Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[Bald Rick]

IIRC it was said TPE management felt changeover in a station was safer.

its not really a safety matter. More of a potential Performance matter. I suspect TPE may soon be reminded who is paying their bills.

 

[swt_passenger]

its not really a safety matter. More of a potential Performance matter. I suspect TPE may soon be reminded who is paying their bills.

Yes, maybe I should have said they’re risk averse.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I agree, however in previous discussions insiders seemed to be suggesting it wasn’t going to be done on the section either side of Berwick on the ECML, despite NR installing the necessary track side control equipment. IIRC it was said TPE management felt changeover in a station was safer.

Just about sums up todays railway. This is standard operating practice and operators can't be allowed to be selective.

Another thing for GBR to sort out.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Another thing for GBR to sort out.

True, I still cannot figure out why TPE insist on using the front pantograph when LNER prefer to use the rear or why LNER dispatch from the rear cab of 80x by routine where TPE won’t allow it. They are the same trains……

Yes, maybe I should have said they’re risk averse.

You are probably right there….

 

[WAO]

IIRC, the conditions for changeover (pan up) above 20mph were straight contact wire, correctly tensioned, without overlaps. That's easier to provide on new OLE than existing.

WAO

 

[59CosG95]

IIRC, the conditions for changeover (pan up) above 20mph were straight contact wire, correctly tensioned, without overlaps. That's easier to provide on new OLE than existing.

WAO

Precisely. Independently tensioned contact/catenary (i.e. one Tensorex or Balance Weight Assembly per wire) makes it easier to achieve. (All the new OLE on E1 is independently tensioned, while Colton Jn - York still has BWAs with Equalising plates, giving 11kN in each wire. Wouldn't surprise me if the new OLE has 12kN in the catenary, with 15kN in the contact)

 

[Halish Railway]

Is there any idea of when the linespeed on the Leeds lines between Church Fenton and the Holgate area will be raised to 125mph? And will any modifications have to be made to the existing electrification between Colton Jn and York?

 

[59CosG95]

Is there any idea of when the linespeed on the Leeds lines between Church Fenton and the Holgate area will be raised to 125mph? And will any modifications have to be made to the existing electrification between Colton Jn and York?

Afraid not on the linespeed front. Is it confirmed to be those explicit points?
From the Sectional Appendix, the Main Lines are 125mph from Colton Jn (182m 79ch) to 186m 20ch, where they become 100mph. The Leeds lines are 100mph all the way along this same stretch. At 186m 43ch, all 4 lines drop to 90mph, which continues to Holgate Jn (188m 07ch); the Dn Leeds & Dn Main are 60mph from 187m 25ch, however.

On the Normantons, the UN is 125mph from Colton Jn (5m 41ch on NOC; 182m 79 on ECM4) to 6m 40ch (south of Colton Sth Jn; 6m 25ch). The DN 125 begins at Colton Jn.
Back on the Leeds lines, the 100mph south of Colton begins at 10m 31ch; Church Fenton North Jn is at 10m 36ch.

As for the electrification, there'll probably be a few small changes here and there, plus tie-ins to the new OLE at Colton, but it shouldn't require any substantial alterations. The boosters and RCs still need to be removed and converted to earth wire respectively.

 

[IanXC]

its not really a safety matter. More of a potential Performance matter. I suspect TPE may soon be reminded who is paying their bills.

Perhaps charging for electricity use for all trains with pantograph when under the wires would put a suitable financial incentive in place. This would then only be voided/refunded if said electricity supply were unavailable.

 

[Bald Rick]

Perhaps charging for electricity use for all trains with pantograph when under the wires would put a suitable financial incentive in place. This would then only be voided/refunded if said electricity supply were unavailable.

That would be another case of a Governement funded organisation charging another Governement funded organisation.

Far easier to write a letter that says “Dear Matthew, I hereby require you to....

 

[IanXC]

That would be another case of a Governement funded organisation charging another Governement funded organisation.

Far easier to write a letter that says “Dear Matthew, I hereby require you to....

Well indeed. I was thinking of solving the problem in this and other situations - such that the excess costs sits with the concession holder.

 

[Bald Rick]

Well indeed. I was thinking of solving the problem in this and other situations - such that the excess costs sits with the concession holder.

In which case they would just price it in.

 

[CAF397]

Noticed this in the Weekly Operating Notice.

Forthcoming changes from Monday 6th June 2022 between Manchester Victoria & Stalybridge.

TRU W1 upgrade works.

* Track circuits replaced with axle counters
* Speed increase on the Rochdale Slow lines
* Closure of Baguley Fold Jn signalbox
* Speed increase on the Ashton lines
* Conversion of Clayton Bridge LC to MCB-OD

 

[Halish Railway]

Regarding the speed increases, does this mean that there will be 55mph running around the realigned Miles Platting curve? If so at what point does 55mph running begin when leaving Victoria?

 

[noddingdonkey]

I'm surprised that they are replacing track circuits with axle counters, I had always assumed that track circuits were a newer and better technology?

 

[jonesy3001]

Does that mean nothing is happening til June?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Noticed this in the Weekly Operating Notice.

Forthcoming changes from Monday 6th June 2022 between Manchester Victoria & Stalybridge.

TRU W1 upgrade works.

* Track circuits replaced with axle counters
* Speed increase on the Rochdale Slow lines
* Closure of Baguley Fold Jn signalbox
* Speed increase on the Ashton lines
* Conversion of Clayton Bridge LC to MCB-OD

Presumably the signalling will migrate to Manchester ROC, in the same group as Stalybridge and Ashton?

 

[childwallblues]

What does Baguley Fold SB control?

 

[Watershed]

What does Baguley Fold SB control?

Only a very small area, essentially the signals immediately either side of Baguley Fold Jn (where the south-to-east curve from Philips Park South Jn on the Philips Park-Ashburys line meets the Victoria-Stalybridge line).

 

[CAF397]

Presumably the signalling will migrate to Manchester ROC, in the same group as Stalybridge and Ashton?

Logic (!) would dictate Manchester North workstation within the ROC gains control, as they currently control either side of Baguley.

Stalybridge area is still Manchester East SCC (Located within Manchester South SCC) though.

 

[snowball]

I've just been re-reading some old posts in this thread. From #4074 on page 136 it appears that in May last year the Manchester-Stalybridge "dashboard" site,

manchestertostalybridge.co.uk

This domain may be for sale!

manchestertostalybridge.co.uk

, gave the total number of piles to be installed as 473. However it's now 543 and I think it has been for quite a long time. So 70 extra piles appeared at some stage - maybe the Guide Bridge line (which we have believed for a while now to be included) ?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I've just been re-reading some old posts in this thread. From #4074 on page 136 it appears that in May last year the Manchester-Stalybridge "dashboard" site,

manchestertostalybridge.co.uk

This domain may be for sale!

manchestertostalybridge.co.uk

, gave the total number of piles to be installed as 473. However it's now 543 and I think it has been for quite a long time. So 70 extra piles appeared at some stage - maybe the Guide Bridge line (which we have believed for a while now to be included) ?

I assume that the signs maybe good that other electrification will get done so the extra takes us beyond Stalyvegas station to the tunnel mouth plus a really good over run on the Rochdale line plus to Guide Bridge etc. since been as good as confirmed from IRP that Stalybridge to Huddersfield will happen so no waste of piles and masts etc.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just another remainder that this thread is to discuss Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates, CP6.

I've split off some posts that were discussing the merits of Axle Counters over Track Circuits to the following thread:

Axle Counters vs Track Circuits

moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/transpennine-route-upgrade-and-electrification-updates-cp6.88054/ I'm surprised that they are replacing track circuits with axle counters, I had always assumed that track circuits were a newer and better technology? the other...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[jonesy3001]

I assume that the signs maybe good that other electrification will get done so the extra takes us beyond Stalyvegas station to the tunnel mouth plus a really good over run on the Rochelle line plus to Guide Bridge etc. since been as good as confirmed from IRP that Stalybridge to Huddersfield will happen so no waste of piles and masts etc.

Take it you meant Rochdale?

 

[td97]

I assume that the signs maybe good that other electrification will get done so the extra takes us beyond Stalyvegas station to the tunnel mouth plus a really good over run on the Rochelle line plus to Guide Bridge etc. since been as good as confirmed from IRP that Stalybridge to Huddersfield will happen so no waste of piles and masts etc.

Stalybridge construction limit is Waterloo Road.
Miles Platting has only the junction triangle wired but no plain line towards Rochdale.
Stalybridge to Guide Bridge IS included as far as Guide Bridge station.

 

[59CosG95]

Stalybridge construction limit is Waterloo Road.
Miles Platting has only the junction triangle wired but no plain line towards Rochdale.
Stalybridge to Guide Bridge IS included as far as Guide Bridge station.

If the Stalybridge OLE ends at Waterloo, does that imply that Stalybridge Tunnel (i.e. beneath Stamford St) remains unwired? I guess that the RRAP at Spring St (pictured) would be the easternmost access point for works.

 

[jonesy3001]

Is there works still ongoing or are they waiting for the next announcement to carry on with the OLE works?

 

[snowball]

If the Stalybridge OLE ends at Waterloo, does that imply that Stalybridge Tunnel (i.e. beneath Stamford St) remains unwired? I guess that the RRAP at Spring St (pictured) would be the easternmost access point for works.

Stalybridge tunnel has never been part of the Manchester-Stalybridge scheme. It's a difficult location (I think a bigger problem than Standedge, despite all the talk about the latter). No doubt it will be wired eventually as part of Stalybridge to Huddersfield, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that some of the basic questions about how to do it have not yet been settled.

Is there works still ongoing or are they waiting for the next announcement to carry on with the OLE works?

I don't think they would put up a few masts and then stop, so presumably they'll continue.

The absence of information is frustrating.

Might we hear something at the turn of the financial year???

 

[jonesy3001]

Stalybridge tunnel has never been part of the Manchester-Stalybridge scheme. It's a difficult location (I think a bigger problem than Standedge, despite all the talk about the latter). No doubt it will be wired eventually as part of Stalybridge to Huddersfield, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that some of the basic questions about how to do it have not yet been settled.


I don't think they would put up a few masts and then stop, so presumably they'll continue.

The absence of information is frustrating.

Might we hear something at the turn of the financial year???

I have been looking at the dashboard but looks like it hasn't been updated for a long time.

 

[snowball]

I have been looking at the dashboard but looks like it hasn't been updated for a long time.

\it's been saying 40% for months, I think.