Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

[MetroCar4058]

I'm going to rephrase my comment as it seems a bit unfair to say the depot team, who I assume work hard. My point is that DB have starved the maintenance of suitable finance for the age of the stock, something they knew about when they signed up.

All of the issues I described are maintenance issues aggravated with age. We can't complain as the Picidilly line is in a similar position to us and has less spare stock, yet they run a good service for the most part due to good management of maintenance regimes.

I thought all units have had the fix fitted to them? All of the units I have been on have got a little tick and a plastic tie on the handle which I thought meant they had been modified.

With the coming of thage NE Mayor, we may not see the Metro in the private hands again, thankfully.

 

[ModernRailways]

Also regarding the subject of 4001, I'm sure its more than fit enough for service, a lot of the issues seems to be minor issues which can be fixed and the doors on the prototypes are always vulnable to breaking it seems. Would like too see 4001 and the other 3 unrefurbished units to be repainted and perhaps given some sort of refresh but I highly doubt that will happen though.

I have to completely disagree with you. 4001 is being pushed into service when it shouldn't be. It fails regularly, and almost always has a set of doors out of service. As you say, most of the issues that arise are patched up and it's sent straight back out because it's needed, it will fail again but it's plugged a gap for the time being.

I can't see anything being done to the unrefurbished cars. They'll likely be given a deep clean and that will be it.
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I'm going to rephrase my comment as it seems a bit unfair to say the depot team, who I assume work hard. My point is that DB have starved the maintenance of suitable finance for the age of the stock, something they knew about when they signed up.

All of the issues I described are maintenance issues aggravated with age. We can't complain as the Picidilly line is in a similar position to us and has less spare stock, yet they run a good service for the most part due to good management of maintenance regimes.

I thought all units have had the fix fitted to them? All of the units I have been on have got a little tick and a plastic tie on the handle which I thought meant they had been modified.

With the coming of thage NE Mayor, we may not see the Metro in the private hands again, thankfully.

As far as I know, the ones with a ziptie have been marked as tested. The trains in service may have one set of doors not working, but I believe it's got to be 12 feet to the next one and as it's less than 12 ft they can still run that train

 

[MetroCar4058]

I have to completely disagree with you. 4001 is being pushed into service when it shouldn't be. It fails regularly, and almost always has a set of doors out of service. As you say, most of the issues that arise are patched up and it's sent straight back out because it's needed, it will fail again but it's plugged a gap for the time being.

It would help if they put some new bulbs in! Many of them are out.

Its good to see that there has been some progress made this evening with some peak services running and a provisional service being guaranteed.

 

[ModernRailways]

It would help if they put some new bulbs in! Many of them are out.

Its good to see that there has been some progress made this evening with some peak services running and a provisional service being guaranteed.

Same can be said for a lot of the units. Almost every train I've been on as had at least one light strip out.


Ah, now you see. It worked. All they did was change the wording of their status' on FB/Twitter, nothing more, there weren't suddenly more trains, they just changed the wording from

Trains are running to all destinations, but may be busier than normal due to some peak services being cancelled between Pelaw and Monkseaton/Regent Centre, due to a shortage of available trains. We're sorry for any inconvenience this may cause.

to

Trains are running to all destinations. Some services between Pelaw and Monkseaton/Regent Centre may not operate as timetabled, due to a shortage of available trains. A frequent service is running in this area with trains running every three to six minutes between Pelaw and South Gosforth and every six to 12 minutes between South Gosforth and Monkseaton. In all other areas trains are running every 12 minutes.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Was there not a few more out there? I knew that there were a few still running as I see them out and about in the mornings.

 

[142094]

5 shorts cancelled yesterday morning and evening, then 135 and 125 failed late on.
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It isn't going to get any better under Nexus as it will be the same rolling stock and 99% of the same staff. What you'll find is that there will be a timetable change so that extra time is given for running (i.e. padding) with less turnaround times at termini stations but magically performance will improve. For example, on a night time there is a 19 minute wait at the Airport, 15 at St James, 10 at South Hylton and 6/7 at South Shields. I bet this changes when Nexus takes over.

 

[danpick]

4001/40 are out again this time on 101 (2I01)

 

[Scott M]

Thar she blows!

She getting rolled out in full service now rather than just the shorts? Could do with a new lick of paint!

 

[MetroCar4058]

I was on 4001 again a couple of days ago and she had been in for some maintenance; working perfectly fine. To be honest I see no issue with having the unrefurbished units running as long as they are maintained, which 4001 clearly had been.

I agree, the unit could do with some paint, it's all flaking away, as is also the case with 4002.

 

[Scott M]

To be honest I see no issue with having the unrefurbished units running as long as they are maintained.

I agree. I like having the old units around because it adds some character to the system.

 

[142094]

Stripping down and repainting 4001 would take a while, plus the depot do not have enough trains to run for the normal weekday service, so it isn't a priority.

 

[Scott M]

Stripping down and repainting 4001 would take a while, plus the depot do not have enough trains to run for the normal weekday service, so it isn't a priority.

Do you drivers feel gutted or happy when you get assigned to 4001? Or is it inconsequential to you guys as she drives the same.

 

[danielnez1]

Throwing it out there, is it true that 4001/2 aren’t as well built as the production units? It would kind of make sense to me since they were the prototypes, were stored for a good number of years before being modified for service and were excluded from the second refurb.

 

[142094]

I don't particularly mind 4001/02 but both are well known for door faults so can be a pain. The added bonus is the door tones button which can speed things up on the platform during rush hour.
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Very few of the components are different between 4001/02 and the rest of the fleet apart from the doors. Build quality will be just about the same, however as they have not had the corrosion treatment the bodyside panelwork will start to show its age in the coming years.

 

[Scott M]

I don't particularly mind 4001/02 but both are well known for door faults so can be a pain. The added bonus is the door tones button which can speed things up on the platform during rush hour.

I am surprised they didn't implement that feature into the refurbs - maybe people didn't realise how handy it was until it was gone.
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Downloaded Google Earth recently and was having a play with it, and I was surprised to see how close simonside and brockley whins stations are.

There is actually a link between Tyne dock and brockley whins: there is a disused line which starts from Tyne dock, that connects to the freight line above the tunnel between Tyne dock and simonside, which in turn connects to the metro line near brockley whins as visible in the picture.

If metro were planning on electrifying a line, I say this would be a better option than (arguably pointlessly) making the sections between bede and pelaw dual track. It would be nice to have a direct link between South Shields and Sunderland. I am sure they have probably cottened onto this before me and looked into it, perhaps the demand and/or the facilities e.g. rolling stock and timetable space isn't there.

NB:

•Top left M symbol = Brockley whins
•Bottom right M symbol = Simonside

 

[MetroCar4058]

This proposal is part of the strategic Metro review for stage 3 of the all change programme. Although I must argue that doubling of the line between Pelaw and Bede, in my opinion would be a higher priority, especially now that the track bed is free for development. This would allow for peak services to be extended to Bede if required, would help greatly with GNE and in general would remove many timetable headaches, be they the actual timings or delayed stock.

 

[Scott M]

This proposal is part of the strategic Metro review for stage 3 of the all change programme. Although I must argue that doubling of the line between Pelaw and Bede, in my opinion would be a higher priority, especially now that the track bed is free for development. This would allow for peak services to be extended to Bede if required, would help greatly with GNE and in general would remove many timetable headaches, be they the actual timings or delayed stock.

Haha, had a feeling they would have noticed it!

And you make a fair point, although, in terms of extending the shorts, as someone who frequently travels rush hour between Newcastle and South Shields, I wouldn't say the trains are packed to breaking point between Pelaw and bede, in fact it usually empties to the point of getting a seat at Hebburn.

I was out and about on my bike again today, and ever wanting to try out new routes I decided to time the distance between simonside and brockley whins. So, armed with only that Google Earth map, it only took me 5 minutes! So yeah I'm now debating whether, if travelling to Sunderland on the metro from South Shields, it may actually be quicker to walk between simonside and brockley whins, weather permitting of course.

 

[ModernRailways]

This proposal is part of the strategic Metro review for stage 3 of the all change programme. Although I must argue that doubling of the line between Pelaw and Bede, in my opinion would be a higher priority, especially now that the track bed is free for development. This would allow for peak services to be extended to Bede if required, would help greatly with GNE and in general would remove many timetable headaches, be they the actual timings or delayed stock.

The line between Pelaw and Jarrow Oil Terminal that was mothballed by Network Rail is back in action. Jarrow fuel terminal has a service again from what I've heard so that is out of the question for now.

 

[MetroCar4058]

The line between Pelaw and Jarrow Oil Terminal that was mothballed by Network Rail is back in action. Jarrow fuel terminal has a service again from what I've heard so that is out of the question for now.

Live to acquire that line another day! Does anyone know how strict Metro are in fining troublesome passengers? A silly child decided to press the emergency brake and cause a delay to service. Due to the school uniform, making it extremely to find the child. Would Nexus go on to find and fine?
I must admit, I thought the emergency braking had a bit more clought than it gave! I thought the magnetics would have dropped for maximum deceleration.

 

[Scott M]

Live to acquire that line another day! Does anyone know how strict Metro are in fining troublesome passengers? A silly child decided to press the emergency brake and cause a delay to service. Due to the school uniform, making it extremely to find the child. Would Nexus go on to find and fine?
I must admit, I thought the emergency braking had a bit more clought than it gave! I thought the magnetics would have dropped for maximum deceleration.

Nah my friend did this for a laugh once when he was in school and nothing happened. Probably cost them more in staff effort to find the culprit than to just move on. Wouldn't cause a notable delay and it's just kids being kids.

The prospect of a fine is more there as a deterrent than anything else, I believe.

Obviously a repeat offender would be a different matter.

Edit: just to make it clear, I am not condoning it in any way!

 

[MetroCar4058]

Nah my friend did this for a laugh once when he was in school and nothing happened. Probably cost them more in staff effort to find the culprit than to just move on. Wouldn't cause a notable delay and it's just kids being kids.

The prospect of a fine is more there as a deterrent than anything else, I believe.

Obviously a repeat offender would be a different matter.

Edit: just to make it clear, I am not condoning it in any way!

To be honest, I totally disagree with your point of view and it is never, ever a laugh. A 10 minute delay to service influences the punctuality statistics and can have a severe impact on the service elsewhere, most specifically along the central belt, Shields line and down to South Hylton.

The idea of a fine is clearly not enough if a person then commits the crime, shocking.
I'm not getting at you here, but we have a totally different viewpoint on how people should behave on public transport, if you are old enough to travel without your mother, you should respect in a forthcoming and respectable manor, although this brings us onto the topic of many, many other metro passengers

 

[Scott M]

To be honest, I totally disagree with your point of view and it is never, ever a laugh. A 10 minute delay to service influences the punctuality statistics and can have a severe impact on the service elsewhere, most specifically along the central belt, Shields line and down to South Hylton.

The idea of a fine is clearly not enough if a person then commits the crime, shocking.
I'm not getting at you here, but we have a totally different viewpoint on how people should behave on public transport, if you are old enough to travel without your mother, you should respect in a forthcoming and respectable manor, although this brings us onto the topic of many, many other metro passengers

Sorry I worded that badly - he did it for a laugh, I didn't see the funny side. Infact I was mortified, walked down the carriage to be away from him incase he got into trouble!

You can make the deterrent anything, but some people will always do it, esp kids who think (possibly correctly?) these sorts of punishments apply to adults and not them.

Regarding your final point, I have noticed that the general passenger populace seems to be going downhill lately. A lot of loud shell suits, racists (twice seen people get racially abused within less than a month), people who will brazenly light up a spliff / cigarette / vape mid-journey, body odor, drunk and loud during the middle of the day on a weekday etc. Had a group of young Mums get on with push chairs during rush hour last week have the audacity to have a go at a woman who was minding her own business claiming she was in the way, and then started deliberately hitting the pram against her feet until someone intervened.

Obviously I can only speak for my section of the line however.

#rant

 

[MetroCar4058]

Sounds like I'm the lucky one, only the odd shouty chav or dodgy looking squadron getting on at Regent Centre at my end

 

[Tetchytyke]

I have noticed that the general passenger populace seems to be going downhill lately.

I don't think it's just the Metro that's full of tramps and ASBO kids, to be quite honest. You should see the state of the people hanging around town. Not to mention those two clowns who were up on the Byker Bridge the other week swigging cider and demanding to HANG ALL THE PEODOS.

 

[ModernRailways]

Live to acquire that line another day! Does anyone know how strict Metro are in fining troublesome passengers? A silly child decided to press the emergency brake and cause a delay to service. Due to the school uniform, making it extremely to find the child. Would Nexus go on to find and fine?
I must admit, I thought the emergency braking had a bit more clought than it gave! I thought the magnetics would have dropped for maximum deceleration.

Depends on the situation. Most of the time it'll be down to the driver on how to proceed. However, yes they do prosecute for it.

Also, the emergency brake is strong, but there are a lot of variables to it.

 

[142094]

Passenger emergency brake doesn't bring on the track brake but a full service disc brake application.

The new tamper derailed going into Hylton Street depot in North Shields last night, also affected the track circuits between North Shields and Meadow Well.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Passenger emergency brake doesn't bring on the track brake but a full service disc brake application.

The new tamper derailed going into Hylton Street depot in North Shields last night, also affected the track circuits between North Shields and Meadow Well.

Doesn't sound too great; is there much damage to the Tamper?

 

[142094]

No news as yet.

 

[FS-2-11]

I passed it at about 07:40 on Thursday and I thought it was a simple failure and not damaged at all. I was on a St James-bound train which was held for longer than usual at North Shields, presumably while the driver was on to Control being cautioned past the red. We proceeded at caution past the yard, and the tamper was stationary on the yard line, in advance of the yard exit signal and just straddling the trap points, but not foul of the running line. In the evening the tamper was back in the yard with a gang working on the track at the yard exit.

 

[Scott M]

What would cause such a derailment?