Tube Strike

[357]

I think the RMT need to be pretty careful they're not seen by what I regard as probably the furthest-right British government of my lifetime, as a target; a new National Union of Mineworkers that they want to smash for political reasons.

Ordinary union members and their communities suffered greatly while Arthur Scargill & Thatcher fought their political war.

When I was working on stations I was in the RMT, and they aren't as strong outside LUL as people think they are.

The only time I have been balloted for strike action was related to Olympic bonuses in 2012, and many people left the union when the vote went yes.

There are many more scabs and people who float in and out of the RMT than there were in the mines.

I think TfL would love to destroy the RMT, but on the mainline for the large part the management don't seem bothered.

 

[Mojo]

I think the RMT need to be pretty careful they're not seen by what I regard as probably the furthest-right British government of my lifetime, as a target; a new National Union of Mineworkers that they want to smash for political reasons.

Ordinary union members and their communities suffered greatly while Arthur Scargill & Thatcher fought their political war.

On the other hand, I think the Government are quite happy as it shows up Khan and in particular his statement to have zero days of tube strikes.

Outside of the Underground, on the mainline, RMT doesn’t seem nearly as powerful and probably isn’t much of a danger to HM Gov.

 

[Goldfish62]

I think the RMT need to be pretty careful they're not seen by what I regard as probably the furthest-right British government of my lifetime, as a target; a new National Union of Mineworkers that they want to smash for political reasons.

Ordinary union members and their communities suffered greatly while Arthur Scargill & Thatcher fought their political war.

The RMT appears to be more militant now than it ever has been.

It's down to the members. If they don't want to constantly strike then they need to vote against action in ballots. It's in their hands.

By the way, I agree with your views about the current government.

 

[greyman42]

There are many more scabs and people who float in and out of the RMT than there were in the mines.

How do you define a "scab" nowadays?

 

[philthetube]

Most of the modern stock has remote diagnostics now. And no tube driver is gonna be fixing faults in the tunnel. Nice try old bean

So who gets the train moving when it is stuck in a tunnel? maybe you, you seem to know more than drivers do

you are correct in that they will not normally be fixing faults, they will be using work rounds using alternative systems to get the train moving. All underground stock are effectively two trains coupled together back to back and the driver has to know what to cut in and out on the train to get it moving

I think your knowledge of train driving, and even trains in general, might be rather lacking.

Every tube train I've ever been involved with, and every mainline train I've ever driven, have various isolating cocks on the inside of the train for that very reason. The train could be in a tunnel, in a platform, on a viaduct, in a location where the adjacent line can't be blocked (mainline parallel running with LU) or many more reasons.

Ever wondered what the seemingly random letter stickers above some seats on the tube are? They are abbreviations of the isolating cocks below the seat. The seat opens with a J door key.

On the mainline, the one you're most likely to see inside the train is a BSRIC (could have a slightly different name on other stocks) as there is one in each coach, however there are more in body end cupboards.

On occasions it is necessary to isolate cocks on the underground trains, isolate the wrong ones or too many of them and you have a runaway. Hence the need for training and knowledge.

 

[endicomark69@g]

To the Driver "thinking" out loud that his pay may be a bit much "considering" ........you must be a popular bloke at your Depot mate. Or just very, very quiet.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Every week I get an email from TfL on engineering works over the weekend. It mentions the strikes as well and there's a question I've been wanting to ask for ages. Here's a quote from the email:

There is planned strike action every Friday and Saturday night between 20:30 and 04:29 the following morning until Sunday 19 June.

If these strikes go ahead, normal services are expected on the Victoria line, while we expect the Central line to run a regular service through central London, with at least two trains per hour.

So according to TfL, a regular service on the Central Line is defined as at least 2 tph?

 

[Lewlew]

Every week I get an email from TfL on engineering works over the weekend. It mentions the strikes as well and there's a question I've been wanting to ask for ages. Here's a quote from the email:



So according to TfL, a regular service on the Central Line is defined as at least 2 tph?

Only during Night Tube

 

[bluegoblin7]

So according to TfL, a regular service on the Central Line is defined as at least 2 tph?

regular /ˈrɛɡjʊlə/, adj.: recurring at uniform intervals.

2tph may not be a frequent service, but it is a regular one.

 

[XAM2175]

So according to TfL, a regular service on the Central Line is defined as at least 2 tph?

2tph may not be a frequent service, but it is a regular one.

True, but I can understand people interpreting "regular" as meaning "normal" in this context.

 

[Horizon22]

regular /ˈrɛɡjʊlə/, adj.: recurring at uniform intervals.

2tph may not be a frequent service, but it is a regular one.

Can also mean "happening or doing something often" and also "usual or ordinary" In a rail / public transport context, that is what it is generally referred to when discussions are made about a "normal" service; your average punter will think "regular" service means at a normal level of frequency.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Thanks for all your replies. Yes, I think the average person would think "regular" is "normal", that's why I decided to ask here.

I did think of "regular" as in the definition provided by "bluegoblin7", but the email said

at least two trains per hour

My guess is that a train every 30min is confirmed. If drivers are available, they might slot more trains between the confirmed ones. So that probably isn't "regular" as defined by "bluegoblin7".

I think the email is poorly worded. They could have said, "If these strikes go ahead, the Central line will have at least two trains per hour during night tube."


While we're on the topic, if we look at the quote from TfL's email again:

There is planned strike action every Friday and Saturday night between 20:30 and 04:29 the following morning until Sunday 19 June.

If these strikes go ahead, normal services are expected on the Victoria line, while we expect the Central line to run a regular service through central London, with at least two trains per hour.

From my understanding of the bolded part, the Victoria line is unaffected by the strikes? Or does it mean something else?

 

[Dstock7080]

While we're on the topic, if we look at the quote from TfL's email again:

From my understanding of the bolded part, the Victoria line is unaffected by the strikes? Or does it mean something else?

The Victoria Line has been affected by the overnight action but to a lesser extent and a regular service, sometimes just using 7 trains provided.

 

[endicomark69@g]

The Night Tube even in normal operation (almost hard to think that far back) usually only had a 4TPH service on most lines, so every 15 was the best you used to get on the Northern going South (with the Bank Branch usually closed) so it's never been comparable to daytime service levels.

The current strike just makes it even less predictable on the Two that are still running. Personal experience recently with trying to get the Vic down to Stockwell wasn't pleasant.

 

[Mojo]

The Night Tube even in normal operation (almost hard to think that far back) usually only had a 4TPH service on most lines, so every 15 was the best you used to get on the Northern going South (with the Bank Branch usually closed) so it's never been comparable to daytime service levels.

Most lines were actually 6tph, the exceptions being White City - Ealing Bdy 3tph and Leytonstone - Hainault/Loughton 3tph (combining to bring a 6tph through the central section). The Northern line ran 4tph from both Edgware and High Barnet, combining to provide 8tph Camden Tw - Morden via the West End.

 

[westv]

The RMT appears to be more militant now than it ever has been.

It's down to the members. If they don't want to constantly strike then they need to vote against action in ballots. It's in their hands.

By the way, I agree with your views about the current government.

Does the RMT actually do anything other than call for strikes now?

 

[Mawkie]

The re-ballot result for the continuing Night Tube dispute was announced today. The mandate for strike action (and action short of a strike) has been renewed.

 

[Mawkie]

The latest rosters have been published by TfL in time for the disputed NT introduction.

Inexplicably, there is night tube duties on the early turn roster. So in reality that means 22 weeks of waking up at 0330hrs to get to work, except one weekend where you won't be going to bed at 1900hrs as usual - you'll be preparing to go to work!

Putting my obvious bias aside, how is this a safe way of operating a train?

 

[Dstock7080]

The latest rosters have been published by TfL in time for the disputed NT introduction.

Inexplicably, there is night tube duties on the early turn roster.

Nights have always been regarded as "early shift".
one Rest Day before and two Rest Days after.

 

[Mawkie]

With the impending start up of NT on the Piccadilly Line, the mess rooms have been awash with gossip. One duty that caught my eye was this duty - where you pick up your first train 21 minutes into your rest day.

 

[357]

With the impending start up of NT on the Piccadilly Line, the mess rooms have been awash with gossip. One duty that caught my eye was this duty - where you pick up your first train 21 minutes into your rest day.

Christ.

What are sign on and walking times at Acton Town? Have they added extra minutes just to make the sign on one minute into the day before?

 

[Mojo]

Christ.

What are sign on and walking times at Acton Town? Have they added extra minutes just to make the sign on one minute into the day before?

7 minute book-on time as standard across the combine, an additional 5 minutes as part of the agreement when the “Super depots” (Acton Town and Arnos Grove) were opened on the line, then walking time which is 5 minutes to the Westbound and 4 minutes to the eastbound. So in this example you would expect 17 minutes.

I would add that this is nothing unusual, well before Night Tube I remember we had a night duty, cannot remember whether it was a Saturday or a Sunday night, that was well over an hour before you picked up a train.

 

[357]

7 minute book-on time as standard across the combine, an additional 5 minutes as part of the agreement when the “Super depots” (Acton Town and Arnos Grove) were opened on the line, then walking time which is 5 minutes to the Westbound and 4 minutes to the eastbound. So in this example you would expect 17 minutes.

I would add that this is nothing unusual, well before Night Tube I remember we had a night duty, cannot remember whether it was a Saturday or a Sunday night, that was well over an hour before you picked up a train.

Thanks for the info.

It's a crap job, that this has been going on for some time doesn't make it right, but I guess the union will look at it and decide if it's worth changing

 

[Mojo]

Thanks for the info.

It's a crap job, that this has been going on for some time doesn't make it right, but I guess the union will look at it and decide if it's worth changing

I might be missing something, but what exactly is the problem here?

 

[357]

I might be missing something, but what exactly is the problem here?

Personally, my problem is the "But technically that's legal!" rostering that is its own pandemic across the transportation industry

The shift in itself isn't the worst, but the fact that it signs on and then has all the work content on a "rest day" is a bit of a liberty.

Especially depending on the work content before/afterwards

 

[Mojo]

Personally, my problem is the "But technically that's legal!" rostering that is its own pandemic across the transportation industry

The shift in itself isn't the worst, but the fact that it signs on and then has all the work content on a "rest day" is a bit of a liberty.

Especially depending on the work content before/afterwards

Every night shift involves the majority of the work being on a rest day though, if you consider the day to start at midnight.

 

[Dstock7080]

Especially depending on the work content before/afterwards

Friday shift is preceded by 5 rest days, 23.22 until 07.50 Saturday.
Saturday 656 is followed by 5 rest days.

 

[357]

Friday shift is preceded by 5 rest days, 23.22 until 07.50 Saturday.
Saturday 656 is followed by 5 rest days.

That's not so bad as some other rosters I've seen on the mainline to be fair.

I've seen one where the one "rest day" (that you work until 8am) is followed by 9 early shifts

 

[Mawkie]

Especially depending on the work content before/afterwards

That duty above is part of the 'Heritage' NT roster - so just p/t Friday and Saturday working.

Some of the NT duties are now stuffed into the mixed link roster at Arnos Grove (early, middle, late). One NT duty at Arnos finishes at 0526 on Sunday morning, the Sunday is your rest day, then back in on Monday for five late turns, resting on the following Saturday.

There are more talks at ACAS tomorrow (Friday 15th July) regarding NT, so let's hope RMT and LU find some middle ground somewhere.

 

[choochoochoo]

With the impending start up of NT on the Piccadilly Line, the mess rooms have been awash with gossip. One duty that caught my eye was this duty - where you pick up your first train 21 minutes into your rest day.

When is Piccadilly line due to restart night tube ?