Trivia: Potentially dangerous trains to catch

[ASharpe]

This is inspired by another where many people consider it abhorrent to ever be on a railway track.

I can think of a few stations where use of a barrow crossing or similar is typical (although not necessarily the only way to cross the track). Gomshall and Horton immediately spring to mind as I have been a regular user of both.

One train at Gomshall that bothers me is the 1743 Redhill to Reading 2V70 at 1607. It arrives just after the train from Reading/Guildford arrives into platform 1 at 1606 and obscures a view of the track from the main entrance and car park that the majority of people approach from.

I have no doubt that drivers of that train will take extra caution when going over the barrow crossing and into platform 2 when the view is obstructed.

Can anyone think of more examples of situations like this where the timing of trains either side of a barrow crossing is particularly unfortunate/(potentially) dangerous?

I am sure there must be some examples where a fast train is involved.

Is this something that planners should avoid? Or was it down to whoever designed the station?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find walking in front of the train to use the passenger barrow crossing at Tywyn a bit freaky, though I don't think it's specifically *dangerous* as the driver will be looking out for it. You don't wait for the train to go as it sits there for a bit pending the arrival of the other one to pass it.

 

[ASharpe]

I find walking in front of the train to use the passenger barrow crossing at Tywyn a bit freaky, though I don't think it's specifically *dangerous* as the driver will be looking out for it. You don't wait for the train to go as it sits there for a bit pending the arrival of the other one to pass it.

I wonder if it would be possible for another train to run wrong way to overtake getting onto a single track section and surprise someone.

 

[alxndr]

Halesworth station has a barrow crossing which has been the objection of some contention in recent years.

A decision has been taken to install gates with additional safety warnings at the approaches to the crossing, warning cyclists to dismount and giving instructions to wait until a train has cleared the platform before crossing safely. The unlocked gates provide the opportunity for users to pause and read the additional safety guidance ahead of crossing. The design will enable disabled people or those with buggies or luggage to pass through if they choose not to use the alternative path over the Norwich Road.

There have been four near misses reported by train drivers since June 2014 where people have attempted to cross with a departing train moving towards them. Any slip or trip by those on the crossing could have meant the train, while moving slowly, may not have been able to break in time, before hitting the person on the tracks.

Earlier this year, Network Rail carried out a nine day census of the crossing, where it recorded 206 incidents of people walking behind or in front of a train in the station, which was soon to depart. In many cases, they were unable to see if a train was approaching from the opposite direction. While the possibility of this was low, the risk remains that an engineering or empty train, not on the timetable, could still pass unexpectedly through.

The census also found 32 cyclists crossed without dismounting their bike. There have been incidents at crossings where cyclists have got their wheels caught in the rails. The gates will encourage cyclists to dismount and pass more safely across the platform and crossing.

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....-new-gates-and-signage-to-encourage-safe-use#

 

[transmanche]

I can think of a few stations where use of a barrow crossing or similar is typical (although not necessarily the only way to cross the track). Gomshall and Horton immediately spring to mind as I have been a regular user of both.

Dent (on the Settle & Carlisle) is the only one that springs to mind. From memory, the only access to/from the southbound platform is via a barrow crossing.

 

[ASharpe]

Dent (on the Settle & Carlisle) is the only one that springs to mind. From memory, the only access to/from the southbound platform is via a barrow crossing.

I think your right, and a quick check shows that could be risky on Sunday catching the 1040
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/DNT/2018/03/18/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[LowLevel]

Bottesford was always awful before they put the bridge in because the down Liverpool express usually coincided with the up local heading towards Grantham. They went to the expense of installing the bridge as it was widely considered to be a 'when' not 'if' that someone would be run over crossing behind the train. I used to hold my train there if I could see it coming and go and stand by the crossing.

 

[Parallel]

Lapford in Devon really isn’t very user friendly at all - mainly because there are steep stairs that lead straight onto a busy road with no pavement.

There are a few on the Cambrian Coast that are riskier than your normal station. Dyffryn Ardudwy being one, though there is a crossing keeper in a porter cabin on the other disused platform. Llanbedr is another where you must walk over the track to use the station. At Tygwyn the only exit is down a ramp that leads straight onto a main road with no pavement!

 

[ac6000cw]

Thurston in Suffolk (first station east of Bury St. Edmunds) is on a busy 75 mph mainline, but only has a foot crossing to access the westbound platform, albeit with 'train approaching' red/green warning lights and sounders, but no gates:

(Photo from ABC Railway Guide - http://abcrailwayguide.uk/thurston-station-staff-level-crossing-suffolk#.WqeLXyjFKUk , looking east, station entrance footpath on the left, westbound platform on the right, staircase in the middle distance is *not* passenger access, as far as I'm aware)

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That said, I think we are traditionally poor (compared to other countries) at making trains visible and audible - it took many years before BR started fitting bright headlights, and there seems to be less use of warning horns today than there used to be. Contrast that with e.g. the US where - when a train is moving/about to move at low speed - bright low-level 'ditch' lights flash alternately, a v.loud bell sounds, and on some passenger trains high-level 'strobe' lights also flash - it's hard to ignore/not be aware of that lot.

 

[DarloRich]

is this just a list of stations with barrow crossings then? What, in particular, makes them dangerous?

 

[CaptainHaddock]

is this just a list of stations with barrow crossings then? What, in particular, makes them dangerous?

Trains run over them at quite fast speeds, apparently.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That said, I think we are traditionally poor (compared to other countries) at making trains visible and audible - it took many years before BR started fitting bright headlights, and there seems to be less use of warning horns today than there used to be. Contrast that with e.g. the US where - when a train is moving/about to move at low speed - bright low-level 'ditch' lights flash alternately, a v.loud bell sounds, and on some passenger trains high-level 'strobe' lights also flash - it's hard to ignore/not be aware of that lot.

But compare with DB and other European railways where usually only dim marker lights are used on many trains even today.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Dent (on the Settle & Carlisle) is the only one that springs to mind. From memory, the only access to/from the southbound platform is via a barrow crossing.

Ditto Ribblehead with a barrow crossing, where passengers arriving on a northbound train can cross in front of the train they just got off.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ditto Ribblehead with a barrow crossing, where passengers arriving on a northbound train can cross in front of the train they just got off.

That happens at Tywyn too.

 

[broadgage]

is this just a list of stations with barrow crossings then? What, in particular, makes them dangerous?

In some cases the risk is increased when a train stopped at the station restricts the view of a train coming the other way, another increased risk factor is when two trains call at the same time, or so near that minor delays have the same result.
This carries the risk that persons intending to board one train may be run over by the other one, or that those who just alighted could be run over by the other train.

Whilst this sounds dangerous and does carry some risk, we should remember that it is the norm on many overseas railways and that serious accidents are very rare.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Whilst this sounds dangerous and does carry some risk, we should remember that it is the norm on many overseas railways and that serious accidents are very rare.

Indeed. You're probably at less risk crossing the line at Tywyn (low speed single track railway, infrequent service, professional drivers paying attention) than you are the road outside it.

 

[ac6000cw]

is this just a list of stations with barrow crossings then? What, in particular, makes them dangerous?

Ask Network Rail?

The Network Rail risk assessment data for them is publicly available here - https://cdn.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Level-crossings-data-November-2017.xls - the Thurston example I gave is: Individual risk rating: D, Collective risk rating: 4. Tywyn Station is D2, for comparison. Lower letters/numbers = higher risk, range is A-M and 1-13.

From that NR spreadsheet:

Level crossing risk assessments produce two scores:

> One is for the ‘individual risk’ which applies only to crossing users. The score is presented as a letter ranging from A to M where A is the highest value and M is the lowest.

> The second score is for ‘collective risk’ which considers the total risk for all people who use the crossing, including: pedestrians, road vehicle drivers, train staff and passengers. The score is presented as a number ranging from 1 to 13 where 1 is the highest value and 13 is the lowest. This ‘collective risk’ score is the most important part when prioritising crossings.

> Crossings with a risk score of ‘M13’ have been assessed as having zero risk. They have no known usage and no scheduled reassessment regime. These crossings are reviewed periodically and the appropriate risk assessment regime instigated if required.

 

[ac6000cw]

Indeed. You're probably at less risk crossing the line at Tywyn (low speed single track railway, infrequent service, professional drivers paying attention) than you are the road outside it.

I agree, but it has a very high NR 'collective risk' assessment (level 2 out of 13, 1 is highest) for a 15 mph piece of railway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree, but it has a very high NR 'collective risk' assessment (level 2 out of 13, 1 is highest) for a 15 mph piece of railway.

That being the case, I'm surprised it hasn't been closed, as there is road access to both sides of the station. Walking round would take some time, but as it's not an interchange this is not needed.

I wonder why it's so high here? Is it because the other train might arrive while you're distracted by watching out for the one you've just got off?

 

[ac6000cw]

I wonder why it's so high here? Is it because the other train might arrive while you're distracted by watching out for the one you've just got off?

These are the 'Risk factors' listed on the NR spreadsheet for Tywyn Station crossing:

* Crossing is Near a Station
* Large Numbers of Users
* Sun Glare
* Deliberate Misuse or User Error

 

[GatwickDepress]

That said, I think we are traditionally poor (compared to other countries) at making trains visible and audible - it took many years before BR started fitting bright headlights, and there seems to be less use of warning horns today than there used to be. Contrast that with e.g. the US where - when a train is moving/about to move at low speed - bright low-level 'ditch' lights flash alternately, a v.loud bell sounds, and on some passenger trains high-level 'strobe' lights also flash - it's hard to ignore/not be aware of that lot.

I suspect America is somewhat of an anomaly due to the infrequency and relatively low speed of trains on most lines. The sheer size of their trains must help deceive a lot of people who misjudge the speed and ability for them to stop as well.
I certainly can't imagine the good citizens of Eastbourne appreciating every Class 377 screaming past the level crossing at Hampden Park with bells, strobe lights, and horns at all hours of the day!

 

[Jimini]

I'm on crutches at the moment so have to make sure I look / listen extra carefully when using Park Lane foot crossing in Waltham Cross at the moment. Not a particularly fast line speed (particularly southbound as Theobalds Grove is just round the corner) but the track curves in both directions not far from the crossing.

 

[CarltonA]

Metheringham had a barrow crossing as the only way to access one platform. When the nearby crossing gates began to open the driver would lean out of the cab to dissuade people from crossing. It may well have been modernised since. At the time of my visit there was a manned crossing box opposite. Photo credit: Geograph.

 

[LowLevel]

Metheringham had a barrow crossing as the only way to access one platform. When the nearby crossing gates began to open the driver would lean out of the cab to dissuade people from crossing. It may well have been modernised since. At the time of my visit there was a manned crossing box opposite. View attachment 43859 Photo credit: Geograph.

Replaced with an automated radar obstacle detector crossing a few years ago now. The box is still present but disused and the crossing closes long before the train reaches the platform.

 

[High Dyke]

Metheringham had a barrow crossing as the only way to access one platform. When the nearby crossing gates began to open the driver would lean out of the cab to dissuade people from crossing. It may well have been modernised since. At the time of my visit there was a manned crossing box opposite. View attachment 43859 Photo credit: Geograph.

Replaced with an automated radar obstacle detector crossing a few years ago now. The box is still present but disused and the crossing closes long before the train reaches the platform.

Part of the re-signalling saw the barrow crossing removed and diverted by a new access, outside the railway boundary, which is like many other stations where the level crossings have been upgraded to a full barrier type. If you haven't got onto the platform by the time the crossing lowers for a train - then you've missed it.

Following an incident some years ago at Thorne North when a member of public walked out from behind the train she'd just alighted from and got struck by a train passing in the opposite direction the method of working locations where that was likely to occur was altered for signal(wo)men, certainly on the LNE area. Basically if a train has stopped in a station no train is allowed to pass in the opposite direction.

 

[Revilo]

Roche on the Newquay branch is another with a barrow crossing

 

[HLE]

I wonder if it would be possible for another train to run wrong way to overtake getting onto a single track section and surprise someone.

I doubt that. With wrong direction working it’s blow the high & low tone continuously whilst making the move

 

[randyrippley]

I don't know if its still there, but in the 1980's the barrow crossing at Gillingham, Dorset station doubled as a public footpath - which meant the station gates could never be closed - nor could the crossing. Had a tragic consequence one day when one chap walked out in front of a class 50 as it drew into the platform.
Gillingham is a passing loop, though that wasn't a factor that day: only a up train coming into the station

edit
I see from online photos that the crossing has been blocked off, and the footpath entrance to the station gated
before https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Gillingham_(Dorset)_station_(September_1993).JPG
after http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/01/85/71/1857154_d2c16b18.jpg

 

[ac6000cw]

I suspect America is somewhat of an anomaly due to the infrequency and relatively low speed of trains on most lines. The sheer size of their trains must help deceive a lot of people who misjudge the speed and ability for them to stop as well.

I don't think so - they just decide they know better and chance their arm to get across the tracks (like some people do all over the world)...

I certainly can't imagine the good citizens of Eastbourne appreciating every Class 377 screaming past the level crossing at Hampden Park with bells, strobe lights, and horns at all hours of the day!

The bells and flashing/strobe lights are mostly used when trains are about to start moving (or moving slowly) or are running into a station. For ordinary crossings it's usually just the horns and non-flashing head/ditch lights that provide the warning (but the standard double headlight at roof level plus low-level 'ditch' lights - each one a 300W halogen lamp or LED equivalent - are very visible from a distance). Also if a train is stationary the head/ditch lights are normally dimmed, so it's easy to tell if it's about to move - lights go to full brightness, then ditch lights start to flash and the bell sounds, sometimes accompanied by a toot on the horn.

 

[Ianno87]

Littleport - the only access to the Up platform is via a Barrow crossing.

Even with the Red/Green lights provided, only takes a moment of absent mindedness for a passengee running for an Up train to run out in front of a Down train.

Luckily:
-Almost everything stops at Littleport anyway (so Down trains can see the crossimg before setting off)
-Even so, a train in the Up platform will only just have come off the single line from Dowmham Market, so a Down train is unlikely to be on clear signals