Trivia - journey which requires the most changes

[willgreen]

Which journey from one British station to another requires the most changes?
A few rules - firstly, the route needs to be as short as possible. You shouldn't go from Manchester to Euston with a change at Birmingham New Street, for example - since a direct Manchester-Euston service exists, this is irrational.
There must be at least a daily service to the station. Denton etc. are not included. (Which also means summer only services are not valid. Sorry!)
Don't take into account timings. I'm sure there are plenty of journeys which cannot be completed within a day (a topic for another thread perhaps?) but this should be ignored - it's the changes required that are the subject of this thread, not the theoretical possibility.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Thurso to St Ives

 

[willgreen]

Thurso to St Ives

How many changes is that? (Sorry should have specified this in the OP?)

 

[GRALISTAIR]

5

 

[NorthOxonian]

Shanklin - Ryde Pier Head - Portsmouth Harbour - Basingstoke - Crewe - Inverness - Thurso would be six also be five (apparently I can't count), though the ferry means this probably doesn't count (and there may be a more efficient route).

 

[joncombe]

What type of train is allowed? I mean many cross-London journeys will require the use of the tube (and often multiple e.g. to change from Waterloo to Kings Cross). So would a change between Waterloo be two trains (two tube trains). Meaning any journey into Waterloo and out of Kings Cross would automatically be 4 even if the service was direct into Waterloo and out of Kings Cross. If you factor in routes you'd have to make (at least) one change then the numbers would quickly rise

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Shanklin - Ryde Pier Head - Portsmouth Harbour - Basingstoke - Crewe - Inverness - Thurso would be six, though the ferry means this probably doesn't count (and there may be a more efficient route).

Fantastic - love it. Good suggestion.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Fantastic - love it. Good suggestion.

Sadly I'm pretty sure I counted wrongly (it is six services, not six changes), but would still tie with your initial suggestion.

 

[willgreen]

Sadly I'm pretty sure I counted wrongly (it is six services, not six changes), but would still tie with your initial suggestion.

Think you were right first time, that's seven services! (Edit: no it isn't. Oops)

What type of train is allowed? I mean many cross-London journeys will require the use of the tube (and often multiple e.g. to change from Waterloo to Kings Cross). So would a change between Waterloo be two trains (two tube trains). Meaning any journey into Waterloo and out of Kings Cross would automatically be 4 even if the service was direct into Waterloo and out of Kings Cross. If you factor in routes you'd have to make (at least) one change then the numbers would quickly rise

The tube counts as one change, no matter how many tube journeys you actually take (not a perfect solution but otherwise as you say the numbers of changes will become dominated by tube or similar journeys).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Thurso to St Ives

How many changes is that? (Sorry should have specified this in the OP?)

St Ives - St Erth Change
St Erth -Bristol Change
Bristol - Crewe Change
Crewe - Inverness Change
Inverness - Thurso

So my five may only be 4 changes

 

[MarlowDonkey]

St Ives - St Erth Change
St Erth -Bristol Change
Bristol - Crewe Change
Crewe - Inverness Change
Inverness - Thurso

So my five may only be 4 changes

The Marlow branch at peak hours can be good for that.

So
St Ives - St Erth Change
St Erth -Bristol/Exeter Change
Bristol/Exeter - Reading Change
Reading - Maidenhead Change
Maidenhead - Bourne End Change
Bourne End - Marlow

At some times of day, there may be through trains from St Erth to Reading.

 

[backontrack]

Shanklin - Ryde Pier Head - Portsmouth Harbour - Basingstoke - Crewe - Inverness - Thurso would be six also be five (apparently I can't count), though the ferry means this probably doesn't count (and there may be a more efficient route).

Fantastic - love it. Good suggestion.

In that spirit, here's a geographically shorter one:

Ryde Esplanade to Ryde Pier Head
Ryde Pier Head to Portsmouth Harbour
Portsmouth Harbour to Southampton Central
Southampton Central to Leamington Spa
Leamington Spa to Stourbridge Junction
Stourbridge Junction to Stourbridge Town

 

[NorthOxonian]

In that spirit, here's a geographically shorter one:

Ryde Esplanade to Ryde Pier Head
Ryde Pier Head to Portsmouth Harbour
Portsmouth Harbour to Basingstoke
Basingstoke to Leamington Spa
Leamington Spa to Stourbridge Junction
Stourbridge Junction to Stourbridge Town

And a much quicker one too - it can apparently be done in under six hours (with the change at Southampton Central not Basingstoke - leaving Ryde at 1340 and getting to Stourbridge at 1938).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Slightly OT but in my haulage days I deliberately chose tickets with the maximum changes and slipped in some unnecessary ones too!

 

[backontrack]

And a much quicker one too - it can apparently be done in under six hours (with the change at Southampton Central not Basingstoke - leaving Ryde at 1340 and getting to Stourbridge at 1938).

Thanks for checking this Good spot about Southampton, I've updated my post to add that.

Can we go below five hours on another route? I'm trying to think of more shuttle services like at Stourbridge.

 

[aliceh]

Shanklin - Ryde Pier Head - Portsmouth Harbour - Basingstoke - Crewe - Inverness - Thurso would be six also be five (apparently I can't count), though the ferry means this probably doesn't count (and there may be a more efficient route).

I can go one better (and this is the most efficient route the journey planner came up with):
Shanklin - Ryde Pier Head - Portsmouth Harbour - London Waterloo - London Euston - Liverpool Lime Street - Bidston - Neston

That's six changes if ferry and tube is taken into account

 

[NorthOxonian]

I can go one better (and this is the most efficient route the journey planner came up with):
Shanklin - Ryde Pier Head - Portsmouth Harbour - London Waterloo - London Euston - Liverpool Lime Street - Bidston - Neston

That's six changes if ferry and tube is taken into account

Sadly, I think you can knock one of those changes off, by using the daily Euston - Wrexham General service then changing onto a train for Neston there. But it's still a good shout.

 

[backontrack]

Ryde Esplanade - Ryde Pier Head - Portsmouth Harbour - London Waterloo - Oxford Circus - London King's Cross - Doncaster - Habrough - Ulceby

Eight changes. (Yes, there's a direct Southampton-Doncaster service, but this is the quickest way; I've checked.)

 

[willgreen]

Ryde Esplanade - Ryde Pier Head - Portsmouth Harbour - London Waterloo - Oxford Circus - London King's Cross - Doncaster - Habrough - Ulceby

Eight changes. (Yes, there's a direct Southampton-Doncaster service, but this is the quickest way; I've checked.)

I'm afraid it's not about speed - changes are what we're looking for - and the Waterloo - King's Cross counts as one change.

 

[backontrack]

I'm afraid it's not about speed - changes are what we're looking for - and the Waterloo - King's Cross counts as one change.

Hmm. Would this work?

Stranraer - Kilmarnock - Carlisle - London Euston - London Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour - Ryde Pier Head - Shanklin

 

[philthetube]

I think we need another thread for most changes offered for a journey planner, without forcing any.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Hmm. Would this work?

Stranraer - Kilmarnock - Carlisle - London Euston - London Waterloo - Portsmouth Harbour - Ryde Pier Head - Shanklin

EDIT: Never mind. Kilmarnock-Newcastle direct, then Newcastle to Southampton and then to Portsmouth, loses the extra change.

That service seems to be split in the timetable now - so that could still be a goer.

Edit: But since the service runs through to Glasgow Central from Stranraer, there are various options involving fewer changes, such as Stranraer - Glasgow Central - Newcastle - Southampton - Portsmouth)

 

[backontrack]

That service seems to be split in the timetable now - so that could still be a goer.

Yeah, you're right - I just checked too. Looks like we've found our seven-changer.

 

[BayPaul]

I'm trying to think of a good combination involving Cardiff Bay (as it's 2 changes just to get to the main line), but keep coming up with 5 changes, eg to Stourbridge, Thurso or a branch the other side of London

 

[_toommm_]

Yeah, you're right - I just checked too. Looks like we've found our seven-changer.

It was running on Saturday, I got it from Glasgow Central.

 

[NorthOxonian]

It was running on Saturday, I got it from Glasgow Central.

So it is - that's bizzare. There's only one service which still does the full route, only goes one way, and is on a Saturday evening.

One point of clarificaton - does this rule only apply to stations?

There must be at least a daily service to the station. Denton etc. are not included. (Which also means summer only services are not valid. Sorry!)

If it also applies to routes, then you could argue that it isn't valid.

 

[reb0118]

It's instructive to check the number of changes required for a GB journey compared to a trip from the People's Republic of Dundee to the People's Republic of China. A minimum of three changes required.

 

[PaulHarding150]

Cardiff Bay - Cardiff Queen Street
Cardiff Queen St - Cardiff Central
Cardiff Central - Crewe
Crewe - Glasgow Central
Glasgow Central - Glasgow Queen St
GQS - Inverness
Inverness - Thurso

 

[30907]

The Marlow branch at peak hours can be good for that.

So
St Ives - St Erth Change
St Erth -Bristol/Exeter Change
Bristol/Exeter - Reading Change
Reading - Maidenhead Change
Maidenhead - Bourne End Change
Bourne End - Marlow

At some times of day, there may be through trains from St Erth to Reading.

This only requires two changes - the OP's word - as Bristol/Exeter and Bourne End are optional.

I think the maximum you can get is six: Shanklin to Mallaig.
Changes at Ryde, Portsmouth, Waterloo, Euston, Glasgow C, Dalmuir; via Portsmouth-Bristol-Edinburgh that reduces to 5, but that is not as short as possible (OP again).

Cardiff Bay - Cardiff Queen Street
Cardiff Queen St - Cardiff Central
Cardiff Central - Crewe
Crewe - Glasgow Central
Glasgow Central - Glasgow Queen St
GQS - Inverness
Inverness - Thurso

But Crewe-Inverness can be done on the sleeper direct, so only 4.
Cardiff Bay-Mallaig would be 5.

Sadly, I think you can knock one of those changes off, by using the daily Euston - Wrexham General service then changing onto a train for Neston there. But it's still a good shout.

Or by going Ryde-Portsmouth-Southampton-Birmingham-Wrexham-Neston.

 

[Train jaune]

Can find lots at five but struggling to find six. My favourite is Wick to Walton on the Naze