Trivia:Services that are yet to return to pre-coivd levels

[thenorthern]

Earlier to day I was discussing services that haven't returned to the levels they were at before covid. Some of the ones we thought of were Crewe-Newark Castle which has a lot of 2 hour gaps. Newcastle-Reading/Southampton. Most Manchester-Bristol services. 2 of the Cross-City Line trains each hour.

Can anyone think of any more?

Also do the railways have a date when they expect trains to return to pre-covid service levels?

 

[JonathanH]

Also do the railways have a date when they expect trains to return to pre-covid service levels?

Don't get your hopes up. The current frequencies are generally regarded to be as good as it will get.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Probably easier to create a thread entitled "Services that have returned to pre-COVID levels!"

 

[thenorthern]

Probably easier to create a thread entitled "Services that have returned to pre-COVID levels!"

It's very a postcode lottery, in Tyne and Wear for example the local services are largely back to normal and in many cases better than pre-covid services. In the East Midlands though it's a very different story.

 

[bramling]

Earlier to day I was discussing services that haven't returned to the levels they were at before covid. Some of the ones we thought of were Crewe-Newark Castle which has a lot of 2 hour gaps. Newcastle-Reading/Southampton. Most Manchester-Bristol services. 2 of the Cross-City Line trains each hour.

Can anyone think of any more?

Also do the railways have a date when they expect trains to return to pre-covid service levels?

On GN:
* 6 morning peak Baldock to King’s Cross, 6 evening peak and 3 late evening King’s Cross to Baldock services are missing
* All the Peterborough peak and evening extras are missing with the exception of 3 up and 3 down services
* Moorgate to Hertford North and Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City are both 2tph off-peak and evening instead of 4tph
* The King’s Cross to Cambridge stopping service is hourly north of Letchworth at off-peak times, and hourly in entirety in the evening

How much of this will ever return is open to debate.

 

[Peter0124]

Cathcart Circle
Gourock/Ayr
Shotts

 

[Magdalia]

Earlier to day I was discussing services that haven't returned to the levels they were at before covid.

Stansted Airport.

The Stansted Express to/from Liverpool Street required 9 units for the pre covid 15 minute interval service. The current service requires 5 units giving a 30 minute interval service apart from one 15 minute gap in each cycle.

The Cross Country service from Birmingham still has various trains terminating/starting Cambridge and not running through to/from Stansted Airport.

There are still a few peak time trains missing on the Liverpool Street-Cambridge route too, especially the trains from/to Kings Lynn where there is a token one train in each direction.

 

[Falcon1200]

Gourock/Ayr

Ayr is a particularly good (or rather, bad) example; With the withdrawal of most of the fast (non stop between Glasgow and Kilwinning) services, the remaining Ayr trains are the every lamp post stoppers between Paisley and Ayr, giving stations between Kilwinning and Ayr their worst service since before electrification!

More Scottish examples;
Glasgow Central/Kilmarnock; Half of these trains now double up as Central/Barrhead all stations stoppers, meaning that they are a) slow, and b) departures from Central are at xx13 and xx27, not every half hour as before.
Glasgow Queen St High Level/Anniesland, still only hourly outside the peaks.

 

[30907]

Huddersfield-Castleford.
Numerous SN/SW suburban routes, E and W Coastways
SE lines operating at offpeak frequencies all day with some peak extras (and offpeak itself is reduced in some cases; HS1 to North Kent only hourly).

 

[sammyg901]

Chiltern Railways- not a simple answer as the service pattern varied almost by hour but fewer trains and those that remain stopping additionally.















Biggest loss for me is the 0735 68 hauled Bicester Village service to Marylebone in 45mins. It's now t1he 800

 

[MikeWM]

On GN:
* 6 morning peak Baldock to King’s Cross, 6 evening peak and 3 late evening King’s Cross to Baldock services are missing
* All the Peterborough peak and evening extras are missing with the exception of 3 up and 3 down services
* Moorgate to Hertford North and Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City are both 2tph off-peak and evening instead of 4tph
* The King’s Cross to Cambridge stopping service is hourly north of Letchworth at off-peak times, and hourly in entirety in the evening

How much of this will ever return is open to debate.

...plus Kings Lynn is missing two morning trains; the current 0845 and 0947 Ely-Kings Cross both started back there before Covid (and from May 2020 were planned to have carriages starting both at Lynn and at Ely, joining at Cambridge).

I'm surprised there isn't more complaining about the 8am one, that was always really busy on arrival at Ely, to the extent it was often difficult to get on back when these trains were 4 carriages. The 9am one was only extended back to Lynn in 2018 or thereabouts, previously it started at Ely, so that probably matters less. (and I'm not complaining about the latter from Ely as it is my usual commuting train - or at least it is when GN bother to run it).

 

[dk1]

Stansted Airport.

The Stansted Express to/from Liverpool Street required 9 units for the pre covid 15 minute interval service. The current service requires 5 units giving a 30 minute interval service apart from one 15 minute gap in each cycle.

The Cross Country service from Birmingham still has various trains terminating/starting Cambridge and not running through to/from Stansted Airport.

There are still a few peak time trains missing on the Liverpool Street-Cambridge route too, especially the trains from/to Kings Lynn where there is a token one train in each direction.

Hopefully the first will return to a full 4tph frequency in May. Anything is possible with XC & there where rumours of GA pulling out of any WA services North of Ely.

 

[Bletchleyite]

LNR. However pre-COVID was the disastrous through Liverpool timetable which they were right to abandon.

The new Dec 2022 timetable may be slightly less frequent through to Birmingham, but is better structured and more resilient, and hardly any 4 car working too. Definitely an improvement, though I suspect they may need to extend one or two specific weekday trains to 12-car to avoid overcrowding.

 

[PTR 444]

Hourly Cross Country services to Bournemouth (currently they are only 2-hourly).
SWR Southampton - Bournemouth stopping services extending to Poole (although aren’t these being reinstated for the Dec 22 timetable change?)

 

[Bishopstone]

All peak workings between Eastbourne and London Bridge
Lewes-Brighton shuttles (2 tph), except in the peak
West Worthing - Brighton stopping service (was 2 tph)
East Grinstead - Victoria remains at 1tph between the peaks (was 2tph), though it’s twice an hour throughout the weekend.
Seaford-Victoria direct trains - was one, with flow, in each peak

 

[JonathanH]

LNR. However pre-COVID was the disastrous through Liverpool timetable which they were right to abandon.

The new Dec 2022 timetable may be slightly less frequent through to Birmingham, but is better structured and more resilient, and hardly any 4 car working too. Definitely an improvement, though I suspect they may need to extend one or two specific weekday trains to 12-car to avoid overcrowding.

Indeed, running longer trains less frequently is definitely working for LNR.

I don't think anyone anticipates or is asking for 'missing services' to return there and people are instead getting used to the new simplified timetable.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Dorking has gone from

2tph to London Victoria, fast from Sutton
2tph to London Waterloo
to

2tph to London Victoria, stopping from Sutton
1tph to London Waterloo

similarly

Leatherhead has gone from

2tph to London Victoria, fast from Sutton
4tph to London Waterloo
2tph to Guildford
Additional trains to London Bridge and Guildford in peak

2tph to London Victoria, stopping from Sutton
2tph to London Waterloo
1tph to Guildford

S-T

Edit: I should also add this is now permanent too.

 

[route101]

Cross Country services to Glasgow, only 3 run daily.
Scotrail services on the East Kilbride branch , now hourly.

 

[paul1609]

All peak workings between Eastbourne and London Bridge
Lewes-Brighton shuttles (2 tph), except in the peak
West Worthing - Brighton stopping service (was 2 tph)
East Grinstead - Victoria remains at 1tph between the peaks (was 2tph), though it’s twice an hour throughout the weekend.
Seaford-Victoria direct trains - was one, with flow, in each peak

Rye to Ashford Int Peak Shuttles
Littlehampton to london bridge peaks (TL)
Portsmouth/ Bognor to London Bridge Peaks
GWR Brighton to Cardiff Services.

 

[DanNCL]

in Tyne and Wear for example the local services are largely back to normal and in many cases better than pre-covid services

I'm not sure what improvements you're thinking of? If you're thinking of 2tph to Carlisle that happened in 2019. Nothing else in the North East has had a frequency boost for many years.

 

[ChrisC]

It's very a postcode lottery, in Tyne and Wear for example the local services are largely back to normal and in many cases better than pre-covid services. In the East Midlands though it's a very different story.

East Midlands again. Except for a couple of peak time extras now only an hourly service on the Robin Hood Line from Nottingham to Mansfield and Worksop. The Nottingham to Mansfield Woodhouse trains have not returned throughout the day resulting in only 1tph instead of 2tph between Nottingham and Mansfield.

 

[dk1]

On my side of GA (SX) we are still missing :-

Norwich-Liverpool St - 06:48, 08:00 & 09:00
Liverpool St-Norwich - 18:10 & 19:00
Ipswich-Norwich 18:00

Norwich-Gt.Yarmouth 08:09 & 18:04
Gt.Yarmouth-Norwich 08:45 & 18:47

 

[thenorthern]

I'm not sure what improvements you're thinking of? If you're thinking of 2tph to Carlisle that happened in 2019. Nothing else in the North East has had a frequency boost for many years.

You are right I made a mistake it was 2019.

East Midlands again. Except for a couple of peak time extras now only an hourly service on the Robin Hood Line from Nottingham to Mansfield and Worksop. The Nottingham to Mansfield Woodhouse trains have not returned throughout the day resulting in only 1tph instead of 2tph between Nottingham and Mansfield.

East Midlands always seems to be the least important part of the railway network.

 

[Kite159]

Hopefully the first will return to a full 4tph frequency in May. Anything is possible with XC & there where rumours of GA pulling out of any WA services North of Ely.

I can see GA pulling out of Ely - Kings Lynn to save on costs of keeping drivers trained for the one service a day. Maybe if the DfT thinks there is a need for an extra Kings Lynn train between 19:56 & 20:56 GN [especially as GN are now 8 coaches] they can always instruct GTR to extend the 20:26 arrival into Ely.

---

As for EMR, I dread to think how bad the overcrowding has been on the Worksop - Nottingham trains on Saturdays, especially last Saturday with the kickball

 

[Mojo]

The local Northern Trains stopping service from Doncaster to Scunthorpe it was planned to return last December and lasted about a week before the Omicon-related suspension. It has only just returned with the timetable change on the weekend but every 2 hours instead of hourly as before.

 

[dk1]

I can see GA pulling out of Ely - Kings Lynn to save on costs of keeping drivers trained for the one service a day. Maybe if the DfT thinks there is a need for an extra Kings Lynn train between 19:56 & 20:56 GN [especially as GN are now 8 coaches] they can always instruct GTR to extend the 20:26 arrival into Ely.

To be fair, the route has been hanging on by a thread for years. I’ve often thought over the years that the paths would be better used by trains from Kings Cross which had far heavier loadings to those from Liverpool St. It can only be a matter of time now to tidy things up concession wise.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, running longer trains less frequently is definitely working for LNR.

I don't think anyone anticipates or is asking for 'missing services' to return there and people are instead getting used to the new simplified timetable.

Bletchley has lost an "at your desk by 0800" fast which results in people needing that getting up an hour earlier, but it'll affect few and isn't really avoidable because it's got a Crewe on its tail at a 2 track time of day. I think it's the only Birmingham service that doesn't stop. But you can't, as the phrase goes, make an omelette without breaking eggs, and the vast majority of the rest of it is a significant upgrade for us, no doubt taking into account the coming of EWR.

 

[JD2168]

Sheffield to Doncaster stoppers.
2nd Train per hour Sheffield to Gainsborough enabling the Lincoln train to be limited stop from Sheffield to Worksop.
Sheffield to York via Pontefract.

 

[ChrisC]

As for EMR, I dread to think how bad the overcrowding has been on the Worksop - Nottingham trains on Saturdays, especially last Saturday with the kickball

Saturday afternoons were always overcrowded when there were 2tph. Still better to have 2 carriage trains twice an hour than the current 3 carriage train once an hour. There has been lots of occasions when passengers have been left behind on Saturdays and I know the Stagecoach Pronto bus has been doing well. They have been running a duplicate bus at 2210 from Nottingham to Mansfield on recent Saturday nights.

I think passenger numbers are probably well down throughout the week with only 1tph and I’m not convinced the missing trains will ever return. Connections at Nottingham to lots of destinations are now not good. Northern not returning the Sheffield to Gainsborough Central service means connections at Worksop remain poor. The previous 2tph south of Mansfield was a quick convenient route to Nottingham but 1tph with longer journey times doesn’t compete so well with both the buses and the trams.

 

[scrapy]

Buxton to Manchester Picc (1tph instead of 2tph)
Liverpool to Warrington Bank Quay (not been reinstated)
Stalybridge to Manchester Vic (1tph instead of 2tph)
Morecambe to Lancaster (some gaps that didn't previously exist)
Wigan to Manchester via Atherton (2tph, was 3tph pre covid)