UK face coverings discussion

[MikeWM]

I think my current exasperation is more down to the fact I am regularly undertaking ticket inspections and attempting to make them as efficient and unintrusive for all concerned as possible. Instead of showing me their ticket I keep having individuals thrusting home made exemption cards in my face and then getting the hump when I say I couldn't give a monkeys about their card or indeed their exemption, I've asked for a train ticket as if my acknowledging it would validate it in some way.

The problem there is that it sounds like *you're* doing the right thing, but many other people in similar positions are not. Anyone unmasked who is approached by a figure in authority is going to assume that the first thing out of their mouth is going to be a comment about lack of mask, because most of the time that's what we're encountering.

 

[DB]

As pubs generally exist for meeting people not in your household, I can see the concern of the latter.

If the former, which is such a minor thing (how much time do you spend wandering around a pub as distinct from sitting drinking?), puts customers off, then it is the customers that are to blame.

Doesn't really matter who is to blame - if it puts off customers, then it's a problem for the businesses who rely on them.

The problem there is that it sounds like *you're* doing the right thing, but many other people in similar positions are not. Anyone unmasked who is approached by a figure in authority is going to assume that the first thing out of their mouth is going to be a comment about lack of mask, because most of the time that's what we're encountering.

That's clearly true - the government, by their vague and unclear messaging, have created a system which is inevitbaly going to lead to multiple confrontations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Doesn't really matter who is to blame - if it puts off customers, then it's a problem for the businesses who rely on them.

Well, it kind of does - locals who bleat about refusing to wear a mask for probably 2 minutes in total in their entire pub session need to grow up, mask up and realise that it is that stubbornness that will kill the pub.

We're not talking about them needing to wear one the whole time, just for walking from the door to the table, the table back to the door and for toilet visits. It's not like a 6 hour train journey, it's really incredibly, incredibly minor, and if you're exempt the legal exemptions continue to apply.

 

[DB]

Well, it kind of does - locals who bleat about refusing to wear a mask for probably 2 minutes in total in their entire pub session need to grow up, mask up and realise that it is that stubbornness that will kill the pub.

We're not talking about them needing to wear one the whole time, just for walking from the door to the table, the table back to the door and for toilet visits. It's not like a 6 hour train journey, it's really incredibly, incredibly minor, and if you're exempt the legal exemptions continue to apply.

But as I said, it doesn't matter who is to blame. If a sufficient number of customers consider it's enough or a hassle that they just won't bother going to the pub, then the pub has a problem which they probbaly can't do anything about.

 

[trebor79]

Well, it kind of does - locals who bleat about refusing to wear a mask for probably 2 minutes in total in their entire pub session need to grow up, mask up and realise that it is that stubbornness that will kill the pub.

We're not talking about them needing to wear one the whole time, just for walking from the door to the table, the table back to the door and for toilet visits. It's not like a 6 hour train journey, it's really incredibly, incredibly minor, and if you're exempt the legal exemptions continue to apply.

It's absurd though, as if putting them on for 2 minutes is going to make any difference.
I have found a mask that I can tolerate for longer than the others I tried. I take it off whenever I'm in a toilet, there's just no way I'm going to stand there and have droplets of other people urine, faeces and God knows what else soaking into it for me to breath in for the rest of the day.
I remain of the opinion that they are pointless and disgustingly unhygienic. I only wear one in circumstances when my wife or child is present, as the ear bashing from Mrs Trebor is worse than putting up with dermatitis on my face.

 

[bramling]

Well, it kind of does - locals who bleat about refusing to wear a mask for probably 2 minutes in total in their entire pub session need to grow up, mask up and realise that it is that stubbornness that will kill the pub.

We're not talking about them needing to wear one the whole time, just for walking from the door to the table, the table back to the door and for toilet visits. It's not like a 6 hour train journey, it's really incredibly, incredibly minor, and if you're exempt the legal exemptions continue to apply.

Do we *really* think it’s sensible to be putting a mask on just to walk a few metres? Especially remembering that the most popular masks are supposed to be single-use.

Seems to me like quite a risk for the sake of a tiny supposed benefit.

And is wearing a mask in the toilet really a good idea?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do we *really* think it’s sensible to be putting a mask on just to walk a few metres? Especially remembering that the most popular masks are supposed to be single-use.

Seems to me like quite a risk for the sake of a tiny supposed benefit.

The fact is it's the law. You do it, or you remove your business from your favourite pub over an incredibly minor inconvenience and it closes. Which will you choose?

And is wearing a mask in the toilet really a good idea?

I'll be honest, wearing one is making the stinking urine and faecal fug of motorway service station toilets far less unpleasant.

 

[DB]

The fact is it's the law. You do it, or you remove your business from your favourite pub over an incredibly minor inconvenience and it closes. Which will you choose?

Sounds like you are very much in favour of a police state!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sounds like you are very much in favour of a police state!

My general view on the law is that it should generally be quite thin, only banning and regulating things where strictly necessary, primarily to protect people from others (which all this COVID regulation is), but that it should be respected and enforced as such.

If that means I want a Police state, then yes, I do. But I wouldn't use the term Police state for that; to me a Police state is where the Police are legislator, judge, jury and executioner, and I very much don't support that.

 

[trebor79]

And is wearing a mask in the toilet really a good idea?

Not in my book, it's a terrible idea.

I'll be honest, wearing one is making the stinking urine and faecal fug of motorway service station toilets far less unpleasant.

I'll put up with a smell if it means I don't then have a piece of damp cotton for bacteria and fungus to start growing on, which I'm then later expected to clamp over my mouth and nose when leaving the premises.

Toilets are the one place I would not utilise my exemption if challenged - I would just say it's a ridiculous idea to wear them in a toilet. People need to start thinking for themselves again.

 

[Yew]

If the former, which is such a minor thing (how much time do you spend wandering around a pub as distinct from sitting drinking?), puts customers off, then it is the customers that are to blame.

No, it's the government that have chosen these restrictions.

 

[WelshBluebird]

and fungus to start growing on

Bloody hell how long are you wearing the same mask for!

 

[birchesgreen]

Got to say i was wearing a cloth mask for over 4 hours on Saturday and it didn't get damp or had fungus growing on it.

 

[trebor79]

Fungus and mould can grow incredibly quickly in warm damp environments. I'm very prone to athlete's foot, for example. If my feet get wet I start to get the tell-tale discomfort between my toes within an hour or two.

 

[Richard Scott]

Unlike visiting a shop or boarding a bus or train, flying is something most people do occasionally, and as such airport security is a minor inconvenience. Having to wear face coverings while going about everyday activities, and having other severe restrictions placed on everyday life, is a great deal more intrusive and onerous.

I agree there is a parallel between airport security and masks: both are examples of doing things for appearances sake, in reaction to a tiny actual risk, in order to appease the paranoid.

The thing is with airports if someone does get through the outcomes are large (remember USA didn't do security checks on internal flights until a certain event in 2001). The one person carrying the virus is not going to have the same effect so a poor analogy.

 

[AdamWW]

The thing is with airports if someone does get through the outcomes are large (remember USA didn't do security checks on internal flights until a certain event in 2001). The one person carrying the virus is not going to have the same effect so a poor analogy.

True, that is a big difference.

It is however untrue that the US didn't do security checks on internal flights until 2001.

They were certainly somewhat more relaxed than you'd get in Europe, and you didn't have to show a boarding pass or ID to go through security (indeed at most airports they were happy for people to go through to the gates to meet people arriving on flights). But you still had to go through a metal detector and put your luggage through an X ray machine.

 

[mmh]

Day one of mask wearing in shops in Wales. Elderly couple leaving the local small co-op without masks, I didn't put one on. Perhaps three other people in the shop, bemasked. The pleasant young lad at the counter, who I recognise to say hello to in the street, didn't question me but was masked himself.

Only other shop I've noticed is the baker's, where looking in neither the staff or customers had covered faces. I'm not getting too positive though, it's early days and I thoroughly expect things to get worse.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The one person carrying the virus is not going to have the same effect so a poor analogy.

Not directly - but indirectly they certainly can.
With a virus where infections grow exponentially if left to its own devices, it only takes one person to ultimately infect a large number if the conditions are right.
The number of people who brought COVID-19 into the UK in the first place will be small - but look at the effect it has had.

 

[greyman42]

Face coverings are now mandatory in Scottish pubs/restaurants unless eating/drinking. I know a lot of pubs who are unhappy with this rule and say that this/combined with the “2 households” rule in Scotland is going to kill their business.

Who's responsible for enforcing this. Is it the police or the business?

 

[Huntergreed]

Who's responsible for enforcing this. Is it the police or the business?

Same as everywhere else, so police

 

[keep truckin]

The thing is with airports if someone does get through the outcomes are large (remember USA didn't do security checks on internal flights until a certain event in 2001). The one person carrying the virus is not going to have the same effect so a poor analogy.

But on the other hand. IF one person carried Covid into the UK, it has now spread & caused 41,600 deaths. So maybe not such a poor analogy after all. Yes, there is a chance the virus may not spread as exponentially as it first did (especially if we're careful) or spread among different segments of the population not as vulnerable.

Unfortunately, the anti mask strain of argument on this thread is generally quite one sided & therefore unbalanced. Very quick to round on opposing opinion but not very critical of their own side. I know these are frustrating times, but balance is needed & I think the best route is to follow the best advice on this issue.

 

[greyman42]

Same as everywhere else, so police

So there is no need to wear a mask when moving around a pub/restaurant unless you wish to as the police will have more important things to police, and the pubs won't want to drive away customers by making a fuss.

 

[mmh]

So there is no need to wear a mask when moving around a pub/restaurant unless you wish to as the police will have more important things to police, and the pubs won't want to drive away customers by making a fuss.

It's also worth remembering that the police only proactively enforce the things they are told to. On the grounds of public health it's also been illegal to smoke on railway property outside a station for years. I doubt anybody has ever been prosecuted for it.

 

[island]

No-one sensible is going to argue that the security measures put in place for air travel aren't proportionate. The analogy makes no sense in its original form.

I regularly do just that; irradiating people wishing to catch a plane is in no way proportionate.

...however that’s something best served on another thread

The fact is it's the law. You do it, or you remove your business from your favourite pub over an incredibly minor inconvenience and it closes. Which will you choose?

Thankfully, this daft Scottish law has not made its way down south.

 

[AdamWW]

Compliance in ASDA this evening (in Wales) 100% so far as I could see.

Big change from a few days ago.

The security guard who normally sits in the corner monitoring CCTV screens was (masked up) facing the entrance, presumably to tell anyone off who tried to come in without a mask.

 

[35B]

So there is no need to wear a mask when moving around a pub/restaurant unless you wish to as the police will have more important things to police, and the pubs won't want to drive away customers by making a fuss.

Hmmm, wouldn't be so sure. Licensees may have one eye on the terms of their licenses, and the consequences for their livelihoods if subject to enforcement action for not applying the law.

 

[bramling]

Hmmm, wouldn't be so sure. Licensees may have one eye on the terms of their licenses, and the consequences for their livelihoods if subject to enforcement action for not applying the law.

Businesses are between a rock and a hard place. In my town there’s just been a shop totally demolished on social media simply for not having hand gel available in the entrance. When some have suggested people could use their own, this has been completely ripped apart on the basis that it’s not about hand sanitisation but about a business who “obviously don’t care, so should be boycotted”. It doesn’t help that a school locally has managed to get a teacher test positive - needless to say the Karens are having a total field day over that.

Interestingly in Wales the new regs seem to intimate that shop staff are not exempt as they are in England.

 

[kez19]

Was in St Enoch food court in Glasgow, wore mask had to sign card ie name/email/phone number for trace/protect (track/trace), then on leave say name and table I sat at... I admit I am visiting til Friday but I am finding this whole experience more authoritative than being pleasant, even on train down it was more of a paranoia effect settled in one carriage to be told to move as they needed it for space for next stop plus platform being shorter (4 in my carriage alone) I’m usually confident going about but this is having a negative effect on me. I wonder if I attempted Newcastle in November I’ll get the same experience train/place...

the train experience I’ll give it 5/10
Glasgow so far 6/10 (masks everywhere)

 

[35B]

Businesses are between a rock and a hard place. In my town there’s just been a shop totally demolished on social media simply for not having hand gel available in the entrance. When some have suggested people could use their own, this has been completely ripped apart on the basis that it’s not about hand sanitisation but about a business who “obviously don’t care, so should be boycotted”. It doesn’t help that a school locally has managed to get a teacher test positive - needless to say the Karens are having a total field day over that.

Interestingly in Wales the new regs seem to intimate that shop staff are not exempt as they are in England.

And I disagree with the lynch mob mentality, whether of dismissing people as "Karens" or "maskivists", or of coming down like a ton of bricks on an individual shopkeeper for their failure to provide gel at the entrance. That just about everywhere I go manages to provide it, and in current conditions it's a question of basic hygiene, might make me question whether I wanted to shop there, but that's about the wider issue of what constitute "good" or "bad" shops.

 

[mmh]

First day update from Wales: barman needed to go to the shop, refused. Went back into the pub and borrowed a mask from a customer.

My first experience of utter insanity here. Thanks to all the crazy people who made this possible.