Unable to Collect Tickets - Says wrong card but is correct card

[pjanvil]

I bought some Advance tickets from MKC-BPN from TP Express not had problems before using a Chase debit card. I went to collect my tickets today (for travel on Saturday) and it said the card does not match the one used to purchase. I have double checked and it is the correct card. The ticket office said they couldn't issue the tickets either as they were locked to the card (even though I had the correct card it wasn't accepting it). I called the TP Express number and they said all I could do was Purchase new tickets then request a refund of the old tickets but because they were Advance tickets that would cost me a lot more to buy on the day tickets then the Advanced tickets so surely I shouldn't be out of pocket because of a technical error their end. Any advice?

Just to add the only difference this time vs previous times when I havant had a problem is this time I entered the actual card on TP Express website whereas previously I had paid via Paypal. Not sure if thats related though

 

[Bletchleyite]

Chase give you a different card number for online use than the actual card. Unfortunately unlike Monzo who offer virtual cards, they don't actually tell you that. Thus Chase is incompatible with ToD unless you use a retailer that sets the "any card" flag. Really it is a very irresponsible approach that would make me reluctant to use them.

TPE can theoretically set that flag, but they may not agree to do so - if not, then you are pretty stuck and are unlikely to even get a refund as they are Advances.

Yes, PayPal is different because it can only be "any card" collection because they don't tell the merchant the physical card number.

 

[pjanvil]

Thats crazy, I bought a ticket in the normal way. I'd therefore expect to be able to collect it. Surely I'm not the first person to have done this especially with these types of accounts becoming more common. Theres no warnings about Chase doing these things and TPE should be able to allow me to collect my tickets I've paid for.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thats crazy, I bought a ticket in the normal way. I'd therefore expect to be able to collect it. Surely I'm not the first person to have done this especially with these types of accounts becoming more common. Theres no warnings about Chase doing these things and TPE should be able to allow me to collect my tickets I've paid for.

It is ridiculous - and it's all Chase's fault for their bizarre obfuscation surrounding the real card number, which is almost certainly to save them money on dealing with fraud. I am not aware of any other bank working in this way - plenty offer virtual cards such as Monzo but do so transparently, so I know not to use one to buy a ticket for ToD collection.

I wouldn't bank with them in a million years since I heard about this, and I'd recommend others avoid them too.

 

[Alex C.]

It is ridiculous - and it's all Chase's fault for their bizarre obfuscation surrounding the real card number, which is almost certainly to save them money on dealing with fraud. I am not aware of any other bank working in this way - plenty offer virtual cards such as Monzo but do so transparently, so I know not to use one to buy a ticket for ToD collection.

I wouldn't bank with them in a million years since I heard about this, and I'd recommend others avoid them too.

Whilst chase certainly have responsibility here, the industry should have a solution for these issues - whilst this one is a bank issue, it could equally be a lost, stolen or forgotten card - there is no reason that if you lose your debit card prior to collecting your tickets you should forfeit your booking.

Some retailers will change to any card on demand but others (most FirstGroup TOCs I believe) don't have the ability to do this. You may have luck asking a ticket office to issue them with just the booking reference (I've collected tickets from a GTR station in those circumstances before) but it's very inconsistent. The fact that you can use PayPal to get around this suggests that the fraud reduction aspect is fairly minimal - how much fraud does this restriction really prevent, vs the impacts on genuine customers?

 

[Deerfold]

Whilst chase certainly have responsibility here, the industry should have a solution for these issues - whilst this one is a bank issue, it could equally be a lost, stolen or forgotten card - there is no reason that if you lose your debit card prior to collecting your tickets you should forfeit your booking.

Some retailers will change to any card on demand but others (most FirstGroup TOCs I believe) don't have the ability to do this. You may have luck asking a ticket office to issue them with just the booking reference (I've collected tickets from a GTR station in those circumstances before) but it's very inconsistent. The fact that you can use PayPal to get around this suggests that the fraud reduction aspect is fairly minimal - how much fraud does this restriction really prevent, vs the impacts on genuine customers?

I usually use e-tickets now, but when I've had a lost card, or a card that has been destroyed due to receiving a replacement, I've never had any problem getting the retailer to set to any card collection (though it was once rather stressful as I was collecting just before departure). My local ticket office only tends to allow collection from them when there's problems with the ticket machine(s).

 

[Haywain]

Theres no warnings about Chase doing these things

This has been discussed a number of times and it has been said that Chase advise on this within their app.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This has been discussed a number of times and it has been said that Chase advise on this within their app.

They shouldn't do it at all. To my knowledge no other bank does.

 

[Haywain]

They shouldn't do it at all. To my knowledge no other bank does.

Shouldn't do what? My understanding is that Chase advise against using their app/card for ticket collection.

 

[pjanvil]

I never saw any such Advice, where would I find this?

I found this after googling just now but I doubt most people would find this before being stung by this the first time. https://www.chase.co.uk/gb/en/suppo...you choose to collect,card details at a kiosk. I still think TPE should have a way to issue me my tickets though

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

I never saw any such Advice, where would I find this?

I found this after googling just now but I doubt most people would find this before being stung by this the first time. https://www.chase.co.uk/gb/en/support/collecting-tickets/#:~:text=If you choose to collect,card details at a kiosk. I still think TPE should have a way to issue me my tickets though

Collecting tickets

When buying tickets online, we recommend choosing e-tickets rather than collecting tickets in person. This is because your physical numberless card has different details to the card details you see in the app – so, a ticket machine won't recognise your numberless card as the card used to buy the...

www.chase.co.uk

Collecting tickets​

When buying tickets online, we recommend choosing e-tickets rather than collecting tickets in person. This is because your physical numberless card has different details to the card details you see in the app – so, a ticket machine won't recognise your numberless card as the card used to buy the tickets.

If you choose to collect tickets from a machine, you may need to use your booking reference instead of a card number. You'll usually find this in the booking confirmation email from the company. Or you can try showing your in-app card details at a kiosk.

 

[SeanG]

Chase do advise against this in their app.
Surely though, Chase Bank customers would have a 'traditional' bank account or other credit card etc that they could use to buy train tickets (even if they would lose out on the 1% cashback)

 

[gordonthemoron]

I have had exactly the same experience at MKC with an HSBC card, fortunately I could use another card

 

[pjanvil]

I don't think most customers would see this unless they have been stung by it like me. It doesn't come up with a warning in the app before you complete the transaction, its only me specifically googling it after being stung by it I found the page in question. Obviously I know for next time (and won't use chase again) but there should still be a way of getting my tickets unlocked for any card collection like with Paypal. I have tended to avoid e tickets because of my worry of the battery running out on my phone, hence prefer physical tickets.

 

[HarryF]

Have you tried an Avanti or LNER ticket office? They can often print if you show them the collection code. I have been asked for ID when doing this though.

 

[pjanvil]

I tried SWR but they said they couldn't unlock it and print it because I'd bought it through TPE

 

[Bletchleyite]

Shouldn't do what? My understanding is that Chase advise against using their app/card for ticket collection.

They shouldn't hide the physical card number and show a virtual card number as if it was the physical card number, even if there's a silly little note they added in reaction to this causing problems (it wasn't there originally).

Virtual cards are fine, Monzo do them, but they are very obviously different, you have to create them, name them and they're very obviously not a physical card.

The whole idea is just grossly irresponsible and stupid. As, to be fair, is the railway not having a procedure for issuing tickets when a card can't be provided - going to a booking office with two pieces of ID, one photographic, should be more than enough.

 

[Haywain]

As, to be fair, is the railway not having a procedure for issuing tickets when a card can't be provided - going to a booking office with two pieces of ID, one photographic, should be more than enough.

Or having something at the payment screen saying 'don't use a virtual card because...'? I think that was the approach taken at LNER.

 

[pjanvil]

They shouldn't hide the physical card number and show a virtual card number as if it was the physical card number, even if there's a silly little note they added in reaction to this causing problems (it wasn't there originally).

Virtual cards are fine, Monzo do them, but they are very obviously different, you have to create them, name them and they're very obviously not a physical card.

The whole idea is just grossly irresponsible and stupid. As, to be fair, is the railway not having a procedure for issuing tickets when a card can't be provided - going to a booking office with two pieces of ID, one photographic, should be more than enough.

I agree, I didn't really understand why they didn't put the physical number on the card and it never occurred to me before this transaction (and I suspect many other Chase customers) before they have been stung by this. While I know for next time and the problem is caused by Chase the Railway should have a way of dealing with it.

I also agree, I didn't consider this to be a 'Virtual card' because I have a physical card in my wallet I was intending to collect the tickets with.

 

[Gaelan]

They shouldn't do it at all. To my knowledge no other bank does.

Apple Card (Apple's US-only Goldman-Sachs-issued credit card) does something similar. I think it's at least clear about which is which (with the app providing the last four of the physical card), though I don't have one to verify myself.

edit after looking at Apple's help pages: it does indeed only give you the last four of the physical card, not the full number.

 

[Trainbike46]

Shouldn't do what? My understanding is that Chase advise against using their app/card for ticket collection.

Personally, I would say that chase making their card less useful (by preventing it being used for being rail tickets online) is an argument against banking with them

Or having something at the payment screen saying 'don't use a virtual card because...'? I think that was the approach taken at LNER.

A sensible thing to do on LNERs part, but doesn't help in the case of chase as I understand it here because of the specific stuff chase is doing

 

[Bletchleyite]

Or having something at the payment screen saying 'don't use a virtual card because...'? I think that was the approach taken at LNER.

That helps, but this isn't the only reason you might need to collect tickets without the card used for the booking. For instance your card may be lost or stolen, you may be away from home and have forgotten to take it, or you may have had to replace it due to fraud. You could I suppose ask for a crime number to deal with "stolen" but it doesn't deal with the other two. It'd not be hard to simply have a consistent process.

A sensible thing to do on LNERs part, but doesn't help in the case of chase as I understand it here because of the specific stuff chase is doing

Yes, the issue here is that Chase really doesn't make it clear enough what they're doing - if they were offering two cards, a physical and a virtual, as you can with Monzo, there'd not be a problem. They just shouldn't obfuscate like that, they should give both sets of details with clear on-screen advice of when one should use each.

 

[Deerfold]

That helps, but this isn't the only reason you might need to collect tickets without the card used for the booking. For instance your card may be lost or stolen, you may be away from home and have forgotten to take it, or you may have had to replace it due to fraud. You could I suppose ask for a crime number to deal with "stolen" but it doesn't deal with the other two. It'd not be hard to simply have a consistent process.

LNER have been happy to allow me any card collection when I've had problems.

 

[Bletchleyite]

LNER have been happy to allow me any card collection when I've had problems.

It seems some TOCs have the facility to do this and some don't - the FirstGroup (Worldline) sites and apps don't, whereas LNER's own one and Trainline based ones do. I don't know about the more obscure ones, though I'm fairly sure Trainsplit (and thus the Forum site and Raileasy) always does "any card".

It seems beyond silly that the First/Worldline sites have no facility to deal with a lost or stolen card.

 

[redreni]

Chase has caused a problem that has prevented the rail industry being able to verify that the card presented at the TVM and ticket office was the same card as used to purchase the tickets.

That does not alter the fact that the card presented at the TVM and at the ticket office was the same one that was used to purchase the tickets. So unless anyone is able to point to anything the OP was required to do but did not do, the duty to fulfil the tickets that he had purchased rests, to my mind, with TPE as the retailer. If they're unhappy with Chase they should take it up with them. If they want to stop accepting Chase cards for purchases with ToD fulfilment that would be very sensible. But where a customer has already bought tickets that way, isn't it up to TPE to find a way to fulfil them? Like setting the "any card" flag, perhaps?

Does the forum's ticketing site set the "any card" flag, does anyone know?

 

[Haywain]

It seems some TOCs have the facility to do this and some don't - the FirstGroup (Worldline) sites and apps don't, whereas LNER's own one and Trainline based ones do.

LNER's doesn't but the customer services take a pragmatic approach and advise on collection from a Travel Centre.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That does not alter the fact that the card presented at the TVM and at the ticket office was the same one that was used to purchase the tickets.

Except it wasn't. It was a virtual card. The OP just didn't know it was because Chase obfuscates this somewhat.

The physical card has no numbers printed on it at all (as an anti fraud measure).

Does the forum's ticketing site set the "any card" flag, does anyone know?

I believe it does (and so Trainsplit and Raileasy) but not 100% sure.

 

[Haywain]

That does not alter the fact that the card presented at the TVM and at the ticket office was the same one that was used to purchase the tickets.

It wasn't the same card, it was a card that pointed to the same account. A subtle but very important difference.

 

[Bletchleyite]

LNER's doesn't but the customer services take a pragmatic approach and advise on collection from a Travel Centre.

This really requires a formal process, not discretion and pragmatism. Lost/stolen cards happen all the time.

 

[Haywain]

This really requires a formal process, not discretion and pragmatism. Lost/stolen cards happen all the time.

That is a process.