Travel over Christmas

[Ianno87]

Err... no... the DfT control on the TOC spending is tighter than ever right now!

Depends whether TOCs present the DfT with a choice: "Let us spend more money, or we cancel trains".

 

[LAX54]

I suspect on TOCs where Sundays are optional overtime that getting workers in on the 27th may require a financial incentive otherwise volunteers may be thin on the ground.

Network Rail Sundays are 'outside' the working week, however, if it is part of your weekly roster, then you will have to work, unless you can get your own cover
also A/L is generally barred over the two weeks at Christmas. (there are exceptions)

 

[greyman42]

It ends too early from my perspective, and basically makes our normal Christmas impossible (with the in-laws on Christmas day with local Christmas commitments, then may own family until New Year). It's barely worth the effort for, in effect, a day.

I'd have thought at least stretching the window for a couple more days (to the 29th) wouldn't have been a massive ask.

Let's be honest, if people want to travel they will and they will do it when they want. They are not going to worry about "windows".

I find myself agreeing with this. It then gives people the 'excuse' to tell relatives - "not allowed, sorry" - whereas now, if I don't try and travel it will cause upset.

Then the relatives need to get a grip on themselves.

 

[cactustwirly]

Boxing Day doesn’t just get a decent service by magic, in order to do that people need to work it, and that can’t just be arranged at the drop of a hat.

I suspect that with all the hassle and stress that 2020 has brought, volunteers would be rather thin on the ground unless a pretty attractive monetary offer was on the table.

It’s Christmas for key workers too, remember.

Well there's over a month to arrange it. Obviously if would be worked as overtime like a typical Sunday/bank holiday. I don't see what the issue is?
Also worth mentioning that the 28th is bank holiday this year, so you're not losing that much time if you work the 26th.

It is necessary in my opinion to run services on the 26th this year, to avoid the inevitable travel chaos on the 27th.

 

[PeterY]

I can see rail travel being bad over the 5 days but I can see road travel being an utter nightmare.

 

[Bald Rick]

I can see rail travel being bad over the 5 days but I can see road travel being an utter nightmare.

It won’t be an issue, I predict it now! And certainly not on two of the days.

 

[221129]

It is necessary in my opinion to run services on the 26th this year

It's really not.

 

[cactustwirly]

It's really not.

So all the people bubbling with families over Christmas are going to magically teleport home on the 27th then?

 

[Bikeman78]

It's going to be a real problem. I would not be surprsied if the whole network went reservation only for the period, or at least all services on anything approaching a mainline. It would also be sensible to allow people to travel on public transport to start and end their "Christmas Bubble" on the 21st and 28th to spread demand a bit; the legislation could kick in at (say) 6pm on the 21st and end at 11am on the 28th to try and facilitate this a litte.

I've been on busy trains to Shenfield and they run every 10 minutes (every 7 or minutes from the new timetable). Trying to make them, or any similar services, reservation only will be a non starter. I can believe that long distance trains might have such a system (some already do) although it's impossible to check everyone getting on an 11 car Pendolino.

 

[Bald Rick]

So all the people bubbling with families over Christmas are going to magically teleport home on the 27th then?

If they are travelling on Boxing Day, they’ll be in their car like every other year.

 

[cactustwirly]

If they are travelling on Boxing Day, they’ll be in their car like every other year.

But unlike other years there is a time limit when you can visit family.
Surely running trains over two days will spread out demand, rather than everyone traveling on the 27th resulting in travel chaos and overcrowded trains??

 

[221129]

But unlike other years there is a time limit when you can visit family.
Surely running trains over two days will spread out demand, rather than everyone traveling on the 27th resulting in travel chaos and overcrowded trains??

But unfortunately one of those days, you are not able to run trains on. (Engineering access, no crew etc.) A lot of people won't bother travelling, even less are likely to go by train, and a significant amount of people are just going to ignore the time limit and will do what they want.

 

[Bald Rick]

But unlike other years there is a time limit when you can visit family.
Surely running trains over two days will spread out demand, rather than everyone traveling on the 27th resulting in travel chaos and overcrowded trains??

But, like other years, a very significant majority of those travelling will be using their cars.

 

[Ianno87]

But, like other years, a very significant majority of those travelling will be using their cars.

And a good amount of the usual Xmas -> New Year traffic is people going one place at Christmas then somewhere else at New Year. This year there won't be a "somewhere else".

 

[bramling]

My opinion on Shapps has not changed; I held him in low regard before he said this, and that remains the case now. He should stop trying to lecture people. His views are unforgivable as far as I'm concerned.

Well there's over a month to arrange it. Obviously if would be worked as overtime like a typical Sunday/bank holiday. I don't see what the issue is?
Also worth mentioning that the 28th is bank holiday this year, so you're not losing that much time if you work the 26th.

It is necessary in my opinion to run services on the 26th this year, to avoid the inevitable travel chaos on the 27th.

Fact is, people don’t like working Christmas, just like they don’t like working weekends, bank holidays, school holidays, when major sports events are on, fine summer weather, et cetera. This is a human thing not a railway thing, and let’s be honest elements of the rest of the population haven’t exactly been demonstrating a good work ethic of late with all the bleating from the work-from-homes (some of which is quite probably encouraging the lockdown political agenda).

Personally that doesn’t include me as I despise Christmas so don’t mind working elements of it, but equally I get sick of the dirty tricks others use to get Christmas off, and to be honest days like Boxing Day have in recent years become a total and utter unpleasant experience to work (for various reasons), so I won’t offer to work any Christmas days beyond what are my own.

People can repeat all they like about how they’d like to see services this Boxing Day, but it isn’t going to happen short of a big injection of cash to pay for shed loads of overtime. In the grand scheme of things it’s not a priority.

Like with this month’s closing of non-essential shops, trying to compress Christmas into a small number of days just isn’t going to work well. But then Boris and company have made a shambles of every other aspect of this whole affair, so why should this be any different?

If there’s going to be restrictions then it would be a whole lot easier if we simply didn’t bother with Christmas this year, but evidently some people just aren’t going to be prepared to go without.

 

[Bald Rick]

And another thing....

People in Tier 1 areas will of course be able to visit any family and friends in other Tier 1 areas as often as they like whenever they like over the festive period, so long as they obey the rule of 6 for indoor gatherings. Now that doesn’t help everyone, of course, but it does help a lot of the population (subject to tomorrow’s announcements).

 

[Ianno87]

And another thing....

People in Tier 1 areas will of course be able to visit any family and friends in other Tier 1 areas as often as they like whenever they like over the festive period, so long as they obey the rule of 6 for indoor gatherings. Now that doesn’t help everyone, of course, but it does help a lot of the population (subject to tomorrow’s announcements).

I personally have jumped to the assumption that Bolton (where my Mum lives) will be back in Tier 3 again...

 

[Bald Rick]

I personally have jumped to the assumption that Bolton (where my Mum lives) will be back in Tier 3 again...

I suspect you are right, but cases are falling there rapidly.

It will be interesting to see the criteria for calculating where falls into which tiers. I’m sure many more areas will be a tier up from pre lockdown 2, but that many will drop down a tier between now and Christmas.

 

[philosopher]

And another thing....

People in Tier 1 areas will of course be able to visit any family and friends in other Tier 1 areas as often as they like whenever they like over the festive period, so long as they obey the rule of 6 for indoor gatherings. Now that doesn’t help everyone, of course, but it does help a lot of the population (subject to tomorrow’s announcements).

The support and childcare bubbles do allow some degree of household mixing even in tiers 2 and 3. I suspect most people could bubble up with another household using these bubbles. The childcare bubble for example could be used for grandparents to visit their grandchildren on Christmas Day.

 

[bramling]

The support and childcare bubbles do allow some degree of household mixing even in tiers 2 and 3. I suspect most people could bubble up with another household using these bubbles. The childcare bubble for example could be used for grandparents to visit their grandchildren on Christmas Day.

I really think any notion of bubbles is in practice going to be an irrelevance. People will see who they deem it appropriate for them to see, whether that fits some kind of bubble or not. In other words, what they’ve been doing since the spring.

 

[Horizon22]

What an odd statement. A train won't be 'busy' until people start using them. Somewhat chicken & egg.

As for Boxing Day, TfL are running a whole 2tph to Heathrow, I guess they can judge demand on that and see how it goes.

But unlike other years there is a time limit when you can visit family.
Surely running trains over two days will spread out demand, rather than everyone traveling on the 27th resulting in travel chaos and overcrowded trains??

But people have never used rail on Boxing Day, and so people shouldn't certainly expect something that never previously existed. Why would it be "travel chaos"? Sounds like a tabloid outrage soundbite. Most journey planners will show you the Christmas works already.

 

[bramling]

What an odd statement. A train won't be 'busy' until people start using them. Somewhat chicken & egg.

As for Boxing Day, TfL are running a whole 2tph to Heathrow, I guess they can judge demand on that and see how it goes.



But people have never used rail on Boxing Day, and so people shouldn't certainly expect something that never previously existed. Why would it be "travel chaos"? Sounds like a tabloid outrage soundbite. Most journey planners will show you the Christmas works already.

I suspect most recent Boxing Day demand has been driven by people travelling to specific venues, in particular shopping centres, but also sports events. I can’t see that many people using it for journeys to see family, as on Boxing Day they’re already there.

It isn’t practical to run a service to cater for those who wake up, see the weather’s okay, decide that they’re now bored, and fancy a little trip to the shops at the nearest urban centre.

It’s already common to see such people turning up at the station and expressing horror when they find there’s no trains. Clearly the fact that other people may well also wish to enjoy Christmas never enters their mind.

 

[STINT47]

I can se some people deciding to 'illegally' travel home on the 28th.

If you can be with your family on the 27th are the police realistically going to raid your house at 00:01 on the 28th? or would they turn a blind eye to someone catching a train in next morning?

The same probably applies to arriving a day early, plus you could lways wait in the front garden till after midnight if your being watched !

 

[cactustwirly]

What an odd statement. A train won't be 'busy' until people start using them. Somewhat chicken & egg.

As for Boxing Day, TfL are running a whole 2tph to Heathrow, I guess they can judge demand on that and see how it goes.



But people have never used rail on Boxing Day, and so people shouldn't certainly expect something that never previously existed. Why would it be "travel chaos"? Sounds like a tabloid outrage soundbite. Most journey planners will show you the Christmas works already.

This isn't a normal boxing day though. If some services did run then it would spread the demand out. So everyone doesn't have to travel back home on the 27th. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.

 

[alxndr]

There is still work planned to utilise the opportunity of the closures on Boxing Day. Running trains would mean cancelling all of that work - it's not going to happen.

 

[Bald Rick]

There is still work planned to utilise the opportunity of the closures on Boxing Day. Running trains would mean cancelling all of that work - it's not going to happen.

Indeed - and all the work is planned, rostered and committed - or in other words paid for. Cancelling all Boxing Day work would also mean cancelling most Christmas Day work. We’re talking the thick end of £100m wasted.

 

[dan5324]

Yes us precious drivers that would rather spend time with our loved ones that we haven't seen all year, us precious drivers who have worked all the way through the pandemic many of whom have gone over and above to make sure a service was delivered. Seriously I wish people would think before posting on here. I suspect most of us precious drivers have done considerably more than you during this very difficult year.

Well yeah I’ve been doing a tad more than driving empty tax payer subsidised trains backwards and forwards again, thanks all the same.

 

[MikeWM]

I can se some people deciding to 'illegally' travel home on the 28th.

If I travel to see family - not sure whether I will or not yet - I'd expect to return on the 29th or 30th. I can probably do that entirely 'legally' by declaring a 'support bubble', but I'd really try to avoid travelling on the 27th either way.

(We probably all remember what happened at Finsbury Park on the 27th a few years ago; this seems to have the potential to be similar, or worse.)

 

[marty1977]

Well yeah I’ve been doing a tad more than driving empty tax payer subsidised trains backwards and forwards again, thanks all the same.

I doubt that very much.

 

[LAX54]

This isn't a normal boxing day though. If some services did run then it would spread the demand out. So everyone doesn't have to travel back home on the 27th. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.

To cancel the booked engineering work would cost millions, who will pay, it will then have to be re-planned, along with all the other planned work, and then you get faults / speed restrictions everyone will moan about the railways not being up to scratch...just so a few can go on a train on the 26th.
The reasons train stopped running on the 26th was NO ONE travelled on them !