Transport for Wales (TfW) Class 67+ Mk4 diagrams

[sd0733]

These look to be the diagrams from next week:

Sunday

1:
ECS Canton to Swansea
10:32 Swansea-Manchester Picc
15:30 Manchester Picc-Swansea
Ecs to Canton

2:
08:32 Crewe-Manchester Picc
09:30 Manchester Pic to Swansea
14:55 Swansea to Manchester Picc
Ecs to Crewe

Monday-Friday

1:
04:54 Crewe to Cardiff Central
08:49 Cardiff Central-Manchestet Pic
12:30 Manchester Pic-Cardiff Central
16:49 Cardiff Central-Manchester Pic
Ecs to Crewe

2:
Ecs to Manchester
06:27 Manchester Pic to Cardiff Central
12:49 Cardiff Central Manchester Pic
16:30 Manchester Pic to Swansea
Ecs to Canton

3:
04:35 Cardiff Central- Manchester Picc
08:30 Manchester Pic-Cardiff Central
17:14 Cardiff Central-Holyhead

4:
05:33 Holyhead-Cardiff Central
10:52 Cardiff Central-Manchester Pic
14:30 Manchester Pic- Cardiff Central
18:55 Cardiff Central-Manchester Pic
Ecs to Crewe

1W13/1V38/1W61/1V62 are booked 2x150 until the next Mk4 diagram can be brought In

Not sure of Saturdays yet

 

[nightall]

These look to be the diagrams from next week:

Sunday

1:
ECS Canton to Swansea
10:32 Swansea-Manchester Picc
15:30 Manchester Picc-Swansea
Ecs to Canton

2:
08:32 Crewe-Manchester Picc
09:30 Manchester Pic to Swansea
14:55 Swansea to Manchester Picc
Ecs to Crewe

Monday-Friday

1:
04:54 Crewe to Cardiff Central
08:49 Cardiff Central-Manchestet Pic
12:30 Manchester Pic-Cardiff Central
16:49 Cardiff Central-Manchester Pic
Ecs to Crewe

2:
Ecs to Manchester
06:27 Manchester Pic to Cardiff Central
12:49 Cardiff Central Manchester Pic
16:30 Manchester Pic to Swansea
Ecs to Canton

3:
04:35 Cardiff Central- Manchester Picc
08:30 Manchester Pic-Cardiff Central
17:14 Cardiff Central-Holyhead

4:
05:33 Holyhead-Cardiff Central
10:52 Cardiff Central-Manchester Pic
14:30 Manchester Pic- Cardiff Central
18:55 Cardiff Central-Manchester Pic
Ecs to Crewe

1W13/1V38/1W61/1V62 are booked 2x150 until the next Mk4 diagram can be brought In

Not sure of Saturdays yet

Thanks for the tip, we're on the 1032 from Swansea now!

 

[Western 52]

There's a lot of ECS running in those diagrams. Surely they could pick up a bit of extra revenue by running them in service?

 

[Condor7]

The 05:33 Holyhead to Cardiff and the 17:14 return is The Gerald Of Wales although not named in the timetable.

 

[MP393]

There's a lot of ECS running in those diagrams. Surely they could pick up a bit of extra revenue by running them in service?

The ECSs from Manchester - Crewe do have a service along side them, albeit with a unit left behind from then previous service an hour beforehand. The Loco + Stock go empty via various diversionary routes for retention purposes, and the services go back normal route. When there is not a unit left behind, the empties are cancelled and the Stock does the service train.

The only exception is the empties TO Manchester of a morning, which runs empty stock with no duplicate.

 

[sd0733]

There's a lot of ECS running in those diagrams. Surely they could pick up a bit of extra revenue by running them in service?

Quite often the 20:30 and/or 22:32 from Manchester run as the 67s rather than a unit as far as Crewe anyway, if there's a shortage of DMUs that's the back up.
The early one in the morning goes via a variety of routes and gets put in various loops en-route quite often so isn't much use as a passenger service.

 

[xotGD]

The early one in the morning goes via a variety of routes and gets put in various loops en-route quite often so isn't much use as a passenger service.

Some folk would find that very appealing!

 

[43055]

The 05:33 Holyhead to Cardiff and the 17:14 return is The Gerald Of Wales although not named in the timetable.

I don't think those services have ever been named in the timetable

 

[Condor7]

I don't think those services have ever been named in the timetable

That’s correct. They promote it from time to time in press releases but otherwise to the best of my knowledge doesn’t get mentioned, which is very strange.

 

[Llandudno]

That’s correct. They promote it from time to time in press releases but otherwise to the best of my knowledge doesn’t get mentioned, which is very strange.

Probably because there is very chance a 2 Car Class 150 will turn up instead!

 

[Kite159]

Probably because there is very chance a 2 Car Class 150 will turn up instead!

Or a pair of 153s with no legroom Richmond seats.

 

[Anonymous10]

Or a pair of 153s with no legroom Richmond seats.

To my knowledge they only have 4 153s with Richmond seating.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

To my knowledge they only have 4 153s with Richmond seating.

One is a 153/3, I discovered the other day, which surprised me as I thought they were all /9s.

 

[Anonymous10]

One is a 153/3, I discovered the other day, which surprised me as I thought they were all /9s.

I believe 153318 and 382 are both Richmond style. Then the /9s are 926 and 910.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I believe 153318 and 382 are both Richmond style. Then the /9s are 926 and 910.

Makes sense as the Richmonds were fitted by First Great Western, and although I believe the ones going straight to TfW from them were all given the full refurbishment including Chapman seats (and some like 333 which was with LM before FGW had them to start with), these four came from East Midlands Railway (who took them off of GWR the year before, without changing the interiors), and I think the plan originally was that all from EMR would only get the "PRM Lite" refurbishment, with 318/382 getting the wheelchair facilities in the end after all but no change of seats.

 

[xotGD]

So here's one of the few threads concerning loco hauled passenger services, and it descends into wibble about the seats in units.

 

[43184spotter]

So here's one of the few threads concerning loco hauled passenger services, and it descends into wibble about the seats in units.

Duh. Obviously Class 153 seats are exactly what TFW 67+Mk4 diagrams are.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

So here's one of the few threads concerning loco hauled passenger services, and it descends into wibble about the seats in units.

I don’t know what the emphasis on loco hauled services is for
And there’s unfortunately many, not few, because many times people haven’t realised there’s already a thread about 67s.

 

[Condor7]

Probably because there is very chance a 2 Car Class 150 will turn up instead!

You may well have first hand experience of this as I can only comment from afar, but below was TfW promotion from 2 years ago for The Gerald. How does that work on a class 150 especially as it offers a full dining service?

Connecting North and South Wales

7 June marks the return of our direct services linking Cardiff Central and Holyhead, known as “Y Gerallt Gymro” or “The Gerald of Wales” service. These are operated by our Mark 4 intercity carriages and include First Class carriages, free Wi-Fi throughout, an enhanced food and drink offer...

news.tfw.wales

 

[Topological]

You may well have first hand experience of this as I can only comment from afar, but below was TfW promotion from 2 years ago for The Gerald. How does that work on a class 150 especially as it offers a full dining service?

Connecting North and South Wales

7 June marks the return of our direct services linking Cardiff Central and Holyhead, known as “Y Gerallt Gymro” or “The Gerald of Wales” service. These are operated by our Mark 4 intercity carriages and include First Class carriages, free Wi-Fi throughout, an enhanced food and drink offer...

news.tfw.wales

Which is why it is not promoted.

Catering does not work on a 150. Well, sometimes the trolley can make it down the train but mostly it cannot and too often the whole thing has too many standees to make getting to catering possible.

It still surprises me that TfW sell first class on booked Mk4 diagrams. Though the booking engines must be slightly clever because you cannot always get first class on the same time train. For example I have used first on the 16:30 Manchester to Swansea, but it does not always show first class ticket availability. That does not help those already first flexible return tickets though.

My understanding of this thread is that it exists to say which are actually Mk4 rather than what is supposed to be.

 

[sd0733]

That does not help those already first flexible return tickets though.

That's long been an issue on the Manchesters well before Mk4s came on the scene. The fully flexible fares aren't just valid via Hereford so been able to buy them for years and have had 0% chance of First on the direct service.

 

[Topological]

That's long been an issue on the Manchesters well before Mk4s came on the scene. The fully flexible fares aren't just valid via Hereford so been able to buy them for years and have had 0% chance of First on the direct service.

True, I did not test it with just combinations that only TfW could provide such as Ludlow etc.

That said the advances can only appear when there is some expectation of a Mk4 and my experience is that TfW own site only sometimes shows the advance.

I do genuinely see no option to buy a first class open ticket on the 16:30 most weeks. So presumably something in the system is helping me to steer towards the 16:25 Cross Country and a route via Birmingham on those days when the 16:30 is not showing first class.

 

[sd0733]

True, I did not test it with just combinations that only TfW could provide such as Ludlow etc.

That said the advances can only appear when there is some expectation of a Mk4 and my experience is that TfW own site only sometimes shows the advance.

I do genuinely see no option to buy a first class open ticket on the 16:30 most weeks. So presumably something in the system is helping me to steer towards the 16:25 Cross Country and a route via Birmingham on those days when the 16:30 is not showing first class.

It does seem that the advances have been a lot more limited in recent weeks , like you say even on regular diagrams like the 16:30 which has been pretty consistent for the past few weeks.

That area of whats put on trains tickets wise is something I really don't know how it's decided so I won't pretend I know!

 

[robert thomas]

True, I did not test it with just combinations that only TfW could provide such as Ludlow etc.

That said the advances can only appear when there is some expectation of a Mk4 and my experience is that TfW own site only sometimes shows the advance.

I do genuinely see no option to buy a first class open ticket on the 16:30 most weeks. So presumably something in the system is helping me to steer towards the 16:25 Cross Country and a route via Birmingham on those days when the 16:30 is not showing first class.

An open ticket is valid both routes

 

[Topological]

An open ticket is valid both routes

A screenshot to show what I am talking about since there seems to be some confusion. The image shows tickets from Manchester to Swansea on Tuesday 25th July.

No advances, but you can see that there is no available first class single on the 10:30 despite this being a nominal Mk4 diagram. Currently it will sell the Anytime on the 12:30, 14:30, 16:30 and 18:30 though. First class also appears on the option through Birmingham at 11:03.

Worth noting that the xx:25 Cross Country do not display so if I was looking for a first class to leave Manchester at 11:30 then I would be feeling I had to wait an hour when I actually did not.

No advances for Tuesday 25th though.

 

[alistairlees]

Do 67s still work some Manchester to Cardiff turns? I can't see any recently. I'll be travelling to Ludlow on Friday afternoon, from either Newport or Crewe (having come via London). Then back on Sunday afternoon.

 

[sd0733]

Do 67s still work some Manchester to Cardiff turns? I can't see any recently. I'll be travelling to Ludlow on Friday afternoon, from either Newport or Crewe (having come via London). Then back on Sunday afternoon.

Yes but not whilst the engineering works are on.
From Friday they'll progressively re-enter service. The only ones Friday afternoon are likely to be 12:30 from Manchester and 16:49 back.
Unsure how many are planned out on Sunday.

 

[alistairlees]

Thank you. The 16.49 Cardiff - Manchester would be perfect actually - I need to be at Ludlow just after 18.00.

 

[sd0733]

Thank you. The 16.49 Cardiff - Manchester would be perfect actually - I need to be at Ludlow just after 18.00.

No problem. Obviously things can change between now and then but that's what's currently planned!

 

[alistairlees]

No problem. Obviously things can change between now and then but that's what's currently planned!

The 16.49 Cardiff - Manchester was 67010 on Friday. Anyone know the Sunday 1st October diagrams?