TRIVIA/DISCUSSION - Bus Stations: to have and to have not

[158756]

This is Colne bus station. Only 1 stand gets much use for buses going to Burnley. Buses going away from Burnley to Keighley, Trawden, Barnoldswick and Skipton go from the parallel Market St. You could replace the bus station with a layby IMHO edit. google maps link added - https://maps.app.goo.gl/n9wEyGUdNCqPb6V98

Lancashire County Council are planning to spend BSIP money on reconfiguring Colne town centre, which will "centralise access to bus services at the bus station", presumably meaning all buses will go there rather than Market Street.

Previous plans were to put a bus gate on Market Street and have all buses stop there, with the bus station to be closed, but motorists demand to be able to park directly outside the shops, so the buses are now to be kicked out of Market Street to the bus station, which is a pretty bleak place to wait for a bus, especially at night.

The original scheme seemed like a valid use of BSIP funding, but I'm very unconvinced the current plan actually does anything to benefit buses.

 

[RELL6L]

A bus station works well if it is really close to the town centre or else services can serve the two centre and the bus station. Particularly good if they provide layover facilities, waiting room etc. There are some places, eg Kidderminster, where most services serve stops at the town centre and terminate at the bus station. At others, eg Canterbury, Doncaster, Lincoln, they are close to the town centre and often the only stop in the town centre, therefore used by everyone. Notably at these places virtually every service actually terminates here so it is a complete focal point for everything. Sometime they can get a bit crowded - but these are good bus stations for their towns.

In other places the bus station is slightly to one side of the town centre and services from some directions have town centre stops as well whereas others don't. Bedford is an example, again virtually every service terminates, those heading south over the bridge have stops near the town centre, services heading in other directions (eg the X5, 905, 50) do not and all passengers have no option to the bus station. Bradford is the same, for example the 268, 283, 425 in from the south gives no option to the bus station but services heading north have stops in the town centre. Burnley another example. Preston is splendid and well worth keeping, it isn't far from the shops, but again buses heading east do not stop anywhere else.

Stratford was mentioned, that used to have a bus station but it was a walk from the shops, now pretty much all services get closer to the shops. At St Albans and Tunbridge Wells, also mentioned, all services serve all parts of the town centre and overlap, which is good for proximity but not so good for waiting facilities etc and the other benefits a bus station can provide, plus of course terminating services stand on the streets. I think Darlington works OK, the stops are all pretty close together although services heading out to the south start in front of the town hall. Where would you put a bus station now?

Colne on the other hand is a waste of time, it would be much better to have a bus contraflow on Market Street and close the bus station.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In answer to @Butts, Taunton bus station closed in early 2020 and is still as it was. However, it is supposed to be reopening thanks to BSIP funding as a "mobility hub".

When I lived in Taunton for five years, I only ever once had cause to use the bus station as most town services terminated at the central roundabout thingy at the end of East Street. This was to travel out towards Yeovil to collect a car, and gave me my last ever run on a Bristol VR. The bus station certainly wasn't the worst I've encountered but it did seem a bit hidden away in the back streets. I do wish we'd do away with silly names like "mobility hub" for things though- do such rebrandings have any sort of measurable effect?

As for ones in towns that you could probably do without... There's a few in West Yorkshire and Greater Manchester that seem quite grand and could be easily lost.

Certainly Cleckheaton, Batley and Ossett come to mind as slightly over the top in West Yorkshire, ditto Middleton in Greater Manchester.

At the time they were built, the smaller West Yorkshire stations were certainly extravagant but did have far more buses and routes serving them than they do today. Batley in particular had the 229 until that was diverted away due to traffic issues (mostly caused by impatient minicabs who treat red traffic lights as a mere suggestion!). They also had tenants operating the retail units, which made them a fair bit more pleasant to use- now they just scream neglect with the shutters being permanently down, and are magnets for anti-social behaviour.

Oddly Heckmondwike didn't get a fancy gold-plated bus station like neighbouring Batley & Cleckheaton did, it just got a so-called "bus hub" (which is a fancy name for a concrete plaza with bus shelters round the edge) after years of making do with on-street stops. The "bus hub" only lasted around 8-9 years and was closed last year to be replaced by a "proper" bus station building on the same site, construction of which is causing traffic chaos as there's nowhere (other than the Arriva depot) for buses to lay over. Pedestrians also have to cross the main road twice to get around the cordoned-off construction site.
Given the fancy buildings in places like Batley and Ossett, it's surprising that Holmfirth doesn't have a more substantial facility. What's there is perfectly adequate but given the not insignificant amount of inbound visitors I'm surprised the PTE didn't give the place something akin to what Ossett has.

 

[Andyh82]

Given the fancy buildings in places like Batley and Ossett, it's surprising that Holmfirth doesn't have a more substantial facility. What's there is perfectly adequate but given the not insignificant amount of inbound visitors I'm surprised the PTE didn't give the place something akin to what Ossett has.

Probably because they don’t own any land, they’d have to buy some from somebody such as whoever owns the adjacent car park

The fancy bus stations at Ossett, Batley etc were all built on the site of the previous bus stations which were already in bus industry ownership

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Probably because they don’t own any land, they’d have to buy some from somebody such as whoever owns the adjacent car park

The fancy bus stations at Ossett, Batley etc were all built on the site of the previous bus stations which were already in bus industry ownership

This is true, though the car park is owned by Kirklees council rather than say NCP. The loss of the parking spaces might be a problem, though Holmfirth isn't short of parking compared to say Hebden Bridge, as there's plenty between the Co-op and the market hall. There's even a nice (and short) riverside walk between there and the main shopping area and Picturedrome.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A bus station works well if it is really close to the town centre or else services can serve the two centre and the bus station. Particularly good if they provide layover facilities, waiting room etc. There are some places, eg Kidderminster, where most services serve stops at the town centre and terminate at the bus station. At others, eg Canterbury, Doncaster, Lincoln, they are close to the town centre and often the only stop in the town centre, therefore used by everyone. Notably at these places virtually every service actually terminates here so it is a complete focal point for everything. Sometime they can get a bit crowded - but these are good bus stations for their towns.

In other places the bus station is slightly to one side of the town centre and services from some directions have town centre stops as well whereas others don't. Bedford is an example, again virtually every service terminates, those heading south over the bridge have stops near the town centre, services heading in other directions (eg the X5, 905, 50) do not and all passengers have no option to the bus station. Bradford is the same, for example the 268, 283, 425 in from the south gives no option to the bus station but services heading north have stops in the town centre. Burnley another example. Preston is splendid and well worth keeping, it isn't far from the shops, but again buses heading east do not stop anywhere else.

Stratford was mentioned, that used to have a bus station but it was a walk from the shops, now pretty much all services get closer to the shops. At St Albans and Tunbridge Wells, also mentioned, all services serve all parts of the town centre and overlap, which is good for proximity but not so good for waiting facilities etc and the other benefits a bus station can provide, plus of course terminating services stand on the streets. I think Darlington works OK, the stops are all pretty close together although services heading out to the south start in front of the town hall. Where would you put a bus station now?

Colne on the other hand is a waste of time, it would be much better to have a bus contraflow on Market Street and close the bus station.

The best bus stations do tend to be of reasonable quality (not a raft of bus shelters) that are reasonably close to the main shopping area and really should be dealing with lower frequency services (which tend to be interurban).

Stratford on Avon... I thought that used to be at Bridgefoot (by the tourist information) and just across the road from the main bus stops on Bridge Street. I did notice as I wandered about the other week that the expansion of Bell Court seems to have tilted the balance of the town centre further away from Bridge Street, which may explain why the former BHS store is still empty after 8.5 years. It isn't a great place to wait for a bus with no shelters at that point either. I was always in favour of a bus station in Darlington on Crown Street but they redeveloped the car park where Sports Direct now is. That said, they demolished the old SD (originally MFI) on East Street but I can't remember what that is destined to be. Not for the local services but just for the interurban routes.

As for Colne... it's neither use nor ornament so wouldn't be a great loss. Make it a car park and then give the bus passengers better facilities in the centre.

Probably because they don’t own any land, they’d have to buy some from somebody such as whoever owns the adjacent car park

The fancy bus stations at Ossett, Batley etc were all built on the site of the previous bus stations which were already in bus industry ownership

I remember many of these bus stations in West Yorkshire from the early 1990s. IIRC, the old Ossett bus station was in WYPTE ownership by that time, as was Cleckheaton (it still had some NBC era signage though). However, I'm not certain the old Batley bus station was; it was semi derelict and markedly worse than other locations so wonder if it was purchased by Metro at some point. This photo shows the boarded up travel office and exit (courtesy Paul Coupland on flickr) https://www.flickr.com/photos/14222...ohWqAv-2okKqT8-2okGt3L-2jX7wv5-jvUpr2-2gWR3v6 The current one is much better but I guess service cuts have made it massively overcapacity - same view in the modern day from Guy Arab

Exit area of Batley bus station

Explore Guy Arab's 4126 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

 

[Jimmi]

Darlington should have a bus station. Much of the service from Darlington is inter-urban, given the nature of County Durham, yet trying to find where to catch your bus is an absolute nightmare. Obviously I’d not want it to be like the old Feethams bus station, which with all the diesel fumes was like breathing in pure cancer, but it needs something.

With a Time Machine I’d have made it a planning condition of the shopping centre to build one.

Darlington is a weird one, the idea of a bus station pops up every now and again (usually after an incident) and opinions in the past have largely been people want the buses to keep stopping where the shops are, whereas any suggestions as to where a bus station could go would be away from pretty much anywhere people would want to be, the redevelopment of Darlington Rail Station suggests it will become a "transport interchange" but doubt it will be anything more for local buses than what's currently in place besides maybe looking slightly prettier.

Vast majority of the buses leave from Tubwell Row aside from town services 9/10 & 13A/13B which leave from Prebend Row, whilst services into North Yorkshire plus services 6/6A, 16 & X75/X76 leave from Feethams, most town services additionally stop on Northgate & Crown Street with some out of town services setting down there as well.

I'm slightly surprised that Bishop Auckland is getting a new bus station considering the bus services offered and the town centre itself is not what it once was, whenever I used services from there prior to the closure, it seemed like more people would board the services from stands along Newgate Street rather than the Bus Station, although the current temporary arrangement has stands too far away from one another.

 

[cactustwirly]

There is one thing that could take a lot of traffic out of central Reading and help things (the proposed 3rd Thames Bridge from Thames Valley Park to Playhatch), but the north side authority at that point (South Oxfordshire) have always opposed it.
That would be one thing that the new government could help with planning wise.

Any further interventions would need 1) trams or 2) a congestion charge zone for central Reading to stop most of the east west through traffic and force it via the M4/roads like Lower Earley Way.

The 3rd Thames crossing is pure fantasy at this stage. RBC bang on about it but it will never happen, not enough support for it.

Adding a congestion charge doesn't solve the problem, it just moves it to other roads. Lower Earley way is already congested especially at Peak times and so is the A33 and M4.
Plus heading to Oxford via the M4 is such a long way vs the A4074. The NIMBYs in Caversham Heights don't like the trucks going past their houses.

What it really needs is the idiots removing and a new adminstration taking charge with sensible policies, rather than playing bus lane bingo with the BSIP money.

 

[Tetchytyke]

opinions in the past have largely been people want the buses to keep stopping where the shops are, whereas any suggestions as to where a bus station could go would be away from pretty much anywhere people would want to be

The ideal place would be on Crown Street just behind the Cornmill shopping centre. I don’t know if there are plans for the land, but the derelict land between Crown Street and Priestgate looks perfect.

 

[Sussexwatch]

A few observations. Brighton it works well without a bus station. Most city services run cross city while terminating services use stands at Churchill Square or Old Steine. There is/was a bus station at Pool Valley, once used by many Southdown services but which is only used by National Express these days and looks very neglected. People seem to know to go to one of the two hubs at Churchill Square or Old Steine. Unfortunately the Old Steine area is being remodelled at present and space for buses and bus stops will be reduced this year.

Canterbury Bus Station is central and should work well but it is very congested. It would help if the back of the waiting area could be extended but I expect there are ownership issues. The bus station was built by East Kent in the 1950s so I expect it is now owned by Stagecoach. Buses used to pick up at stands on both sides but now only the north side is in use and buses have to reverse out of stands which requires supervision. City Services used to stop on street but that is no longer feasible, they are now relegated to stands at the far end of the bus station which is less congested.

On recent trips to Yorkshire, I was confused in Darlington trying to find a bus to Richmond. I went to Tubwell Row (in pouring rain) where I thought all buses were and where I thought I caught a bus a few years ago. The information on each stop only referred to routes stopping there so I eventually had to ask a driver who directed me. I was pretty soaked by the time I found the right stop and remember thinking it would have been much easier if all buses left from Tubwell Row which didn't seem too busy (admittedly lunchtime on a very wet Monday probably wasn't a busy time).

Holmfirth has been mentioned, I know it well and while small it easily copes with the numbers using it and is in an excellent location right in the town centre. In theory it could be extended into the car park opposite but I doubt whether that will ever happen. Huddersfield has a very good covered bus station, a similar design to Leeds. It is large and well located in the town centre, close to the rail station, with plenty of space for buses to layover before pulling onto the stand. Even at peak times it copes well with good real time information. Last time I used it (from Holmfirth on a 310) I had a 7 minute train connection and made it easily.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The ideal place would be on Crown Street just behind the Cornmill shopping centre. I don’t know if there are plans for the land, but the derelict land between Crown Street and Priestgate looks perfect.

I think we're talking about the same place...? Apparently, the council have now acquired the former Wilko store and multi-storey car park on East Street too so the whole area is zoned for redevelopment. A bus station has not been mooted though.

I was always in favour of a bus station in Darlington on Crown Street but they redeveloped the car park where Sports Direct now is. That said, they demolished the old SD (originally MFI) on East Street but I can't remember what that is destined to be. Not for the local services but just for the interurban routes.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think we're talking about the same place...?

We are, yes (I'd not noticed you'd mentioned it too!). A short walk to the shops and next to the main road for easy access for the interurban services.

I was confused in Darlington trying to find a bus to Richmond. I went to Tubwell Row (in pouring rain) where I thought all buses were and where I thought I caught a bus a few years ago.

That's always been the problem with Darlington ever since Feethams shut, the bus stops have never been consistent. When I first moved to the north east the Durham buses went from Prebend Row, then it was Tubwell Row for a bit, then it was East Street outside the old Wilkinson's, and I think it is now back to Tubwell Row. The Richmond buses were the same and now they're all the way down at Feethams, right next to the site of the old bus station which everyone at the time said was too far out of the town centre.

 

[pitdiver]

I live between Mansfield and Worksop so I often use Mansfield bus station. Always found it to be a comfortable place to be it is near the shopping centre and close to the Railway stn. No complaints but I have never used the cross town services so can't comment on them.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Certainly Cleckheaton, Batley and Ossett come to mind as slightly over the top in West Yorkshire, ditto Middleton in Greater Manchester.

As for ones in towns that you could probably do without... There's a few in West Yorkshire and Greater Manchester that seem quite grand and could be easily lost.

I think both WYPTE and GMPTE have taken the view- correctly, in my opinion- that if something is worth doing then it is worth doing properly.

Certainly in WYPTE the bus stations in places like Cleckheaton and Ossett replaced what used to be a bit of hardstanding and a collection of tatty old bus shelters. Obviously the cheapest option would have been to shut the sites completely and the cheaper option would have been to replace the bus shelters with new ones. But I think they made the right decision to replace them with proper buildings. WYPTE had a basic design for these bus stations, they're all identikit, and so they're not as over-engineered as they first appear.

I wouldn't say Middleton was particularly overblown for what it is and where it is, right next to the shopping centre in the middle of a new town.

Back in the north east, I'd say Consett needs a bus station rebuild to the standard of that in nearby Stanley. Who's going to pay for it though, that's the question.

 

[Teapot42]

One place I don't think has been mentioned so far is Bakewell.

I'm not sure it needs a bus station per se, but having one could bring other benefits to the town. Currently through services up the A6 have limited options for waiting time, and any that terminate also don't have what I'd call an ideal place to layover. Services from the North / East (Chesterfield / Sheffield direction) do have three stands in the Square (plus one layover spot) but there are still times these get congested. I nearly missed a bus there once as the stand was occupied and the driver hadn't realised we were waiting for him rather than the service laying over.

Not that Bakewell is that big anyway, but the Square is fairly central so that's a plus point.

One suggestion that has been made is to replace Granby Road car park with a bus station with layover facilities, and make Granby Road bus only. (Other than access) It's pretty much as central to all attractions, avoids some of the congested areas, but would need lights on the A6 junction to let buses out.

If done right with more facilities built in then it might work, but would add more pressure to the already limited car parking provision in Bakewell.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think both WYPTE and GMPTE have taken the view- correctly, in my opinion- that if something is worth doing then it is worth doing properly.

Certainly in WYPTE the bus stations in places like Cleckheaton and Ossett replaced what used to be a bit of hardstanding and a collection of tatty old bus shelters. Obviously the cheapest option would have been to shut the sites completely and the cheaper option would have been to replace the bus shelters with new ones. But I think they made the right decision to replace them with proper buildings. WYPTE had a basic design for these bus stations, they're all identikit, and so they're not as over-engineered as they first appear.

I wouldn't say Middleton was particularly overblown for what it is and where it is, right next to the shopping centre in the middle of a new town.

Back in the north east, I'd say Consett needs a bus station rebuild to the standard of that in nearby Stanley. Who's going to pay for it though, that's the question.

I know we have differing opinions but for somewhere like Batley, you have a bus station with all the attendant costs of heat, light, power and business rates for 12 buses per hour - that's what I mean by overengineered. Cleckheaton may have been built on the old site but it is still in the wrong location, away from the town centre, as evidenced by the retail unit being closed for years. As for Middleton, it's a massive building for 12 stands. My personal fave is South Yorkshire's Dinnington Interchange - I don't know if it's also lost services over recent years but it's quite the facility for the 6 buses per hour it gets.

Consett is on its 3rd bus station in 50 years as it is. The current one is a bit basic but it's fine IMO (and much better than the one it replaced). Perhaps the best example of a bus station being appropriate is Peterlee. I think it opened early 2000s (and is similar to Consett) and replaced a set of roadside stops on Burnhope Way. They had grim bus shelters, little layover parking and required people to take a diversion to use an underpass to get to half the stops (which people didn't do - they just tried crossing a busy road). Peterlee isn't a flashy bus station. I've not visited for a while but has a cafe (which was the old Arriva travel office and drivers' welfare?), and a shop? Busier than those WYPTE examples and not nearly as grand.

Interesting that Bishop Auckland is getting a new bus station (and yes, replacing that terrible windswept collection of bus shelters) but one of the main reasons for its construction is to increase car parking in the town centre!

 

[Teapot42]

Perhaps the best example of a bus station being appropriate is Peterlee. I think it opened early 2000s (and is similar to Consett) and replaced a set of roadside stops on Burnhope Way. They had grim bus shelters, little layover parking and required people to take a diversion to use an underpass to get to half the stops (which people didn't do - they just tried crossing a busy road). Peterlee isn't a flashy bus station. I've not visited for a while but has a cafe (which was the old Arriva travel office and drivers' welfare?), and a shop? Busier than those WYPTE examples and not nearly as grand.

Peterlee is an interesting example, as I grew up in the next town and travelled through there often - from 16 to 18 daily on the X40 to 6th Form in Durham.

In some ways, I preferred the old arrangement. Yes, you sometimes needed to cross the road, but most often changes were on the same side. The underpass entrance was right next to the stops, so really no further than having to walk from one 'aisle' to another in most bus stations.

The main benefit over the existing layout is that it was right by the top of the main pedestrian route down to the shops, and right next to what used to be Peterlee College and Library. The way through to the shops now is a big of a dingy passageway.

(As an aside, I once witnessed an older gentleman get hit by a bus that he was crossing behind - it needed to reverse - and someone I knew was actually hit and killed by a bus in Peterlee)

Whether linked or not I can't tell, but there used to be services that bypassed Peterlee (such as the 230) which seemed to get re-routed or replaced by services going via it, which wasn't as convenient for many. Indeed it seems to have been made in to a connection hub which may benefit some, but when you get cases like anyone in Easington Village having to get a bus to Peterlee to get the X10, which then comes back past but without stopping, it gets daft.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I know we have differing opinions but for somewhere like Batley, you have a bus station with all the attendant costs of heat, light, power and business rates for 12 buses per hour - that's what I mean by overengineered. Cleckheaton may have been built on the old site but it is still in the wrong location, away from the town centre, as evidenced by the retail unit being closed for years.

I suppose the question about bus stations in all these smaller towns is really whether they need a bus station at all.

Batley probably doesn't need one now that the bus service has been Arriva'd into oblivion but it was, in fairness, different when it was built. A bit like Ossett, it has to be said.

The benefit of Cleckheaton's bus station (and Heckmondwike's when it gets built) is that it lets the buses wait time/layover without getting in the way of traffic on the busy and narrow roads through the town.

You can probably say the same about Bishop Auckland. Given how the town centre has basically moved to the retail park at Tindale Crescent it doesn't need a bus station at all other than as a place for buses to wait time or layover. But my view is that if you're going to build a rudimentary bus station then you may as well build a proper one; it's now the only place in some of these towns where you can reliably find a public toilet.

The different styles between areas are interesting. GMPTE/TfGM bus stations from 10-15 years ago have a much larger footprint because they seem to have deliberately avoided the drive-in-reverse-out (DIRO); Middleton would probably be half the size if it was (fully) DIRO, same with Wythenshawe and Rochdale.

Consett probably wouldn't be quite so bad if it was more sheltered and didn't have so many access doors. It just ends up being a wind tunnel and, as you know, the one thing Consett has a lot of is wind. It's an awful place to wait. Peterlee is fine because it's a lot more sheltered.

 

[noddingdonkey]

The other question is what constitutes a bus station - the two shelters next to each other in Wetherby for example?

I would dispute how well Huddersfield bus station works in these days of less frequent services, 5 seats per stand is not really a sufficient waiting facility with more people having to wait longer for a bus, and people waiting for a bus at a stand in a central part of the station blocking the way of passengers trying to get to other stands.

 

[Statto]

I find the new build TFGM bus stations are quite nice, Wigan had their bus station rebuilt a couple of years ago, now drive in reverse out type of bus station, & works well (not been to the new Stockport bus station yet, but will do in time), passengers are on one concourse now rather than crossing over bus lanes to get to the stands, the only criticism is the passenger area is a bit small & can be a bit cramped.

Anyone remember the old Manchester Arndale bus station, think it was opened in 1981, it was an indoor bus station, but that was an awful & bleak place to wait for a bus, with the smell of diesel fumes from the buses, ecc, the Arndale bus station closed after it was badly damaged in the 1996 bomb explosion (buses ended up going from Cannon Street), which accelerated the regeneration of that area, Shudehill Interchange is the replacement, you can still see one of the old entrances/exits to the Arndale bus station on Withy Grove, it's the entrance/exit to the loading bays.

I actually prefer the reverse in drive out type of bus stations, the passenger area is often on one concourse which means changing & waiting for buses is quite simple & under one roof, plus modern drive in reverse out bus stations have automatic doors at the stands, until the bus arrives at the stand, so it's quite comfortable waiting for buses.

 

[Hyebone]

I actually prefer the reverse in drive out type of bus stations,

I can't say I've ever heard of one of these? Do you have an example?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I suppose the question about bus stations in all these smaller towns is really whether they need a bus station at all.

Batley probably doesn't need one now that the bus service has been Arriva'd into oblivion but it was, in fairness, different when it was built. A bit like Ossett, it has to be said.

The benefit of Cleckheaton's bus station (and Heckmondwike's when it gets built) is that it lets the buses wait time/layover without getting in the way of traffic on the busy and narrow roads through the town.

You can probably say the same about Bishop Auckland. Given how the town centre has basically moved to the retail park at Tindale Crescent it doesn't need a bus station at all other than as a place for buses to wait time or layover. But my view is that if you're going to build a rudimentary bus station then you may as well build a proper one; it's now the only place in some of these towns where you can reliably find a public toilet.

The different styles between areas are interesting. GMPTE/TfGM bus stations from 10-15 years ago have a much larger footprint because they seem to have deliberately avoided the drive-in-reverse-out (DIRO); Middleton would probably be half the size if it was (fully) DIRO, same with Wythenshawe and Rochdale.

Consett probably wouldn't be quite so bad if it was more sheltered and didn't have so many access doors. It just ends up being a wind tunnel and, as you know, the one thing Consett has a lot of is wind. It's an awful place to wait. Peterlee is fine because it's a lot more sheltered.

Heckmondwike is a place that has managed with no bus station, got a bus hub (which just formalised what was already there) and now needs some rather large edifice. It just seems a bit much for what is needed. There is a place to have perfectly functional bus stations that aren't so grand. Where next... South Elmsall? Wetherby? Then you have ones like North Shields... who knew that was needed? Don't get me wrong - the one in South Shields was desperately required!

Bishop as a town has been destroyed by the planning decisions allowing Tindale to be the main shopping objective. The bus station did need replacing however. As for Consett, I've never noticed it being overly windy within the bus station. Cold, yes, very, and if it does funnel the wind, then that's a failure of the design but not the size and scale of the building.

I find the new build TFGM bus stations are quite nice, Wigan had their bus station rebuilt a couple of years ago, now drive in reverse out type of bus station, & works well (not been to the new Stockport bus station yet, but will do in time), passengers are on one concourse now rather than crossing over bus lanes to get to the stands, the only criticism is the passenger area is a bit small & can be a bit cramped.

Anyone remember the old Manchester Arndale bus station, think it was opened in 1981, it was an indoor bus station, but that was an awful & bleak place to wait for a bus, with the smell of diesel fumes from the buses, ecc, the Arndale bus station closed after it was badly damaged in the 1996 bomb explosion (buses ended up going from Cannon Street), which accelerated the regeneration of that area, Shudehill Interchange is the replacement, you can still see one of the old entrances/exits to the Arndale bus station on Withy Grove, it's the entrance/exit to the loading bays.

Don't get me wrong - the TfGM bus stations are very nice, very large etc. Oldham is a bit weird with the two separate buildings but overall, they just seem absolutely humungous. Stockport is ok though seemed to attract lots of bored teens... Interesting how Merseyside hasn't gone in for such structures e.g. compare Huyton with Hyde

I only vaguely recall Arndale but it was like many uncover ones... Darlington, Blackpool, Birmingham Bull Ring, Newcastle Eldon Square that were awful fume ridden hellholes.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The other question is what constitutes a bus station - the two shelters next to each other in Wetherby for example?

I would dispute how well Huddersfield bus station works in these days of less frequent services, 5 seats per stand is not really a sufficient waiting facility with more people having to wait longer for a bus, and people waiting for a bus at a stand in a central part of the station blocking the way of passengers trying to get to other stands.

The big issue at Huddersfield (like at neighbouring Dewsbury) is anti-social behaviour. I suspect that's one of the reasons there's so little seating at each stand, and at Dewsbury most of the seating at each stand was ripped out during COVID. Dewsbury is set to be refurbished this year (work might even have started now, it's a while since I've been as the town is essentially a ghost-town these days) but I'm not holding out much hope that the seating situation will improve.

 

[markymark2000]

I find the new build TFGM bus stations are quite nice, Wigan had their bus station rebuilt a couple of years ago, now drive in reverse out type of bus station, & works well (not been to the new Stockport bus station yet, but will do in time), passengers are on one concourse now rather than crossing over bus lanes to get to the stands, the only criticism is the passenger area is a bit small & can be a bit cramped.

TFGM bus stations would work a lot better if it wasn't for the silly 5mph limit throughout the whole bus station (most bus stations at 10mph and work fine). It wouldn't be so bad if it was 5mph only behind reversing stands but no, even at Wigan near the layover area, it's 5mph. TFGM bus stations are just needlessly slow and make bus journey times longer than needed.

 

[JKP]

I can't say I've ever heard of one of these? Do you have an example?

Used to be a lot of those. Plymouth Bretonside Bus Station was like that until the mid 1970s was when built in the 1950s most buses had the passenger entrance at the rear and carried a conductor to reverse the bus onto the stand.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The other question is what constitutes a bus station - the two shelters next to each other in Wetherby for example?

There is a place to have perfectly functional bus stations that aren't so grand. Where next... South Elmsall? Wetherby?

I suppose these two things are linked: what is a bus station anyway, and what does a bus station need to be to be a bus station?

Even in West Yorkshire there's plenty of inconsistency. Shipley Market Place isn't a bus station although it effectively is yet Wetherby is called a bus station despite having one stand. South Elmsall is basically just a bus turning circle. So is Ilkley (and probably shouldn't be).

I suppose my point with bus stations generally is that if you identify that your location needs a public toilet block and facilities for the drivers then you may as well build a proper building. The next argument would be whether some of the locations in West Yorkshire need those facilities- I'd say Cleckheaton and Heckmondwike do, South Elmsall and Hemsworth don't, and Ossett and Batley probably did when they were built but probably don't now. Shipley and Ilkley need those facilities too but you probably can't build a proper bus station in those locations, same with Holmfirth and Wetherby.

Then you have ones like North Shields... who knew that was needed? Don't get me wrong - the one in South Shields was desperately required!

I'd say they were equally needed. Both towns were the same- a motley collection of bus shelters scattered across the town centre. If only Whitley Bay still had one instead of a half-empty shopping mall.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

What actually constitutes a Bus Station is very much up for debate to be fair. A while back WYPTE went on a bit of a flurry of calling certain collections of stops an "Interchange". Waterloo (near the now Team Pennine depot) is one example, and Denby Dale (one stop in a turning circle next to the railway station) another.

 

[Statto]

I can't say I've ever heard of one of these? Do you have an example?

I meant i prefer the drive in, reverse out type of bus stations.

 

[AlastairFraser]

The 3rd Thames crossing is pure fantasy at this stage. RBC bang on about it but it will never happen, not enough support for it.

Adding a congestion charge doesn't solve the problem, it just moves it to other roads. Lower Earley way is already congested especially at Peak times and so is the A33 and M4.
Plus heading to Oxford via the M4 is such a long way vs the A4074. The NIMBYs in Caversham Heights don't like the trucks going past their houses.

What it really needs is the idiots removing and a new adminstration taking charge with sensible policies, rather than playing bus lane bingo with the BSIP money.

Hahaha. If Reading doesn't get a tram system or a 3rd Thames Bridge (the latter being one of the easier options to implement), you'd be dreaming to think anything else can be realistically be done to improve public transport (short of large scale demolition to change the fundamental urban design issues of the town).

The congestion charge would at least push through travellers out of the Borough and onto better strategic highways that they should be on in the first place.

For way too long, Woky BC/West Berks/South Oxon have shoved more and more suburban traffic on Reading's radial roads, by approving poorly designed and isolated new build estates constantly.
Look at the farce at Arborfield, for example. It's time that those road users start paying the proper price for all the costs RBC taxpayers have to pick up from the wear and tear caused by their cars.

On the topic of RBC, it will always be a **** council for a number of reasons, no matter who runs it.

Firstly, it's too small and needs to incorporate the whole of the Reading urban area, so that it accurately represents the people who actually live in the place (I'm considering the Reading urban area as the current boundaries of the Borough in the north, the M4 to the south, Lower Earley Way/The Bader Way and the eastern urban limits of Woodley for the eastern boundaries and the western urban limits of Purley, Tilehurst and Calcot on the west. Exclude Sonning as it doesn't really fit in the urban area, in contrast to e.g. Purley. ).

Secondly, the council is largely officer-run and needs some more proper scrutiny, compared to from all of the parties who have administered in the past.
Some independents would be nice to break the easy ride a lot of council staff have enjoyed (I was the election agent for my mother standing as an Indy a few years back, but unfortunately it's really hard to mount a serious campaign without a party backing you!).

 

[py_megapixel]

Sheffield is one of those places were most of the local services operate cross City, the Interchange is used mostly for interurban services although some local services use the Interchange, Sheffield Interchange used to be a lot bigger too, Sheffield Digital Campus has been built were some of the stands used to be, a lot of the cross Sheffield services call at Arundel Gate.

Sheffield is one of those places, no matter what direction you're going in you're going uphill or downhill, & some of the hills can be steap too.

Sending everything through the Interchange is clearly not the solution but I think there are some bits of Sheffield centre that could really do with sorting out. There is what feels like a continuous stream of bus stops all the way through the city centre, plus the stops on High Street / Church Street, and it can be quite tricky to work out which route serves which stop. Even Travel South Yorkshire don't seem to understand this - for a while after the most recent round of timetable changes the 95 from Walkley was serving both CS2 and CS3 for some reason!

The quality of the said stops also varies massively - some just poles in the ground, some properly substantial affairs with big glass shelters, raised kerbs and live departure boards, and everything in between.

It would be a good idea to consolidate this a bit - perhaps take inspiration from the Oxford Road corridor in Manchester, where they have long sections of pavement with multiple bus stops, and each route serves exactly one stop in each section.