TRIVIA/DISCUSSION - Bus Stations: to have and to have not

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've noted the current discussion about the trials and tribulations of Elgin bus station. It's a town I've only ever visited once, and it seems to have a relatively small and basic facility. Not brilliant and there's many towns that size that don't have any bus station. One such is Stratford on Avon (which I visited on Saturday) that hasn't had a bus station for 30+ years. So the question is...

Which towns are without a bus station but could do with one? And which towns have bus stations that really could do without them (or could manage with something smaller)?

Please can people substantiate their opinions with a bit of justification (i.e. why do you think x-town in particular needs a bus station?). Given that many local authorities have neither the cash to build or maintain anything, this may be a bit of a wish list but please keep the suggestions sensible

 

[Teapot42]

Chesterfield is a bit of an odd one. We don't strictly speaking have a bus station, we have a coach station which more buses than coaches use... Still, only a handful of services do use it, most use one or both of New Beetwell Street and the Church Street / Stephenson Place / Cavendish Street / Elder Way area.

Neither is that pleasant to spend any time, and connecting between services isn't so easy either. The need for some services to lay over or wait time means the stands are spread out, there isn't much covered waiting area, no toilet facilities and limited information.

There is no obvious central location for one that would suit all services, and no interest from the council in providing bus priority across the town centre to improve things.

There were schemes a few years back to develop a 'Northern Gateway' to Chesterfield, and to have a relief road past the station. At the time I did suggest some minor changes would allow them to build a bus station no the 'donut' (Holywell Cross Car Park) and divert non-bus traffic away from St Mary's Gate to reduce delays across the town centre, but as with most things councils 'consult' on they'd already made their minds up what they were going to do, and things the residents wanted weren't on the priority list.

 

[Parebunks]

Cheating a bit as we do have one of sorts, but Oxford could really do with a proper *bus* station, as opposed to Gloucester Green which is essentially just a coach station. There's no central hub for changing routes in the city centre, and some quite substantial interurban routes don't go anywhere near Gloucester Green (e.g. Reading and Aylesbury routes). My preference would be to build one on the current car park between Hythe Bridge Street and Park End Street, reckon you could fit about 9-10 drive-through stops and a moderately-sized terminal building, plus maybe three stops on Worcester Street. Then turn Gloucester Green into a layover facility for some routes, maybe downsize it a bit to expand the market square.
On the flipside, the County Council seem to be reevaluating whether Banbury really needs a bus station of the size it has, especially given some of the town routes don't use it anyway. On the fence about whether it would be sensible to get rid of it entirely as it is a slightly useful facility when changing buses, but certainly in the realm of 'nice to have' rather than essential.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose it really depends on how many regional/inter-regional services start and terminate at that location. For most small to medium sized towns that don't have any/many terminating services, cross-town operation in my view tends to work better because it allows a choice of destinations in the centre, plus if thought is put into what you pair up either side of the centre you can provide direct services to the key destinations which may be useful for some.

Certainly Milton Keynes works better with cross-city operation as the centre is quite large and the walks involved from a single bus station would make the service even more unpopular than it is. It does sort of have two bus stations, the railway station and the Point, but they're only sort of bus stations, more a collection of stops. The original bus station has long since closed and is used as a car park and community centre; if all buses terminated in that location bus travel would be very unpopular, with a walk of almost a kilometre uphill to the main shopping and entertainment areas.

 

[Strathclyder]

Perhaps this is better suited to another thread, but Clydebank already has a bus station; it just needs a better one (if you can call the current ramshakle affair an actual bus station). I'm not holding out any hope for a Hamilton or Partick-style refurb/rebuild anytime soon though. This is clearly beyond West Dunbartonshire Council's reach financially, who can scarcely afford to maintain what's there now, never mind a complete refurb or a complete new-build.

 

[WAB]

And which towns have bus stations that really could do without them (or could manage with something smaller)?

Ripon's bus station is a cramped island, and its four stands could be replaced by a single long bay with more waiting space. 9bph is not that much, especially when many are minibuses.

 

[Hyebone]

Chesterfield is a bit of an odd one. We don't strictly speaking have a bus station, we have a coach station which more buses than coaches use... Still, only a handful of services do use it, most use one or both of New Beetwell Street and the Church Street / Stephenson Place / Cavendish Street / Elder Way area.

Neither is that pleasant to spend any time, and connecting between services isn't so easy either. The need for some services to lay over or wait time means the stands are spread out, there isn't much covered waiting area, no toilet facilities and limited information.

There is no obvious central location for one that would suit all services, and no interest from the council in providing bus priority across the town centre to improve things.

There were schemes a few years back to develop a 'Northern Gateway' to Chesterfield, and to have a relief road past the station. At the time I did suggest some minor changes would allow them to build a bus station no the 'donut' (Holywell Cross Car Park) and divert non-bus traffic away from St Mary's Gate to reduce delays across the town centre, but as with most things councils 'consult' on they'd already made their minds up what they were going to do, and things the residents wanted weren't on the priority list.

I clicked on this thread hoping to complain about Chesterfield but it appears you beat me to it!

For example: if you want to get from Newbold to Killamarsh, you have to alight the number 10 on Elder Way, walk 350m mostly across cobbles to New Beetwell Street (even longer if the precinct is closed) to catch the 80.

We need a bus station; but where? You mentioned the donut but I don't think that's big enough. When they demolished the Saltergate car park, they could've redone the area to make a decently sized and well placed bus station. Mansfield, a town of similar population has a brilliant bus station with most services terminating (all but the Pronto,1 and 141 I think).

 

[Statto]

Southport, were they've been talking about building a new bus station for years, but nothing had been done since the old Ribble/North Western bus station was closed in the late 80s, most Southport town services operate across the Town Centre, were as most of the inter urban services start/terminate in the Town Centre, their is a couple of exceptions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Southport, were they've been talking about building a new bus station for years, but nothing had been done since the old Ribble/North Western bus station was closed in the late 80s, most Southport town services operate across the Town Centre, were as most of the inter urban services start/terminate in the Town Centre, their is a couple of exceptions.

The railway station is an utter dump (aside from the nice trainshed) so perhaps something could be done with that for proper integration, which now Merseytravel will be re-regulating buses might be a good part of their integration strategy. On the other hand, stops on Lord Street are convenient for just about everyone, so the only advantage would be an indoor waiting area (which could be shared between bus and rail).

 

[Teapot42]

For example: if you want to get from Newbold to Killamarsh, you have to alight the number 10 on Elder Way, walk 350m mostly across cobbles to New Beetwell Street (even longer if the precinct is closed) to catch the 80.

What makes this dafter is they could surely have worked the timetable so at least one of the short 1s was an extension of a 10 to maintain a direct link to the hospital?

While not as bad as your example, cross-town connectivity in almost any direction isn't great. It's actually easier and often a safer connection for us to go from 90 to X17 at Stonegravels than in the town centre for example. However, the 90 which meets the peak-time X17 from Sheffield doesn't run across town so you've got to hope you aren't too badly delayed or you miss the connection.

Not exactly OT, but the other problem with our services is that you often have to start off going the 'wrong way' to get somewhere. Newbold to Sheffield is a great example, and is why I was pushing Stagecoach to extend the 42 via the bypass and Newbold to town at the last timetable change. Even all-stops it would have been considerably quicker for anyone going in to Sheffield than getting a 10 then walking to meet an X17. A radial service could help with both of these, but Stagecoach management are adamant that won't work.

I wonder if there will be any sort of bus interchange built at Peak Resort if / when it finally opens? While it would add a couple of minutes to divert the X17 off the bypass it could be a good northern hub in to whatever other services they are planning to provide from there.

We need a bus station; but where? You mentioned the donut but I don't think that's big enough. When they demolished the Saltergate car park, they could've redone the area to make a decently sized and well placed bus station. Mansfield, a town of similar population has a brilliant bus station with most services terminating (all but the Pronto,1 and 141 I think).

My idea was to re-route the roads around the 'top' of the donut (in both directions), which would have opened up space near what used to be Poundstretcher. This would have had the added benefit that you wouldn't need to cross a major road to get in to town. There are plenty of other places the Innovation Centre could have been built to allow this, but someone in the council had that idea so it had to happen, no matter how many empty offices we already have in town.

I wonder however, maybe a more radical approach would have been possible with the current market place development? As the main market is at a fraction of capacity, maybe New Square could have been redeveloped as a mini bus station, with Soresby Street and Glumangate as access? That would have put public transport in the centre of town, with maybe a free shuttle bus giving access to areas like Ravenside and the Railway Station?

 

[overthewater]

I think top of this list has to be Cumbernauld, even on a sunny day it still looks like Soviet Union waste land, it just looks so grotty, and how I still don't know how people get from one side of the stance to the other at night?

It used to have walkway but that shut 25 years ago? Travel centre shut 15 years ago? it just needs to be knocked down.

 

[Butts]

I think top of this list has to be Cumbernauld, even on a sunny day it still looks like Soviet Union waste land, it just looks so grotty, and how I still don't know how people get from one side of the stance to the other at night?

It used to have walkway but that shut 25 years ago? Travel centre shut 15 years ago? it just needs to be knocked down.

Second that but at least The "Gulag" is still operational.

Falkirk Bus Station has been shut for years but is still extant and accessible with the tumbleweed ever present.

Is there anywhere else in the UK with such a feature ?

 

[Megafuss]

I've noted the current discussion about the trials and tribulations of Elgin bus station. It's a town I've only ever visited once, and it seems to have a relatively small and basic facility. Not brilliant and there's many towns that size that don't have any bus station. One such is Stratford on Avon (which I visited on Saturday) that hasn't had a bus station for 30+ years. So the question is...

Which towns are without a bus station but could do with one? And which towns have bus stations that really could do without them (or could manage with something smaller)?

Please can people substantiate their opinions with a bit of justification (i.e. why do you think x-town in particular needs a bus station?). Given that many local authorities have neither the cash to build or maintain anything, this may be a bit of a wish list but please keep the suggestions sensible

Darlington is the sort of town that should have a Bus Station. Lots of interurban services North/South/East/West and a substantial town network + the odd Nat Ex.

At present the stops are all over the centre of the Town. So, Interchange is a bit of a mixed bag.

On the flip side, Wooler doesn't need it's Bus Station at all.

If I was being harsh, I'd say Castle Donnington. It doesn't need a Bus Station, but it is a handy glorified turning circle.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Darlington should have a bus station. Much of the service from Darlington is inter-urban, given the nature of County Durham, yet trying to find where to catch your bus is an absolute nightmare. Obviously I’d not want it to be like the old Feethams bus station, which with all the diesel fumes was like breathing in pure cancer, but it needs something.

With a Time Machine I’d have made it a planning condition of the shopping centre to build one.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Some really good shouts for places that feel like they should have one. Chesterfield is an excellent example and has long been a curious confection with the "coach station" on quite a pronounced slope. As @Teapot42 and @Hyebone note, it's a notable case and moreso when compared with Nottinghamshire where Mansfield isn't the only place with a rather (over)impressive bus station.

Congrats to @Parebunks for two examples illustrating the case on both sides and that have their genesis in ill conceived property deals. Oxford (Gloucester Green) is one of the worst facilities - terrible customer facilities and its not great for drivers manoeuvring. The alternative you make seems sensible. Banbury similarly had a large bus station that was redeveloped but I don't really see why it needs a bus station when the local routes use the street out the front by the town hall.

@Megafuss has also identified one close to my heart with Darlington. The old one was awful but buses are now spread out all over the town centre. The obvious location was built on (Crown St) but there's the car park on Commercial Street which would be easy for routes arriving from the North and East. And yes, Wooler... I know what you mean. Same with Ripon!

In answer to @Butts, Taunton bus station closed in early 2020 and is still as it was. However, it is supposed to be reopening thanks to BSIP funding as a "mobility hub".

 

[Tetchytyke]

Wooler doesn't need it's Bus Station at all.

Calling it a bus station is charitable!

 

[Andyh82]

There is obviously nowhere for one to go, but it’s a shame there wasn’t better terminus facilities in Manchester

Piccadilly Gardens is pretty sub standard, but then you have the likes of Oldham Street with many major bus services going from standard bus stops on narrow pavements


York is also pretty poor with interurban routes going from busy stops outside the station, mixed in with local buses, but once the station gateway works are finished, it should be much better

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Calling it a bus station is charitable!

It has three stands - A, B and...D. It really is a bit pointless.

One place that has never had a bus station (AFAIK) is Stockton on Tees. Always find that a faff. One place that used to have a bus station but no longer has is Scarborough, and always thought that Westwood bus park could be that rather than EYs bus park

 

[Teapot42]

Calling it a bus station is charitable!

Similar to Castleton I guess, more just a bit of space off-road for buses to lay over for a short while.

 

[route101]

There is obviously nowhere for one to go, but it’s a shame there wasn’t better terminus facilities in Manchester

Piccadilly Gardens is pretty sub standard, but then you have the likes of Oldham Street with many major bus services going from standard bus stops on narrow pavements


York is also pretty poor with interurban routes going from busy stops outside the station, mixed in with local buses, but once the station gateway works are finished, it should be much better

I know you have Shudehill but services from the South terminate at Piccadilly Gardens could be served by a bus station.

Clydebank has a bus station but its not located near the shops and is used as a layover point.

Southampton has a NX coach station but no central bus station.

Salisbury also comes to mind.

 

[m79900]

Not as bad as Ashbourne's. It's just two shelters at the side of a road.
Also Wirksworth. It has no bus station, and doesn't really need one, but I'd like it to because I live there.

 

[Teapot42]

Some really good shouts for places that feel like they should have one. Chesterfield is an excellent example and has long been a curious confection with the "coach station" on quite a pronounced slope. As @Teapot42 and @Hyebone note, it's a notable case and moreso when compared with Nottinghamshire where Mansfield isn't the only place with a rather (over)impressive bus station.

I've not been here long enough to have seen it, but I believe there was once a bus station on the same site, although the whole area has been massively redeveloped. Even in Stagecoach Yorkshire territory, Barnsley has a really nice bus station, and Matlock has one at least under cover.

 

[WibbleWobble]

On the flipside, the County Council seem to be reevaluating whether Banbury really needs a bus station of the size it has, especially given some of the town routes don't use it anyway. On the fence about whether it would be sensible to get rid of it entirely as it is a slightly useful facility when changing buses, but certainly in the realm of 'nice to have' rather than essential.

I was surprised at what I thought was the bus station turned out not to be the bus station! Being hidden down a glorified alley meant I thought the bus station was actually the collection of stops outside on Bridge Street.

Anyway, with a little bit of a rejig of the road layout, I reckon a couple of extra stops could easily be added to offset any loss of the bus station.

 

[K4016td]

Slough hasn't got one for more than 2 years since the fire and it seems buses can perfectly get along without one, however as the bus stops are not thought out properly along Wellington Street changing buses between them is a nightmare, especially with low frequencies of every 30mins - 1hr on most routes it is really easy to miss a changeover. Also bearing how many sets of traffic lights are within 100 yards of the bus station it took forever to get in and out.

Regarding the building itself maybe it was ''looking nice'' but for passengers it was more of a wind tunnel anyway so it does not make any difference whether people are waiting in bus shelters along the street or in this facility that wasn't completely thought out as it gave more shelter to the buses than it did to the passengers. The indoor waiting area was minimal with a corner shop cramped into it which didn't help either.

 

[Dai Corner]

Weston-super-Mare used to have a combined bus station and depot occupying a prime seafront position until the site was sold off for development. A town of its size, with the additional tourist traffic of a seaside resort, ought to have a proper bus station in my opinion.

One town which doesn't need its bus station is Bargoed in Caerphilly County Borough. Buses generally do a loop including the High Street (where nearly all passengers board or alight) and the grandly named Interchange (where hardly anybody does, despite it's relative proximity to the railway station). The toilets closed years ago and I'm not sure I'd feel safe there after dark.

 

[MedwayValiant]

Nairn bus station isn't even as fancy as Wooler. It's one stance in a car park outside a kebab shop, but it does provide the layover space that may not be available anywhere else in the town.


Maidstone bus station is a curious beast. It's a rather dingy tunnel underneath a shopping centre - not totally unlike Cumbernauld, in fact - and it's not really in the town centre. Maidstone's busiest inter-urban route is the 101 to/from Chatham, which doesn't go anywhere near the bus station. Many routes serve both the bus station and the High Street, but the 85 - the main town service for the south side of town - serves only the bus station.

To change from a 101 to an 85 is a rather tedious (and un-signposted) 12 minute walk. It doesn't seem quite far enough to go to the trouble of getting another bus rather than walking, so that tedious walk it is.

There's nowhere to put a bus station actually in the town centre, so I'd have some sympathy with anyone who wanted to say that the bus station the town does have is worse than useless.

 

[overthewater]

Does anyone remember the old Newcastle bus station Eldon Square?

 

[matchmaker]

Second that but at least The "Gulag" is still operational.

Falkirk Bus Station has been shut for years but is still extant and accessible with the tumbleweed ever present.

Is there anywhere else in the UK with such a feature ?

Falkirk is a surprising one. Stirling has one which isn't too bad - it's beside the railway station and attached to the Thistles shopping centre. Flixbus and Ember however use stances at an (almost) out of town Park and Ride!

 

[sk688]

I'm surprised that nWatford never had a bus station

 

[markymark2000]

Bus Stations to get rid of:
Prescot - The biggest 2 core routes don't serve the bus station. It's a waste of a 'bus station' really and it could easily be 2 normal bus stops. Passengers would rather the buses wait time up the road at Tesco.
Hereford - Specifically County Bus Station. Hereford has 5 bus interchange points, all of them within a mile of each other. You've got the train station, County Bus Station literally a few minutes walk, then Shirehall (which some buses terminate at), Maylord Shopping Centre (which is served by most buses which go past) and then City Bus Station (which is for buses mostly around the city). Country Bus Station has plenty of alternative interchanges nearby. It's out of the way and serves little purpose. Given the space there, the number of buses and passenger numbers really don't justify it as many passengers would just as happily use the bus from the train station or a roadside stop. Land could be much better used.
Nelson (South Wales) - It's just 2 bus stops on an island with facilities consisting of 2 normal bus shelters and few benches. Naming it a bus station is just silly.
Port Talbot - Specifically the town one. Port Talbot Town Bus Station is absolutely dire. It's run down as heck. Horrible hard wood seats inside. To get out to the bus stops you have to use push doors (no automatic door or opening) so it's not very accessible. Most of the signage inside is years out of date because the council refuse to correct it. Buses could and should be transferred over to Port Talbot Parkway which then enables a bus/train interchange. I would however replace the bus station with 2 bus stops in the same location for the shopping centre, but ideally move interchanges and layover over to Port Talbot Parkway (which in itself should be made slightly larger so that it can accommodate coaches because someone built a bus station which couldn't accommodate tri axle coaches)
Lydney - It's basically just using the shop overhang from the community transport charity shop as shelter, and there is a bench. It's hardly a bus station and it could very easily be replaced by some high quality bus stops on the main road. Lydney only has 2 core bus routes anyway and both of them run through.


Bus stations which are needed:
Cheltenham! Buses are just all over the city and there is no central place to catch the bus. The Promenade, Royal Wells, Pitville Street, Clarence Street seem to be the main ones (maybe only ones) but when you're connecting between buses, it's awful.
Ludlow - Not overly helped by the awful road network in the town but buses don't seem to have a half decent central meeting point. Some of them run to/from near the castle, while some to Galdefield. A proper bus station or interchange to get all of the buses would be useful, maybe near the train station for interchange and most of the buses stop at the train station already.
Dolgellau - Maybe not full bus station but sort out the awful interchange. Because of the somewhat willy policies of the Welsh Govt and councils, Dolgellau, a tiny town with very tight roads, had a period for 10 minutes every 2 hours whereby there are 5 buses at Eldon Square. Buses block the roads and passengers can't find their bus as sometimes they are loading in the middle of the road and you have to cross in the middle of buses to get on. Because of 2 buses almost always loading in the road, it's not very accessible for people with less mobility. There's a few benches here and shelter is provided by the shop front of a few shops (benches and shelter are in different places though). It's just a really, really poor experience. It's 10 minutes of absolute chaos for buses, passengers, and the town, and a better interchange of sorts is direly needed.