It will certainly make it interesting for sure but going by the lack of driver training I do have my doubts unless they are going to use those drivers that have been part of the testing phase?
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Tyne & Wear Metro Fleet Replacement: Awarded to Stadler
- Thread starter swt_passenger
- Start date
It will certainly make it interesting for sure but going by the lack of driver training I do have my doubts unless they are going to use those drivers that have been part of the testing phase?
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Since GNR days tend to be a case of "all hands on deck" I'd imagine it wouldn't be too hard to diagram those drivers to run some 555s as extra short services or similar - though it will end up being limited by how far any additional training has progressed by that point.
By that date.
Hopefully they will have from the start the announcements that have recently appeared on the Merseyrail 777s, telling passengers on the train not to stand near the doors when approaching stations. I've noticed on a few 777s that the aluminum floor plates above the step modules have visibly deformed.
Are you positive of this? The last I heard was that September was the likely start date for training.
Given that over 30 drivers need to be trained to run one train in passenger service, and each driving course taking 3 weeks, starting at one week intervals, (not sure on numbers that will attend each course but likely between 4 and 10) it would take at least 5 weeks (best case scenario) before there was one train in passenger service.
ModernRailways
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According to @Trestrol the first unit will be in passenger service next week, and in other news Nexus are competent at running a transport network and also, pigs can fly
You seem to have very similar information to what I have, which corroborates what I have been told from people still working there. The earliest I’ve been told to expect is around October time which would sync up with ~September for the commencement of driver training.
Worth remembering that the people currently driving the units will still need a brief and to go through the same training and traction learning as all the other drivers before they can run a passenger service. It’s definitely possible for one driver to be trained up and a token extra service of Gosforth to St James and then back to the depot to operate to purely say ‘we ran a new train’ but whilst that was likely in the past, it no longer does appear that will be the case. I believe the plan is still to have the new units as ‘additionals’ at first supplementing the original fleet which will still be diagrammed to all jobs.
DanNCL
Established Member
It’s entirely conceivable that from Stadler’s perspective it could be ready for service, in the sense that testing may be done and it’s now just waiting for Nexus to train enough drivers. Doesn’t mean that Nexus will have dragged their backsides into gear in time.According to @Trestrol the first unit will be in passenger service next week, and in other news Nexus are competent at running a transport network and also, pigs can fly
It seems mad that those currently driving the units on test runs would need to go through the entire three week course. A brief and a little bit of extra training yes but three weeks for those already driving them seems a bit excessive. Especially as some of the test runs have carried uniformed CSAs in the passenger saloon, difficult to see how they can be considered part of the test team so they’d surely be in effect non-revenue passengers. Same for the person who does Nexus’s videos who has been on at least one of the test runs, possibly multiple.
Too true from Stadler's perspective it will be handed over. What Nexus do with it is up to them. We have debated this many times. Handover may have slipped slightly with minor rectification work to complete. This includes replacing a window which had a brick put through it on a test run.
The test train drivers are Nexus drivers recruited especially for the new fleet. They were trained in Switzerland on the new fleet. They would have to have been signed off on route knowledge as they can't have been chaperoned all this time. Nexus have had new units at the South Shields training centre for quite a while. So one would assume (never wise where railways are concerned) that drivers have had some tuition on the new fleet.
According to @Trestrol the first unit will be in passenger service next week, and in other news Nexus are competent at running a transport network and also, pigs can fly
You seem to have very similar information to what I have, which corroborates what I have been told from people still working there. The earliest I’ve been told to expect is around October time which would sync up with ~September for the commencement of driver training.
Worth remembering that the people currently driving the units will still need a brief and to go through the same training and traction learning as all the other drivers before they can run a passenger service. It’s definitely possible for one driver to be trained up and a token extra service of Gosforth to St James and then back to the depot to operate to purely say ‘we ran a new train’ but whilst that was likely in the past, it no longer does appear that will be the case. I believe the plan is still to have the new units as ‘additionals’ at first supplementing the original fleet which will still be diagrammed to all jobs.
I thought he said that the unit would technically be ready for passenger service next week but because there is no driver's trained on it it obviously can't be used?
Either way Nexus has said the back end of 2024 so I'll stick to that. Might be a chance one or even two may appear on the GNR day but I'll be surprised going by the comments on here
You'd hope that a more sensible solution is under development for that issue, to be honest - aluminium seems an odd choice for that part though!
They may not go through the full course, as you say they can already drive the trains, which means they could probably miss out on a lot of the simulator training and such, but they will still need to be assessed driving the full system and they will still need to be taught and assessed in all the relevant rules relating to passenger service which will still be extensive.
All metro drivers are signed off on route knowledge, but will still need assessed driving the route in the new traction.
Regular drivers have mostly had a look at the new train at this point but only for a short time.
Traincrew instructors have a training day going through the relevant systems and doing a small amount of shunting at NLC.
Not sure it would be personally. Last thing you want is teething problems to grind the whole line to a stop on the busiest day of the year. Not that the existing stock likely won't do that anyway.
Off peak during the week is surely the best time where they can cause the least disruption?
ModernRailways
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Precisely this, though it's worth noting that in the case of in-service faults, the existing stock tends to either be simple to get going again, or totally dead and cause major issues.
The new fleet is likely going to be a lot trickier to get going again, especially at first whilst maintenance staff fully get to grips with them and work out their quirks.
The plan was always to have them as 'additional' services at first, remaining solely on Metro's infrastructure keeping everything that little bit easier to control.
Nexus will have timelines with Stadler and if a unit is so close to being ready (a matter of weeks, or less than a week now according to some) then Nexus will be well aware of that. A FOI request to Nexus would ascertain that information.
They are staff employed by Nexus and will have been briefed.
Testing, and running in passenger service are totally different situations, and drivers will *all* require training on driving in passenger service and assessed and then signed off. Those on the testing team won't necessarily need the full training course, but will still require a not insignificant chunk of that training even if they do already know most of it. It's entirely possible some of the test train drivers will actually be the last to drive in full passenger service.
As @Volvictof has also said, route knowledge and traction knowledge are also not one and the same. The drivers carrying out testing already sign the full network, they sign the units in a testing capacity after carrying out training at Stadler, but they do not sign the units for passenger service.
Just to clarify the test train drivers as what I said was incorrect. These were existing Metro drivers who Volunteered to learn to drive the new fleet. They were sent to Switzerland to be taught to drive the new fleet. In reality they were taught the basics and left to get on with it. At the end of the training period they were assessed and were passed off on the new fleet. So they are passed to drive the old and the new fleet.
railfan249
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Partially correct. They will still need to go through the L&D learning course like everyone else.
ModernRailways
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This has already been told to you. In the simplest of terms, they can drive the current and new fleet, but they cannot drive the new fleet in passenger service without further briefing.
The will almost certainly not be signed off first.
it’s looking like they will be some of the last to be trained.
they will still be needed as specialists in the transition if the new fleet so there won’t be time to train them up until the transition is almost complete.
That's interesting thanks for the insight into what Nexus are planning.
ExRes
Established Member
The final 777 is being delivered to Wembley for transfer to Walton on Wednesday, nothing showing on RTT for Pelaw at all so I'd be surprised if a 555 was arriving as well
** And I remove my foot from my mouth as I see a gen site report of one 777 and two 555s, one of which is said to be 555021, being spotted in Northern France yesterday evening
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The 555 is to move to York Thursday morning.
555002 and 555021 have been spotted heading towards the UK in Germany earlier this week.
555002 was the unit that went to Arth-Goldau rather than Velim for testing - this means both units that were involved in the extended manufacturer testing will soon have been delivered.
555002 was the unit that went to Arth-Goldau rather than Velim for testing - this means both units that were involved in the extended manufacturer testing will soon have been delivered.
DanNCL
Established Member
555004 has become the second unit to begin daytime testing on the Metro network. Same route and timings as previously seen with 005.
I’m amazed they’re leaving this pair of 555s at Wembley for so long after what happened there with 555003. Presumably it’s so that the Rail Adventure power cars can take the 777 to Merseyside before going back to Wembley for the 555s. I’d have thought it’d have made more sense to have one pair of power cars do the Merseyside move and the other operational pair do the Tyneside move at the same time.
002 was tested both at Arth-Goldau and at Velim. It’s the most travelled of the class.
At least with the final 777 being en route, we know that all remaining deliveries are definitely 555s!
As with the previous delivery, it’s likely that one unit (002) has come from St Margrethen and the other (021) from Erlen, likely meeting at Konstanz. The 777 will have come from one of those two sites but unsure which.
I’m amazed they’re leaving this pair of 555s at Wembley for so long after what happened there with 555003. Presumably it’s so that the Rail Adventure power cars can take the 777 to Merseyside before going back to Wembley for the 555s. I’d have thought it’d have made more sense to have one pair of power cars do the Merseyside move and the other operational pair do the Tyneside move at the same time.
002 was tested both at Arth-Goldau and at Velim. It’s the most travelled of the class.
ExRes
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555002 & 555021 won't be spending much time at Wembley, due to leave tomorrow as 0246 6Q55 to York Holgate then 2229 6Q56 to Pelaw
2 pairs of power cars worked from Kings Norton today, one pair for the 777 and one pair for the 555s
2 pairs of power cars worked from Kings Norton today, one pair for the 777 and one pair for the 555s
Yes they were sat in Holgate Sidings most of today.
Wallsendmag
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Had a visit to the Nexus Learning Centre today the new simulator is impressive.
MDB1images
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Apologies, not familiar with the area/moves, when the Units arrive at Pelaw Goods loops, what happens next, do they move under their own power to the depot at Gosforth, or get dragged by another unit or suchlike?
DanNCL
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Pelaw Goods Loops is just a location to input into railway systems. The delivery working actually continues beyond there to a short distance beyond the Network Rail/Nexus boundary on the Jarrow/South Shields branch.
The new arrivals are then dragged to Gosforth, a pair of already delivered 555s will do the drag. The first three deliveries instead used 4 Metrocars and a coupling adaptor for the drag as at that point none of the 555s were able to do it themselves.
The process is something like this:
Delivery arrives from York formed HST Power Cars - barriers - 555s - barriers.
Rear barrier wagons removed from consist upon arrival and shunted out of the way, front barriers uncoupled but for now not moved.
Units for the drag then arrive and couple onto rear of the consist where the barriers have been removed.
555s then dragged off to Gosforth, leaving behind the power cars and the two now separated pairs of barrier wagons.
The power cars will shunt all of the barrier wagons back together then take them back to Wembley where they’ll then be put in a consist to head to Dollands Moor and eventually back to Europe.
It would have been so much easier if the south west curve at Benton had still been in. We could have had the consist delivered directly to South Gosforth car sheds. There could have been HST power cars on shed for the first time. Although I think the prototype HST did visit in the 1970's.