Transpennine Industrial Relations

[Wolfie]

Is it the management team refusing to give the higher pay or is it the DFT refusing to authorise it, with the TPE management team having their arms tied around their back, caught in the middle with little say

You missed the folk who really hold the purse strings, namely HMT.

 

[matacaster]

Revenue goes to the DfT. Profits can be made on management fee receipts - in fact these are more likely because the government is taking the revenue risk.



The same magic money tree the hundreds of billions frittered away on all the Covid madness come from? It’s insulting to peoples’ intelligence to suggest “there’s no money” when the government just essentially socialised the entire economy.

Personally I’d be fully in favour of those who benefited from furlough to be subjected to a higher tax rate to recoup some of that expense over the next few years.

The govt doesn't actually have any money. What they do have is taxes paid for by the population and any borrowings. They can print money, but since our economy size is unchanged, the value of your pound is less. If one public sector union gets 10%, then that's great for them. However all the rest will try to get that and so will the private sector if they can - the poor suffer most in this scenario. That simply increases inflation and reduces the value of the pound versus other currencies. That means imports are more expensive and exports cheaper. General speaking 'printing money' simply reduces the value of the pound. So while Harold Wilson's famous 'the pound in your pocket is still worth a pound' following devaluation was indeed true, it wouldn't buy you as much when you bought foreign imports.

 

[Economist]

The BoE's rampant money printing and low interest rates since the last crash has bloated the housing and equities markets to the point where even a slight increase in the base rate could burst the bubble.

If the BoE tries to increase rates it may well crash the economy, if they don't it could lead to an inflationary spiral/cost of living crisis. Either way, disposable income/discretionary spending will be massively reduced. There's supposedly a tight labour market at the moment, so private sector wage rises may well be at/near the level of inflation. If the public sector doesn't keep up, will we see another summer/winter of discontent?

I don't think we're quite at the asset bubble levels of Tokyo '89 yet but we can't be that far off.

 

[Starmill]

If the BoE tries to increase rates it may well crash the economy, if they don't it could lead to an inflationary spiral/cost of living crisis.

I think that I would say that this has essentially already begun even from the very small increments they have raised the bank rate.

Not really as they are still receiving the basic pay. They are merely refusing to work any overtime which includes rest days, sundays and service disruption over the contractual +15 mins allowance.

Is this still correct? There was a strike on Saturday 16 April. A further strike planned for a Saturday suggests that the action will be exceeding this?

It's possible that it could be relevant to take note of the difference between lawful industrial action which breaches the contract of service such as going on strike, and work to rule such as refusing to accept variations not in accordance with the contract. Breaching the contract is a bigger step.

 

[Fokx]

Qqw

I think that I would say that this has essentially already begun even from the very small increments they have raised the bank rate.


Is this still correct? There was a strike on Saturday 16 April. A further strike planned for a Saturday suggests that the action will be exceeding this?

It's possible that it could be relevant to take note of the difference between lawful industrial action which breaches the contract of service such as going on strike, and work to rule such as refusing to accept variations not in accordance with the contract. Breaching the contract is a bigger step.

There’s no breach as it was a yes vote for both strike action (Weekends) and action short of strike (work to rule).

 

[wobman]

Apparently it was a brainwave of the last numpty MD to restrict route knowledge.

This is also happening at other tocs aswell, there's lots of very short sighted decisions being made by senior management.
They don't grasp that savings now actually cost them far more money in the long term, it's all about short term ism on the modern railway unfortunately.

 

[Watershed]

There’s no breach as it was a yes vote for both strike action (Weekends) and action short of strike (work to rule).

It's still a breach of contract. Just one for which there are greater protections than randomly bunking off work.

 

[VauxhallNova]

This is also happening at other tocs aswell, there's lots of very short sighted decisions being made by senior management.
They don't grasp that savings now actually cost them far more money in the long term, it's all about short term ism on the modern railway unfortunately.

Ah, so a cost saving thing.

 

[Gems]

How much money have the staff lost over this? It will take them years to make it up, if they ever do. People really need to engage their brains before striking over money, and get a calculator out with % function.

 

[Starmill]

There’s no breach as it was a yes vote for both strike action (Weekends) and action short of strike (work to rule).

Strike action generally would constitute a breach of contract, work to rule generally wouldn't.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Strike action generally would constitute a breach of contract, work to rule generally wouldn't.

I wonder why some people say it will and others say it won't on this thread?

 

[43066]

I wonder why some people say it will and others say it won't on this thread?

Full strike action, ie not turning up for work when required, is a straightforward breach of employment contract. Action short of a strike, in this case employees ceasing non contractual voluntary overtime, is not a breach of contract but is still legally classed as industrial action. A union instructing it’s members to take part in either form of industrial action must ballot accordingly, following various quite onerous procedures.

 

[Starmill]

I wonder why some people say it will and others say it won't on this thread?

I think that it's just because only one day that isn't a Sunday has been affected by strike action so far, and only one further day has been announced.

 

[Watershed]

How much money have the staff lost over this? It will take them years to make it up, if they ever do. People really need to engage their brains before striking over money, and get a calculator out with % function.

So far it's been 14 Sundays plus a Saturday. Plus any rest day working that people have refused.

If the January 2020 offer had been accepted, members would be on £40k now - albeit with Sundays inside.

It wouldn't take very long to make up for 14 Sundays on that sort of increase (and in reality, most people will have lost rather less than that). But I very much doubt that such figures will be on the table now.

 

[Fokx]

So far it's been 14 Sundays plus a Saturday. Plus any rest day working that people have refused.

There’s actually been two Saturdays so far (I was meant to be working both)

 

[MDB1images]

Delete, answer found.

 

[Iskra]

Can anyone advise what kind of early morning timetable runs between Meadowhall/Sheffield and Manchester on strike Saturdays please? I need to get to the airport for 0730 on Saturday 4th June, so I'm looking at my options. RTT shows this Saturday - which I believe is also a strike Saturday - as still running early in the mornings, but that seems too good to be true.

 

[Fokx]

Can anyone advise what kind of early morning timetable runs between Meadowhall/Sheffield and Manchester on strike Saturdays please? I need to get to the airport for 0730 on Saturday 4th June, so I'm looking at my options. RTT shows this Saturday - which I believe is also a strike Saturday - as still running early in the mornings, but that seems too good to be true.

It’s the same timetable as the Sunday one posted on the website

However, additional cancellations may occur and it’s recommended you chose the other operators on the route

 

[MDB1images]

Can anyone advise what kind of early morning timetable runs between Meadowhall/Sheffield and Manchester on strike Saturdays please? I need to get to the airport for 0730 on Saturday 4th June, so I'm looking at my options. RTT shows this Saturday - which I believe is also a strike Saturday - as still running early in the mornings, but that seems too good to be true.

This Saturday (28th)isn't a strike day.

 

[Llandudno]

Can anyone advise what kind of early morning timetable runs between Meadowhall/Sheffield and Manchester on strike Saturdays please? I need to get to the airport for 0730 on Saturday 4th June, so I'm looking at my options. RTT shows this Saturday - which I believe is also a strike Saturday - as still running early in the mornings, but that seems too good to be true.

There’s no way I would risk catching an early morning train to the Airport if I was catching a flight, let alone a TransPennine service on a Saturday….

 

[Iskra]

It’s the same timetable as the Sunday one posted on the website

However, additional cancellations may occur and it’s recommended you chose the other operators on the route

There isn't one posted currently, it will be posted tomorrow for this Sunday, which seems extremely short notice.

This Saturday (28th)isn't a strike day.

My mistake

There’s no way I would risk catching an early morning train to the Airport if I was catching a flight, let alone a TransPennine service on a Saturday….

I have done this many times before with no issues, I usually get a much earlier train than what I need. I've now formulated a Plan B, should I not like the look of the strike time table when it materialises.

 

[BHXDMT]

I've now formulated a Plan B, should I not like the look of the strike time table when it materialises.

The earliest train from Sheffield to Manchester operated by TPE on a strike day is the 09:11 service, that will be the same for all the remaining strike days.

 

[Starmill]

Can anyone advise what kind of early morning timetable runs between Meadowhall/Sheffield and Manchester on strike Saturdays please? I need to get to the airport for 0730 on Saturday 4th June, so I'm looking at my options. RTT shows this Saturday - which I believe is also a strike Saturday - as still running early in the mornings, but that seems too good to be true.

There's an East Midlands Railway service to Manchester at 0620. If this is too late for you then unfortunately you won't be able to go by train on the morning. Last Saturday it ran fine. It's quite slow though so you'd likely not be in Manchester Airport until 0815. Alternatively you could leave the train at Stockport at 0726 and take a taxi or bus to the Airport. Not that you'd make it for 0730.

 

[Iskra]

The earliest train from Sheffield to Manchester operated by TPE on a strike day is the 09:11 service, that will be the same for all the remaining strike days.

Thanks for the information!

There's an East Midlands Railway service to Manchester at 0620. If this is too late for you then unfortunately you won't be able to go by train on the morning. Last Saturday it ran fine. It's quite slow though so you'd likely not be in Manchester Airport until 0815. Alternatively you could leave the train at Stockport at 0726 and take a taxi or bus to the Airport. Not that you'd make it for 0730.

In that case I’ll drive over the hill to Dinting and get the first train from there and change at Manchester Pic. I saw the EMR service but with the present airport debacle I can’t risk cutting it that fine.

 

[CICERO55]

Aside from the ongoing strikes on sundays, there have been alot of cancellations on the TPE North route and liverpool to glasgow amongs others. Tomorrow (28th may), amongst the worst hit is the liverpool to newcastle route, i wonder how long this could go on for? I believe there are lot of absences in the york TPE depot too.

 

[Some guy]

Aside from the ongoing strikes on sundays, there have been alot of cancellations on the TPE North route and liverpool to glasgow amongs others. Tomorrow (28th may), amongst the worst hit is the liverpool to newcastle route, i wonder how long this could go on for? I believe there are lot of absences in the york TPE depot too.

It’s due to staff refusing to do overtime as a way to hurt the company. Even worse TPE doesn’t seem to careless about the situation especially on the west coast as their first group partner Avanti just picks up the extra passengers and does the extra stops. You’d think TPE would be losing a lot of money due to cancellations

 

[DoubleO]

It’s due to staff refusing to do overtime as a way to hurt the company. Even worse TPE doesn’t seem to careless about the situation especially on the west coast as their first group partner Avanti just picks up the extra passengers and does the extra stops. You’d think TPE would be losing a lot of money due to cancellations

Not quite as clear cut as that. ASLEF removed the RDW agreement due to a disagreement about covid measures. The company seem happy enough without one, as negotiations have only just started about a new agreement. Drivers didn't directly have a say in it either way.

 

[The Chimaera]

It’s due to staff refusing to do overtime as a way to hurt the company. Even worse TPE doesn’t seem to careless about the situation especially on the west coast as their first group partner Avanti just picks up the extra passengers and does the extra stops. You’d think TPE would be losing a lot of money due to cancellations

Or perhaps staff that spent more time at home with their families during Covid lockdowns have now found that it’s much better than being stuck at work all the time trying to make an under resourced service work?

 

[Starmill]

Drivers didn't directly have a say in it either way.

Maybe not directly, but they're still the people who the union representatives are elected to give voice to.

 

[IBLRG]

It's going to be a very interesting situation next Sunday as Grimsby Town Football Club are in the playoff final against Solihull Moors, with the final being played at West ham's ground at Stratford.

With very little TransPennine Express services running on a Sunday it's going to be an interesting journey if fans want to go by train from Cleethorpes / Grimsby Town.