krus_aragon
Established Member
Just saw a T19 in green TrawsCymru livery heading south from Llandudno (YA13 AAJ?). The T19s I've seen over the past weeks were in Llew Jones livery (i.e. ex X19 ones).
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru
- Thread starter Rhydgaled
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
They're very new looking! And causing some confusion - I've heard a few people now ask drivers on ordinary 19s if they can still use their Llew Jones passes on it (they can).
Markdvdman
Member
Well I waited and waited for the T1C in Cross Hands for 11:25am yesterday, and 32 mins later gave up. I sent a message on Twitter to Adventure Travel. They said it did not run on the weekend due to Operational Issues. That is poor! Trawscymru asked me to email [email protected] so the complaints team can look into it! I do intend to tomorrow too tired today as up at 4:45am to gedt to work this am!!
matt_splat
Member
- Joined
- 19 May 2012
- Messages
- 897
i think the issue is a lot of operators are now seeing operational issues with track and trace
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yep, there aren't many businesses that aren't suffering from that at the moment. And public transport will likely suffer worse, e.g. drivers getting pinged from people on their bus even if they're masked, behind a screen and have the window open.
Markdvdman
Member
The T1C is going to 7 days a week from Sunday coming (25th).
From Traveline Cymru:
Please click here to see the latest updates from NAT.
20/07/2021
Pre-Covid T1C timetable (operating Monday to Sunday) in effect from Sunday 25th July.
From Traveline Cymru:
T1C- NAT:
Please click here to see the latest updates from NAT.
20/07/2021
Pre-Covid T1C timetable (operating Monday to Sunday) in effect from Sunday 25th July.
Bwsbro
Member
- Joined
- 7 Oct 2013
- Messages
- 391
K&P Coaches of Anglesey have announced on their Facebook page that they Have been awarded the TrawsCymru T10 Contract. Former Airport Tempo YA13AAF will operate the service
https://www.facebook.com/608783352791115/posts/1446978618971580/?d=n
https://www.facebook.com/608783352791115/posts/1446978618971580/?d=n
Where is the T10 operating please?
WelshBuses93
Member
Corwen to Bangor via Betws y Coed and Bethesda.
That link no longer works, illustrating why any links to external sources must be accompanied by a relevant quote from that source.
Operated using just one vehicle? Must be quite infrequent if so, so I'm guessing that YA13AAF won't be the only vehicle running it.
Bwsbro
Member
- Joined
- 7 Oct 2013
- Messages
- 391
Looks like the operator has deleted the post
That gives them even more days to cancel it owing to operation issues!
Markdvdman
Member
Indeed both a positive and negative!!
johntrawscymru
On Moderation
- Joined
- 22 Jun 2018
- Messages
- 118
Where is the T10 operating please?
What happened to the rest of the route, the part that had a few more bus passengers ie Corwen to Chirk/Oswestry? Will it link with the T3 at Corwen or with the proposed T16 between Corwen and Chester. ?
What happened to the rest of the route, the part that had a few more bus passengers ie Corwen to Chirk/Oswestry? Will it link with the T3 at Corwen or with the proposed T16 between Corwen and Chester. ?
Bwsbro
Member
- Joined
- 7 Oct 2013
- Messages
- 391
It will be interesting to see what they come up with when the timetable is fully Published, you would hope that journeys would connect in Corwen with the T3.
It will be interesting to see what further proposals Traws have for the network, there was a report in this months Buses magazine that there is proposals for an additional service down in South Wales. Would be interesting to see if they decide to do something with the Denbigh Wrexham X51 bus if things don't go back to normal with Arriva in September
It will be interesting to see what further proposals Traws have for the network, there was a report in this months Buses magazine that there is proposals for an additional service down in South Wales. Would be interesting to see if they decide to do something with the Denbigh Wrexham X51 bus if things don't go back to normal with Arriva in September
johntrawscymru
On Moderation
- Joined
- 22 Jun 2018
- Messages
- 118
Thanks . The Buses Magazine article is very interesting . . .
TRAWSCYMRU: TIME FOR A RADICAL RETHINK?
A thorough review of the strengths and weaknesses of the long-distance network...
www.keybuses.com
I would agree with this as Free Weekend travel has failed to increase passenger numbers in mid week. The Blainey review covers the T3 and points out that three diversions into villages off the main A5/A494 add at least 20 min to Wrexham-Barmouth journey times (What a surprise! Why does the T2 services have to wait in Dolgellau for 15 minutes to wait for the T3 from Wrexham?)
The Blainey review states that the T3 could be extended from Wrexham to Chester. If a way could be found to omit the T3’s many village detours, Barmouth-Wrexham journey times would reduce by up to 30 min, and the saving could enable the buses to serve Chester. The review quotes both 20 min and 30 min savings. I would agree with the 20 mins for the diversion into Llanuwchllyn and the South Clwydd villages, but 30 mins would only be achieved by a direct route between Llangollen and Wrexham missing out Ruabon train station . However missing out Ruabon would be a wise move as T3 passengers do not get on or off there. Blainey has recognised that large savings on journey times can be achieved on the T3 between Wrexham and Dolgellau but has failed yet again to recognise that those savings could be used to restore connectivity in Aberystwyth between the T2 and T1 on the original Trawscambria route which is the only means of public transport down the West side of Wales.
The review also recommends two new routes in north Wales . The T15 would connect Rhyl and Wrexham via St Asaph, Denbigh and Ruthin The proposed T16 would connect Corwen with Chester railway station via Ruthin and Mold. The logic of extending the T3 to Chester and also having a T16 service from Corwen to Chester is not explained .
David Blainey is a former Flintshire County Council transport officer based in Mold, Flintshire and if this article is accurate then his review is biased towards expansion of the Trawscymru Network in North Wales. It would be interesting to see the actual review and look at the evidence for the proposed new routes.
Not good news for the T1C
TRAWSCYMRU: TIME FOR A RADICAL RETHINK?
A thorough review of the strengths and weaknesses of the long-distance network...
www.keybuses.com
The strategic review makes no recommendations for withdrawal of any TrawsCymru services . However on the T1C (Aberystwyth-Cardiff daily return coach) Blainey concludes:
This is another bit of Welsh Government, “propaganda” in order to write off the T1C. The 2018/19 Trawscymru report states:
The 2019/20 Trawscymru Annual report states “15,736 T1C passengers” . So where did David Blainey get the 9,311 figure from as that figure does not feature in the 2017-18 Trawscymru Annual report and he should have used the 2018/19 figure if his review was completed in September 2019? If the T1C had 8 services per day like all other TrawsCymru services it may well carry 128,000 passengers per annum). In 2018 the Welsh Government promised to look again at restoring 2 services per day as with the original 701 service and failed to do so. The T1C is unlike any other Trawscymru service and only caters for passengers travelling from Aberystwyth to Cardiff.. The population of Cardiff cannot use the T1C unless they want to travel in the evening. Blainey also states that the T1C flouts the criteria that TrawsCymru should not parallel existing train services, which is rather a strange claim in that no rail link exists between Aberystwyth and Carmarthen or Aberystwyth and Cardiff.
Last edited by a moderator:
It does parallel train services between Carmarthen and Cardiff though (as does the T2 between Machynlleth and Aberystwyth, the T4 and T14 between Merthyr and Cardiff the T9 throughout (if you count Rhoose Cardiff International Airport station as being Cardiff International Airport) and the T19 throughout). There isn't really any logic to what makes a 'TrawsCymru' service that I can see, it seems to have become just a mixed bag of services with an element of Welsh Government direct funding rather than purely commertial or local-authority supported.
johntrawscymru
On Moderation
- Joined
- 22 Jun 2018
- Messages
- 118
You have hit the nail on the head. It needs to define whether it is a long distance network to take traffic off what is a poor road network or a collection of local services branded as Trawscymru. It needs a thorough review with extensive research on where passengers want to go (ie a very thorough survey of road traffic patterns and some form of national consultation of those potential passengers who do not have their own transport ).
Dai Corner
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 6,351
Indeed. I thought Trawscymru was supposed to complement the railway network, not compete with it. Isn't the T4 commercial between Cardiff and Merthyr though?
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
You are correct that the T4/T14 is a commercial service between Cardiff and Merthyr.
However, Airport Station requires a shuttle bus to connect it from the station which is really just Rhoose Station with a confusing name. Hence why the direct bus service doesn't really compete with rail (though arguably isn't a TC route either) - it was a political move to support the Airport.
As regards the T1C, it was a replacement for the old 701 service of Lewis Coaches; when they went bust, there was an uproar and concern about the loss of the popular direct service. Once a day is hardly competitive with the rail service.
Extending the T3 to Chester.... that didn't work last time so not certain the logic of doing that nor how cost effective it would be to do that and add in another local Bwcabus service. However, the Bangor to Corwen service is a ridiculous waste.
johntrawscymru
On Moderation
- Joined
- 22 Jun 2018
- Messages
- 118
I do not understand how a route like the T1C can be in competition with the train. The bus market is totally different to the train. In general bus travel is a lot slower, less comfortable and a lot cheaper. Some people would not use a bus if they were paid to use it and others cannot afford to use the train. There are all shades between.
If a family with 3 children wanted to go from Aberystwyth to Cardiff by public transport tomorrow they would have 2 choices by bus or train
The T1C Bus leaves Aberystwyth Bus Station at 09.30 and arrives in Cardiff at 13.05.
The cost is a TrawsCymru Day Ticket £11.00 return per adult or a £27 Group Ticket for up to 2 adults and 3 children
The train leaves Aberystwyth at 09.29 and arrives in Cardiff at 13.42
The cost is £66.90 one way per adult or £70.60 return. 2 adults and 3 children age 5-15 will cost £246.10 .
The fact that the railway was closed between Aberystwyth and Carmarthen now means that the train is slower than the bus and the train is exorbitantly expensive . So only those people who would not use a bus if they were paid to use it would consider the train. For 99% of people the alternative is the T1C or a car. If the Welsh Government wish to take cars off the road between North West Wales and Cardiff they need to either restore the Aberystwyth to Carmarthen railway or improve the T1C service.
Once a day is a joke. The idea that nobody in the whole of Cardiff and South East Wales wants to travel up the Western side of Wales shows the arrogance of the Welsh Government and their lack of interest in improving transport options in West Wales. When the T1C was first introduced the contract was awarded to NAT who are based in Cardiff. The obvious choice would have been for NAT to run a T1C service from Cardiff in addition to a T1C service from Aberystwyth. NAT soon disappeared from the scene and the T1C is unusable by the residents of Cardiff and South East Wales unless they travel North in the evening and stay overnight.
If the T1C only needs to work in one direction why not have the T4 run one way and once a day from Newtown to Cardiff.? The T4 bus takes 3 hrs 45 mins and the train from Cardiff to Newtown takes 3 hours 15 minutes. Therefore not much difference to the T1C
Last edited:
Dai Corner
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 6,351
I can't remember the last time I saw a stereotypical family (mum, dad and two or three children) on the bus. It seems to be fairly rare on trains too. The car (owned or hired) is a much better solution for a group of 3-7, just as a self-drive minibus is for 8-15 or private hire coach is for a group of 16-50.
Regarding the T1C in particular, why does it compete not only with the railway but with First Cymru buses between Carmarthen and Cardiff? If WG feels travel between Aberystwyth and Cardiff should be highly subsidised for social or political reasons why not offer Carmarthen-Cardiff train tickets at a nominal price to T1C users? The bus could then do a return trip to Aberystwyth instead, making it more useful.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
It was a straight replacement for the previous 701. There hasn't been a northbound version since the days of Rhondda so about 20+ years ago.
Sometimes, I think you read too much into things.
I can't understand why they cant extended the T3 to Nantwich, as no public transport between Wrexham and Nantwich. To do the journey by bus you have to do 84 Crewe to Chester and, Arriva 1 Chester to Wrexham (about 2 hours)
I believe years ago the former X94/94 did extended to Nantwich, and then upto few years ago a separate (one journey in each direction) Nantwich to Wrexham (D&G)
I believe years ago the former X94/94 did extended to Nantwich, and then upto few years ago a separate (one journey in each direction) Nantwich to Wrexham (D&G)
markymark2000
On Moderation
The 89 which D&G ran under a Cheshire East tender had some loadings but certainly nothing huge and certainly no where enough to sustain a very regular service such as the T3. The potential growth for a route would be dismal. Even now, using the Stagecoach 5 to Holt and Farndon, the usage isn't that high. From there to Nantwich, it's the smallest of small villages. I don't think you would get anywhere near decent usage. You'd be lucky to fill a trip per day, let alone a very regular service. It does fit the TrawsCymru way of operating though, sending a bus through every village of over 30 residents.
Given the route would be primerilly in Cheshire, you would be reliant upon Cheshire East funding it as well and doing that is like getting blood out of a stone.
Chester - Wrexham has a lot more potential for growth but I don't feel that it is needed with the 1. Yes it would be good to have a faster bus but do you want an irregular faster bus if it means that Arriva will drop the 1 down in frequency because of the lost revenue..... I'd say no. Nice to have, yes. Needed, No.
A lot cheaper yes, at least if you have a concessionary travel pass (I think they're valid for free travel on the T1C?) but the T1C between Carmarthen and Cardiff isn't much slower than the train. In fact, during Arriva's CymruExpress era, when they had seperate coaches (routes 10 and 20 if I recall correctly) to Swansea and Cardiff (the latter not stopping at Swansea) I seem to recall that the coach to Cardiff was faster than most trains (because most trains travel via Swansea). Not sure about comfort levels - a class 175 is probably way nicer than the T1C but if the train is a 150 there probably isn't much in it.
This social stigma (is that the right word for it?) is a big problem and I've long felt it needs to be addressed - there are many places where a rail link would never make sense but we can't just let people drive due to climate change. Buses are (or were) clearly the answer. However, now COVID has come along and I probably wouldn't use a bus (or even a train) unless you paid me a very significant sum to do so (and possibly not even then). I really hope this is only temporary and that I'll be back on public transport next year, but it's starting to look like that may never be possible.
Why not improve the T1 service and the rail service between Carmarthen and Cardiff and have passengers change at Carmarthen?
johntrawscymru
On Moderation
- Joined
- 22 Jun 2018
- Messages
- 118
A very reasonable suggestion . But unless a cheap through ticket could be arranged not affordable for many. The cost of the train from Carmarthen to Cardiff is £22.70 return . For a family of 2 adults and 3 children age 5-15 this will cost £79.45. Then they would still have to fork out the £27 for Group Ticket for the T1.
I agree integration of buses with trains and integration of buses with buses is a must if we are to take cars off the road.
However the Welsh Government (WG) do not appear capable of doing this . The T2 15.15 Bangor departure reaches Machynleth rail station at 18.09 missing the departing London train at 18.05 by 4 minutes. On 20/12/2017 the WG placed an emergency application to the Traffic Commissioner to change the T2 timetable effective from 01/01/2018. There was no publicity regarding this change whatsoever Prior to 01/01/2018 this T2 from Bangor connected with the train in Machynleth . Prior to 01/01/2018 this T2 arrived in Aberystwyth at Aberystwyth at 18.40 and the T1 departed at 18.40 for Carmarthen. It was possible most of the time to make the T1 connection and a Quality Partnership agreement to delay the T1 departure by 5 minutes (same as Newtown and Dolgellau) would have guaranteed connection. On 01/01/2018 the WG introduced a 5 minute wait for the T2 in Machynleth for no reason whatsoever and diverted the T2 on the outskirts of Aberystwyth through a small village and Housing estate so that it arrived at 18.50. Yes integration of transport modes is fine but how can we expect private operators to do it when the WG do not do it themselves?
Last edited by a moderator:
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Not only that - but they actively decided not to take the Trawscymru strategy that way, which is and was nuts.
johntrawscymru
On Moderation
- Joined
- 22 Jun 2018
- Messages
- 118
Do we know why there is no requirement for a T1C Northbound service from Cardiff up the West side of Wales when there are 5 T4 Northbound services per day between Cardiff and Newtown. None is a pretty small number compared to five. It is definitely an advantage to have five fingers instead of none.
- Status