Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[Halish Railway]

I'm guessing that the risk of leaving un-energised wires is mitigated by the security measures in place by nature of the track being used as sidings.

 

[59CosG95]

Surprised no one has really updated this part of the TRU.

I have been reliably informed by a friend from York that there are now full OHLE hangers in place on the masts between Micklefield and Church Fenton(Provided... only on the down line). This also includes the drums, which hold the wires at the start of overlap sections (in his own words). I'm pretty sure this was already mentioned but he was quite excited to report to me (and a few friends) that "it's not series 1 or 2 but a design very similar to that in use on the ECML".

Can confirm this is indeed the case. As with Colton Jn - Church Fenton, Siemens' SICAT SA range of cantilevers is being used, and has indeed been installed over the Down line, from a point beyond of all the crossings SW of Rose Lane (but before where the line crosses the A162 at Barkers Ash), up to the construction compound near Huddlestone Grange.

While Series 1-style masts may pop up, I'd say it's very unlikely to find Series 2-style registrations between Church Fenton & Leeds. (West of Leeds is a different story!)

 

[GraphitProjekt]

Where else has SICAT been used, didn't think there were any electrification projects in Eastern region recently (except maybe the test track at Newton Aycliffe). Also what does the SA stand for?

 

[Halish Railway]

Where else has SICAT been used, didn't think there were any electrification projects in Eastern region recently (except maybe the test track at Newton Aycliffe). Also what does the SA stand for?

It’s used for the bay platform at Stevenage and some replacement cantilevers on the Hertford Loop line. There is also an older variant (I believe) of the SICAT design used between Glasgow and Paisley and on the Larkhall branch.

I’m not sure what SA stands for in this context but it is used to distinguish different variants of the SICAT design. I believe SX is the variant used on new schemes in Denmark for example.

 

[59CosG95]

It’s used for the bay platform at Stevenage and some replacement cantilevers on the Hertford Loop line. There is also an older variant (I believe) of the SICAT design used between Glasgow and Paisley and on the Larkhall branch.

I’m not sure what SA stands for in this context but it is used to distinguish different variants of the SICAT design. I believe SX is the variant used on new schemes in Denmark for example.

Correct on all counts. There are a handful of SICAT SA cantilevers used at Carstairs as well, mixed in with Series 1 & Series 2 equipment.

 

[John R]

For the uninitiated amongst us, is that maybe a lighter weight design that moves us away from the heavy steelwork versions that look (at least to me) rather ugly?

 

[59CosG95]

For the uninitiated amongst us, is that maybe a lighter weight design that moves us away from the heavy steelwork versions that look (at least to me) rather ugly?

Yes - SICAT cantilevers use aluminium as opposed to steel. Picture them as a lighter version of the ECML Mk3b cantilevers.

 

[Halish Railway]

For the uninitiated amongst us, is that maybe a lighter weight design that moves us away from the heavy steelwork versions that look (at least to me) rather ugly?

I believe it was chosen due to its similarity with the existing variants of the MK3 cantilever used on Network Rail’s East Coast and North East region. There are some benefits of the design such as increased distances between cantilevers, however, it does seem that these regions don’t expect to achieve maintenance economies of scale associated with a different design as there unfortunately might not be much electrification around there after TRU.

 

[Alexd]

What are these for and going to be a while before anything electric uses it.

Also, the sidings are for a light maintenance facility for Northern

 

[John R]

Yes - SICAT cantilevers use aluminium as opposed to steel. Picture them as a lighter version of the ECML Mk3b cantilevers.

Thanks. That's good to hear!

 

[Jamesrob637]

Those sidings look great. Wonder how long it'll take for them to appear on Google Maps.

 

[Tim_UK]

In Huddersfield, then new Bradford Road bridge span, northern side. Is that for 1 track or 2 tracks? It looks almost wide enough for 2.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Yes, the "main line" was LNWR to Stockport and beyond, including through trains from Euston. The LNWR Manchester-Leeds trains had to use L&Y metals between Stalybridge and Manchester Exchange.

By the 1970s the Stockport-Stalybridge shuttle was the only surviving remnant (running about hourly I think). I can just about remember sitting behind the driver and wondering at the amount of ironmongery above and below when passing through Guide Bridge.

Recall sitting behind the driver and going over the orbital motorway construction and thinking at the time the single bridge was going to be inadequate if ever there was an upturn in traffic. But we are where we are. At least they didn't use it as an excuse to close the line completely.

 

[billh]

I haven't seen an answer up thread, but what will be the purpose of the new crossover at the Uppermill end of Saddleworth Viaduct? Seen it today looks very expensive and nearly complete.

 

[Tim_UK]

but what will be the purpose of the new crossover at the Uppermill end of Saddleworth Viaduct?

To allow trains to terminate at Greenfield and reverse back towards Stalybridge. This is something that happens from time to time.

Useful for when Standedge tunnel is shut for wiring.

Diggle signal box is being closed. I’m presuming the loop and crossover going too. I don‘t know why. There must be more reason that it isn’t being recontrolled from elsewhere.

See:

IIRC the Diggle loop is being decommissioned as part of the upgrade, don't know if it's already beyond use but your description suggests it might be. In which case, an alternative facility will be needed while Standedge is blocked.

 

[fishwomp]

Diggle signal box is being closed. I’m presuming the loop and crossover going too. I don‘t know why. There must be more reason that it isn’t being recontrolled from elsewhere.

It's odd to spend so much four tracking a 7 mile stretch east of Huddersfield, but to remove a loop near midway the longest remaining double track part. Westbound still has Marsden, even if the Standedge to Huddersfield improvements are deferred.

 

[Tim_UK]

It's odd to spend so much four tracking a 7 mile stretch east of Huddersfield, but to remove a loop near midway the longest remaining double track part. Westbound still has Marsden, even if the Standedge to Huddersfield improvements are deferred.

We don't know what the plans are for Standedge Tunnel (Marsden to Diggle). Or from Huddersfield to Marsden. 3 tracks all the way has been mentioned before. As a massive loop. Also the imaginary Manchester to Marsden (HS ??) super tunnel. No point having a little loop if there's a 5 miles one right next to it.

The 4 tracking (Huddersfield to Westtown) is mainly about taking the junctions out of the way. Junctions eat capacity. Bradley, Heaton lodge and Thornhill (Ravensthorpe). And these have crossing services. (Grand Central from Bradford to Wakefield Kirkgate, Northern from Hebden Bridge to Leeds via Brighouse, Northern from Bradford Interchange to Huddersfield, Freight)

You also have the bonkers must have seemed like a good idea at the time, 2 way middle track between Mirfield and Thornhill. And that a Wakefield to Huddersfield and Leeds to Brighouse train can't leave Mirfield at the same time. (before Platfom 2 was removed)

Mirfield will be much more useful as a 2 platform island. Travelling from Sowerby Bridge to Huddersfield, then in the future you will have the option of a change at Brighouse (for a train from Bradford) or change at Mirfield (for a train from Wakefield or Leeds). Which is an option you've always had, but it will always be a cross platform change in the future. Platform 3 at Mirfield is a trek.


The Manchester side of Standedge has Stalybridge and then basically 2 routes - to Victoria or Piccadilly. Even if you added in Stalybridge to Stockport (with a stop at guide bridge, so you can change to go to Glossop), there aren't loads of crossing services.



And you also have to wonder where the Ashton Metrolink line might get extended to

Nothing has been said about what new services might appear with the new capacity. I presume somebody has thought about it, but it's another 2 years away ?? And I wouldn't expect a big bang big change on day 1.

A lot of Brighouse people feel a connection with Wakefield. And there are a surprising number of public services left in Wakefield as a hangover from it's time as the County town of the west riding.

An every half hour service on the Slaithwaite, Marsden, Greenfield, Mossley, Stalybridge - that would be a game changer. The view of Uppermill residents is `Don't bother with the train for going to work, it's always packed`. And the metrolink park and ride car parks (2 in oldham and 2 in Ashton) are huge, but often fairly full.

 

[nr758123]

Or from Huddersfield to Marsden. 3 tracks all the way has been mentioned before. As a massive loop.

The developing plans for Slaithwaite & Marsden stations are based on three tracks, though I have always understood that there would only be two tracks (plus a third track to the Penistone line only) through Springwood and Gledholt Tunnels. There's a plan of the current proposals for Marsden station within the "Marsden Blueprint" consultation https://www.marsdenmechanics.co.uk/events/marsden-blueprint-come-and-have-your-say/, but it appears the only way to see the actual plan is to go to that site and scan a QR code.

Also the imaginary Manchester to Marsden (HS ??) super tunnel. No point having a little loop if there's a 5 miles one right next to it.

Possibly getting a bit off-topic, but did the Manchester to Marsden tunnel thing ever develop into anything more than a Grant Shapps press release so that, on the day he cancelled HS2 to Leeds, he could go on BBC Look North and say that high speed rail was still coming to Yorkshire?

 

[takno]

The developing plans for Slaithwaite & Marsden stations are based on three tracks, though I have always understood that there would only be two tracks (plus a third track to the Penistone line only) through Springwood and Gledholt Tunnels. There's a plan of the current proposals for Marsden station within the "Marsden Blueprint" consultation https://www.marsdenmechanics.co.uk/events/marsden-blueprint-come-and-have-your-say/, but it appears the only way to see the actual plan is to go to that site and scan a QR code.

Possibly getting a bit off-topic, but did the Manchester to Marsden tunnel thing ever develop into anything more than a Grant Shapps press release so that, on the day he cancelled HS2 to Leeds, he could go on BBC Look North and say that high speed rail was still coming to Yorkshire?

https://indd.adobe.com/view/c0ae8136-c8ba-4d55-863b-0ddafadb4b3b is the page you eventually get to if you follow the series of complex actions and accessibility traps. Even then its a naff online document viewer with no way to view it as a normal web page or PDF. Why the NR consultation people hate usability so much is anybody's guess.

 

[Nottingham59]

Why the NR consultation people hate usability so much is anybody's guess.

Probably to avoid being held to account when visualisations and promises made in consultations are not realised when the project is actually delivered.

 

[nr758123]

Why the NR consultation people hate usability so much is anybody's guess.

This isn't Network Rail's consultation, which hasn't happened yet. This is from consultants commissioned by Marsden Community Trust and Kirklees Council.

 

[YorksLad12]

https://indd.adobe.com/view/c0ae8136-c8ba-4d55-863b-0ddafadb4b3b is the page you eventually get to if you follow the series of complex actions and accessibility traps. Even then its a naff online document viewer with no way to view it as a normal web page or PDF. Why the NR consultation people hate usability so much is anybody's guess.

That's not a Network Rail consultation. It's a local consultation for local people (though someone presumably signed it off), using the poster they've developed as an image on a webpage. Ick.

More relevantly, I hadn't twigged that the former P3 would be brought back into use as the new P2, with the current P2 becoming P1 (and the current P1 closing, I suppose), so that you only need one accessible entry/exit constructing. But, their diagram also shows the existing P3 in place - I thought that that was going?

 

[nr758123]

local consultation for local people

Good Marsden reference there

More relevantly, I hadn't twigged that the former P3 would be brought back into use as the new P2, with the current P2 becoming P1 (and the current P1 closing, I suppose), so that you only need one accessible entry/exit constructing. But, their diagram also shows the existing P3 in place - I thought that that was going?

Current P1 closing. Proposal is for three tracks and three platform faces so current P3 retained.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Good Marsden reference there

Current P1 closing. Proposal is for three tracks and three platform faces so current P3 retained.

I'd hope it (and both platforms at Slaithwaite) would get replaced with a more substantial structure than the current "MFI Wardrobe" thing. Pretty much every wooden platform between Huddersfield and Leeds is being replaced one way or another.

 

[nr758123]

I'd hope it (and both platforms at Slaithwaite) would get replaced with a more substantial structure than the current "MFI Wardrobe" thing.

That would be all three platforms at Slaithwaite.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That would be all three platforms at Slaithwaite.

Do you mean that's what's planned? Because SWT only has two platforms at present.

 

[LittleAH]

It's odd to spend so much four tracking a 7 mile stretch east of Huddersfield, but to remove a loop near midway the longest remaining double track part. Westbound still has Marsden, even if the Standedge to Huddersfield improvements are deferred.

A loop that hasn’t been used in donkeys years, isn’t long enough for the freight that will be used in coming years and marsden to Huddersfield is being three tracked. Not odd at all.

 

[Narrowgauge725]

For those who wonder why only 3 tracks between Huddersfield and Standedge Tunnels I am assuming you have never looked at this area. The trackbed clings to one side of the Colne Valley. 22 under bridges, 13 over bridges, 3 viaducts, 2 (3) tunnels, cuttings and many major retaining walls. To get 4 tracks with reasonable curves and OLE along there would probably mean rebuilding most of these structures.

 

[fishwomp]

A loop that hasn’t been used in donkeys years, isn’t long enough for the freight that will be used in coming years

Any idea when it was last used ?

and marsden to Huddersfield is being three tracked. Not odd at all.

This part still to be confirmed... you can't live under the assumption that announced, let alone unannounced, projects will actually happen. Governments change. Priorities change.