving no indication she had any knowledge or awareness of the actual complaint, only that she thought I wanted a refund. I am still messaging them to say it's a formal complaint, they answer every day to say "sorry you can't break your journey" or "we can't refund you as you have activated your ticket"
I want the following:
1. Trainline to accept they gave me wrong advice over email, for several days, which contradicts the advice given to me by Trainline via Twitter, and National Rail.
2. Trainline to accept their website does not make clear mobile tickets are not usable over 2 days, and in the same way other tickets are. Trainline to amend their website to warn other customers.
3. Trainline to compensate me only for the journey where I was forced to travel without a valid ticket, for £113 which is the cost from Aviemore to Edinburgh for 2 adults and 1 child.
4. Trainline to accept they have not sufficiently managed my complaint so far.

Is there anything else I can do?

 

[Bletchleyite]

To confirm you did make your journey successfully without paying extra?

If so, there's not a lot you can do other than to never ever use m-tickets again; they are a flawed format and just need to go away.

 

[Tabitha]

To confirm you did make your journey successfully without paying extra?

If so, there's not a lot you can do other than to never ever use m-tickets again; they are a flawed format and just need to go away.

Hi, I did, yes, to my relief. But it was so very stressful and I think they need to say on their website that you can't use them for more than one day...but I appreciate there's probably not a lot I can do I'm just extremely frustrated and feel ripped off - if I was travelling at discretion of staff I didn't want to be paying £240 to do it!

 

[Llanigraham]

If their "advice" is stated in any advert of their's then perhaps a complaint to the Advertising Standards Agency might be useful.

 

[Tabitha]

If their "advice" is stated in any advert of their's then perhaps a complaint to the Advertising Standards Agency might be useful.

Oh that's a good idea actually Thanks!

 

[L401CJF]

The open return disappearing on Trainline seems to be very common. Ive had many tickets in work on my trains recently, via Trainline, all open return, all tickets valid for the journey upon checking their confirmations etc, journey details visible in app, but no code to scan. This seems to be a daily thing. Of course once I checked it out and confirmed it was trainline at fault, I let them continue their journey hassle free.

Ill give the same advice I gave those people - avoid Trainline and avoid M-tickets!

Also get a lot of people with operator specific tickets on Trainline, eg Northern only. After having a browse myself through the app myself its very good at showing "Cheapest Fare" which obviously the average person will click, it then says "off peak return" or "any time day return" etc, but to the average person seeing "Northern only" in small print doesnt exactly stand out so they end up thinking its an any train return, then get a bit upset when you tell them its not valid on our (not Northern) trains!

For me as somebody pretty clued up on my tickets its fine, but to the average person, a lot of things arn't clear - many just see a train and dont notice there are multiple operators.

 

[Deafdoggie]

All m-tickets expire at midnight. This is nothing to do with trainline. M-Tickets are a dreadful product, but no TOC cares enough about their passengers to stop issuing them! In that respect Trainline are correct, m-tickets do expire at midnight.
If you buy a flexible ticket off trainline it clearly says "can also be used on..." and lists departures close by that are valid. TOCs like you to believe it's only valid on the train you've purchased I'm not aware of any TOC site that lists alternative departures once you've purchased your ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All m-tickets expire at midnight. This is nothing to do with trainline. M-Tickets are a dreadful product, but no TOC cares enough about their passengers to stop issuing them! In that respect Trainline are correct, m-tickets do expire at midnight.
If you buy a flexible ticket off trainline it clearly says "can also be used on..." and lists departures close by that are valid. TOCs like you to believe it's only valid on the train you've purchased I'm not aware of any TOC site that lists alternative departures once you've purchased your ticket.

They time out at midnight but remain valid per the underlying ticket.

Yes, it's stupid.

 

[miklcct]

They time out at midnight but remain valid per the underlying ticket.

Yes, it's stupid.

Isn't it an accreditation failure then?

 

[Nottingham59]

Can I just check? Trainline claimed to be supplying a national rail open return, which does allow breaks of journey on the return leg, and then actually sold you a format which de-activates at midnight after the first use on the return leg? I

If so, then you could raise a complaint with your local trading standards, though I don't know how far you will get.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Literally every single m-ticket period return has that problem and always has had.

 

[James H]

I bought an off peak open return a month in advance to get the best deal

Just as an FYI - there is no financial advantage to buying an off-peak return in advance of travel. The ticket would have been the same price if you'd bought it on the day. And because you chose Trainline, there will have been an extra booking fee you wouldn't have had to pay if you had bought from the website of any train operating company.

The advice about buying early for better deals pertains to Advance tickets (with a capital A) - the ticket you bought was a walk-up ticket.

(There may be merit in buying the ticket ahead of time if you wanted seat reservations, but that's about it)

 

[Tabitha]

Can I just check? Trainline claimed to be supplying a national rail open return, which does allow breaks of journey on the return leg, and then actually sold you a format which de-activates at midnight after the first use on the return leg? I

If so, then you could raise a complaint with your local trading standards, though I don't know how far you will get.

Hi,
Their website states it's exactly the same as an e ticket except you have to activate beforehand" but it doesn't say once activated it lasts a limited time (that times out before the date I can stop using ticket.
Every exchange I have had with their customer service reps via email Trainline keep insisting this ticket CANT be used with breaks of journey on return leg. But Nat Rail have clarified it can: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/3V
So they sold me ticket, then insisted (after I asked after outbound part cos i didnt know the ticket would disappear until I'd used it outbound) the only way I can use return is on one day - they said repeatedly that was NOT because of mobile tickets but because of nat rail regs. They kept telling me, before my return travel, I'd have to buy a separate extra ticket for the first leg.

big thanks to every reply, this is really helpful for future! I feel quite burnt and frustrated and I certainly have learnt not to use mobile tickets in future! (Or trainline)

 

[Nottingham59]

they said repeatedly that was NOT because of mobile tickets but because of nat rail regs. They kept telling me, before my return travel, I'd have to buy a separate extra ticket for the first leg.

Well if they tried to get more money out of you by knowingly making false statements about national rail regulations, then that is attempted fraud and you should go to the police. Though again, I don't know how far you will get.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well if they tried to get more money out of you by knowingly making false statements about national rail regulations, then that is attempted fraud and you should go to the police. Though again, I don't know how far you will get.

Fraud has to be wilful, this is just incompetent.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Just as an FYI - there is no financial advantage to buying an off-peak return in advance of travel. The ticket would have been the same price if you'd bought it on the day. And because you chose Trainline, there will have been an extra booking fee you wouldn't have had to pay if you had bought from the website of any train operating company.

The advice about buying early for better deals pertains to Advance tickets (with a capital A) - the ticket you bought was a walk-up ticket.

(There may be merit in buying the ticket ahead of time if you wanted seat reservations, but that's about it)

Trainline don't charge booking fees on tickets to travel sameday.

Well if they tried to get more money out of you by knowingly making false statements about national rail regulations, then that is attempted fraud and you should go to the police. Though again, I don't know how far you will get.

The railway, whatever that may be, invented these wretched m-tickets. It's not Trainlines fault. Indeed, they know they expire at midnight, which is more than most TOCs seem to know!

 

[Class800]

Trainline don't charge booking fees on tickets to travel sameday.

The railway, whatever that may be, invented these wretched m-tickets. It's not Trainlines fault. Indeed, they know they expire at midnight, which is more than most TOCs seem to know!

Do e-tickets work correctly with return leg overnight break of journey? I don't really like paper tickets, but with breaks of journey I still use paper

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi,
I'm hoping you can help me, though I think the answer may be I can't win as trainline say they have no complaints process. This is my story from my recent journey. I hope I don't seem naive for getting a mobile ticket in the first place but I had no indication it would disappear after one day.

For my first proper family holiday in 3 years I bought train tickets at £240 (2 adults/1 child with railcard) from Trainline with the assumption I'd be getting safe tickets for travel and nothing would go wrong. I bought an off peak open return a month in advance to get the best deal after checking National Rail guidelines that we could break our journey overnight on the return journey. We were travelling 7 hours up to Aviemore from Leeds, having 4 days there, then 2 nights in Edinbugh to break our long journey.
I purchased a mobile ticket after reading on the Trainline website that this worked exactly the same as an e ticket, and I had safely travelled on e tickets several times before. There was nothing to suggest this wouldn't be the case.
After travelling up on our outbound portion, which you activate before travel, I realised that the ticket disappeared off the app on the second day. I was a bit nervous so I got in touch with Trainline customer service Tues 12th before travelling to Edinburgh on Thursday 14th. I needed reassurance that this ticket would be fine, but instead Trainline told me that you could NOT break your journey overnight and the ticket only lasted one day. Trainline said that this rule was national rail regulations not theirs.
I had several days back and forth and each time Trainline said I'd have to purchase a separate ticket for one of the journeys, that they could not replace my mobile ticket with an e ticket, and this was National Rail rules and they just sold the tickets.
The day before the travel to Edinburgh I called national rail and checked and they confirmed that my ticket (validation code 3V) was fine for breaking journey overnight I just needed to travel on off peak trains. The national rail worker kindly put us on a threeway conference call with Trainline. Trainline continued to insist that both I and National Rail were wrong, and that there was nothing they could do about the ticket they had sold me.
I asked if they could replace the ticket with 2 separate journeys, or an e ticket, or pick up a paper ticket from Aviemore train station or to refund me my return portion but they refused all of it.
In the end Nat Rail advised I could chance it and explain to the conductor but this would be at their discretion so I may be fined/made to pay another ticket at cost of £113.
I had at this point escalated my issue via email to Trainline to speak to a manager and was assured this would happen in 48- 72 hrs.
I chanced the journey with an unactivated ticket, but was terrified throughout as I was illegally travelling with an unactivated ticket. If staff had made me activate ticket I'd have had to pay £200 on the next train from Edinburgh to Leeds by this late point.
After arriving in Edinburgh I raised the issue with Trainline on Twitter who agreed that I was right, I could break my journey. They then advised me that with their mobile tickets you should travel with unactivated ticket "on discretion of service staff" which would be the same as travelling without a ticket.
I tried for 7 days to speak to a manager via email on Trainline. (Their phone service is £3.60 a minute) Every day a customer service rep responded to say a manager will be back to me in 48-72 hours. No manager responded. A manager responded on day 8, with one line saying I can't have a refund if used ticket, giving no indication she had any knowledge or awareness of the actual complaint, only that she thought I wanted a refund. I am still messaging them to say it's a formal complaint, they answer every day to say "sorry you can't break your journey" or "we can't refund you as you have activated your ticket"
I want the following:
1. Trainline to accept they gave me wrong advice over email, for several days, which contradicts the advice given to me by Trainline via Twitter, and National Rail.
2. Trainline to accept their website does not make clear mobile tickets are not usable over 2 days, and in the same way other tickets are. Trainline to amend their website to warn other customers.
3. Trainline to compensate me only for the journey where I was forced to travel without a valid ticket, for £113 which is the cost from Aviemore to Edinburgh for 2 adults and 1 child.
4. Trainline to accept they have not sufficiently managed my complaint so far.

Is there anything else I can do?

Depressingly poor service for reasons others have explained.

My hunch is that you are not going to get any money out of Trainline (esp if you did not actually have to buy extra tickets - hope I have understood that correctly)

There are better train ticket sales websites (including ones often mentioned on this forum by very experienced members) but the advice I usually give to friends and family is to buy their train ticket off a railway company / train operating company and to use the company that is running the train for the majority of the journey they are travelling on - that means if you get into an argument about a ticket validity at least you are not generally arguing with a third party retailer.

I know others will argue that such an approach is not fail-safe and I accept that - but it seems a reasonable rule of thumb to people who just want the UK to have a way simpler railway to travel on with a valid ticket!

 

[OscarH]

Do e-tickets work correctly with return leg overnight break of journey? I don't really like paper tickets, but with breaks of journey I still use paper

They do, they're sent as a PDF to you when you buy them, and that can't be changed or taken from you due to badly designed software or specs like m-tickets, which is one of the main reasons why e-tickets are so much better than m-tickets

 

[Tabitha]

thanks all, I'll certainly NEVER make this m ticket mistake again! (I'm foolishly still trying to email their customer service reps. Today the one I first ever spoke to answered "well if you'd spoken to us before your return travel"...! When he was the EXACT person I'd spoken to who had insisted there was no way I could break journey overnight )

 

[miklcct]

The railway, whatever that may be, invented these wretched m-tickets. It's not Trainlines fault. Indeed, they know they expire at midnight, which is more than most TOCs seem to know!

I believe that the expiry date is coded into the ticket data, right? It's just a simple test case to verify that it will actually expire at 04:30 after the day of expiry when programming the mobile app. I can't think of anything but Trainlines fault here.

 

[danielcanning]

Fraud has to be wilful, this is just incompetent.

I’d argue that this is wilful, this has been a problem since m-tickets were introduced and I find it very hard to believe that TOC’s don’t know about this issue…

 

[James H]

I believe that the expiry date is coded into the ticket data, right? It's just a simple test case to verify that it will actually expire at 04:30 after the day of expiry when programming the mobile app. I can't think of anything but Trainlines fault here.

It's not as simple as that, as the return journey could be undertaken over multiple days from the date of activation.

 

[miklcct]

It's not as simple as that, as the return journey could be undertaken over multiple days from the date of activation.

Can you explain more? For example, if an off-peak return is valid from 21-Apr to 20-May, the return portion will always expire at 04:30 21 May, isn't that simple?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Can you explain more? For example, if an off-peak return is valid from 21-Apr to 20-May, the return portion will always expire at 04:30 21 May, isn't that simple?

Are these problematic m-tickets expiring the return ticket portions at midnight on the initial day of use, whether the journey is completed or not? Is that it?

 

[L401CJF]

Can you explain more? For example, if an off-peak return is valid from 21-Apr to 20-May, the return portion will always expire at 04:30 21 May, isn't that simple?

I think they mean the return portion can be used over a number of days by break of journey in multiple locations if the customer wishes. It expires when the expiry date is reached, or once the journey is completed.

 

[miklcct]

Are these problematic m-tickets expiring the return ticket portions at midnight on the initial day of use, whether the journey is completed or not? Is that it?

This will be a major accreditation failure.

 

[Haywain]

Can you explain more? For example, if an off-peak return is valid from 21-Apr to 20-May, the return portion will always expire at 04:30 21 May, isn't that simple?

The most important thing to know is not to use mTickets.

 

[43301]

Which TOC apps offer e-tickets? So far as I can see all the re-badged Trainline sites (Northern, XC, etc) only offer m-tickets. What about the others? The various First TOCs (TPE, GWR, Avanti) use a different app - does that one offer e-tickets?

 

[Haywain]

Which TOC apps offer e-tickets? So far as I can see all the re-badged Trainline sites (Northern, XC, etc) only offer m-tickets. What about the others? The various First TOCs (TPE, GWR, Avanti) use a different app - does that one offer e-tickets?

LNER app offers eTickets and is really pretty easy to use.