United Airlines forcibly removes passenger from overbooked flight

[DarloRich]

United CEO doubles down in email to employees, says passenger was 'disruptive and belligerent'


Found this update this morning claiming the passenger was 'disruptive and belligerent." Even if this is the case, I still firmly believe that there is no justification for the force shown in the videos.

I suspect that disruptive and belligerent is simply a way of saying he didn't immediately comply with our request and voiced, bluntly, his view on our competence as a company.He didn't appear disruptive and belligerent in any of the videos posted on the web.

 

[DarloRich]

It'll be interesting to see if the guy hauled off really was a doctor, or whether this was misinterpreted.

If you've seen the video where he gets back on the aircraft, bloodied, repeating "I need to get home" then you'd start questioning whether he was the full shilling.

It doesn't matter if he was a dosser.

United should not be asking renta cops/goons to render a man semi conscious and then drag him down the aisle of plane like a sack of coal.

 

[vrbarreto]

Would the staff have been in a safe condition to do their jobs after 300 miles in a car?

If a car was good enough, the passengers could have taken their $800 and hired one themselves.

It was $800 in United Airlines Vouchers which would have expired after a year.. So hiring a car would have put the passenger out of pocket.

Also the flight wasn't overbooked.. Everyone was in their seats ready to go and 4 company employees turned up wanting to travel.

Unfortunately for United they are in violiation of CFR 250.2a


§ 250.2a Policy regarding denied boarding.

In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall ensure that the smallest practicable number of persons holding confirmed reserved space on that flight are denied boarding involuntarily.

The passenger had a reservation... the employees did not.

Oh dear United.... Come fly the friendly skies..bah.

 

[WelshBluebird]

In which case they should start cancelling flights. That way minds will quickly become more sharply focused.

If they were travelling non-rev then I agree, but they are the first to get bumped. Going back to my example from yesterday, it was 2pm and there was a non-rev passenger who had been waiting since 3am and still didn't have a seat.

Operational staff need to get where they have to be or flights get cancelled.

Surely the answer is for United to sort their staff operations out then?
Since there was obviously a mess up somewhere along the line for this to have to happen.
If they have to cancel flights because they can't get themselves in order - well thats on them.

 

[Tetchytyke]

you'd start questioning whether he was the full shilling.

I wouldn't be "the full shilling" after being ****ed by airport police.

I see Oscar Munoz still doesn't understand the value of PR. Which explains why United are such a poor airline.

But when airlines moan about EU261 protection in these parts, this is a timely reminder why we have EU261 protection and why the airline industry can't be trusted.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They offered $800 for volunteers, which is well in excess of EU261.

 

[Tetchytyke]

They offered $800 for volunteers, which is well in excess of EU261.

No, they offered US$800 in United vouchers that expire after a year, and that's only allegedly. No cash was offered. Maybe if it had been they might have had a volunteer or two.

But then if they were going to offer cash, then they could have flown their staff on revenue tickets on the American Airlines flight that left an hour later...

Now if it had been $400 cash or $800 vouchers- which is basically what KLM/Air France do with EU261 claims- I'd have a little more sympathy.

 

[vrbarreto]

They offered $800 for volunteers, which is well in excess of EU261.

They offered $800 in United Vouchers according to some of the reports from passengers... Not much use if you're trying to get home and you can only use it with United or one of its codeshare partners.

But good to see that he defends his staff no matter what they do

We sought volunteers and then followed our involuntary denial of boarding process (including offering up to $1,000 in compensation) and when we approached one of these passengers to explain apologetically that he was being denied boarding, he raised his voice and refused to comply with crew member instructions.

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/oscar-munoz-ceo-united-airlines-full-text-letter-emailed-staff/

Although all the passenger on the plane say it was $800 in vouchers and not £1,000 cash.

 

[yorkie]

The airline had the option to increase the value of the vouchers or pay cash (or a combination) but chose instead to create £millions of damages to themselves in bad PR.

Their CEO sounds like a nasty piece of work; there is a petition calling for the resignation of Oscar Munoz which already has nearly 2000 signatures. Millions of people now know how bad this airline and its CEO is.

A huge own-goal for them, and they deserve all the bad publicity they get.

Perhaps the person did raise his voice at being forcibly removed but it's understandable given the circumstances and there's no excuse for the way the airline acted.

 

[AlterEgo]

I wouldn't be "the full shilling" after being ****ed by airport police.

Neither would I, but I probably wouldn't scream at having hands put on me, nor run back onto the aircraft dishevelled and repeating "I need to get home". The point is, I suspect he might not be a (practicing) doctor, but actually someone with a mental health issue who was owed a much better duty of care than what we saw in the video.

Still not flying United EVER, regardless of the circumstances this should never happen.

 

[DarloRich]

was there not some suggestion in an earlier statement that the person in question "failed to volunteer" to leave the plane.

 

[Howardh]

was there not some suggestion in an earlier statement that the person in question "failed to volunteer" to leave the plane.

As in "I've bought this seat, I'm sitting in it and I'm staying, and taking it away from me is theft?"?

 

[najaB]

Surely the answer is for United to sort their staff operations out then?
Since there was obviously a mess up somewhere along the line for this to have to happen.

Like most airlines, they don't have crew based in every airport they fly to/from. So a lot of airline crew rosters start or end with a deadhead leg.

The mistake wasn't in rostering, it was in selling the crew seats.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I suspect he might not be a (practicing) doctor

You'd suspect wrong, as far as I can tell.

The mistake wasn't in rostering, it was in selling the crew seats.

It was a bit more than that. If you let someone get as far as sitting on the plane with their seatbelt fastened then you've really missed the boat for IDB. Check-in is when you sort this stuff out.

Apparently the four staff turned up at the last minute. It's not clear they were crew for another flight, United certainly haven't said that. And if they were important crew, that makes it worse: their presence shouldn't have been a surprise and check-in should have IDBd the last four people to turn up.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Check-in? What's that?

It should be managed at the gate before boarding.

 

[vrbarreto]

Neither would I, but I probably wouldn't scream at having hands put on me, nor run back onto the aircraft dishevelled and repeating "I need to get home". The point is, I suspect he might not be a (practicing) doctor, but actually someone with a mental health issue who was owed a much better duty of care than what we saw in the video.

Still not flying United EVER, regardless of the circumstances this should never happen.

It's a classic sign of concussion....

* confusion, such as being unaware of your surroundings, a delay in answering questions, or having a blank expression

* balance problems or difficulty walking


Apparently his name is David Dao

Name:
David A. D. Dao M.D.
Address:
914 North Dixie Ave
City, State, Zip:
Elizabethtown KY 42701
Phone:
(270) 769-1049
License:
22439
Status:
Active Physician
Expiration:
2/28/2018 0:00:00
Practice County:
Hardin
*Area of Practice:
Internal Medicine
Type of Practice:
Private Practice
Year Licensed in KY:
1/27/1983 0:00:00
Medical School:
University of Medicine of Ho Chi Minh City
Year Graduated:
1974

http://web1.ky.gov/GenSearch/LicenseList.aspx?AGY=5&FLD1=dao&FLD2=&FLD3=0&FLD4=0&TYPE=

and if it is him he is quite the naughty person

http://www.state.ky.us/agencies/kbml/finalorders/22439.pdf

A sad tale of drug dealing, blackmail and prison.


None of which BTW excuses United for their enormous clusterf*ck.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's a classic sign of concussion....

* confusion, such as being unaware of your surroundings, a delay in answering questions, or having a blank expression

* balance problems or difficulty walking


Apparently his name is David Dao

http://web1.ky.gov/GenSearch/LicenseList.aspx?AGY=5&FLD1=dao&FLD2=&FLD3=0&FLD4=0&TYPE=

If that's true, then I'm outraged even more.

He must have been very badly concussed to have behaved like that. Appalling.

The Mail are claiming the cop has been suspended.

Jesus Christ, f*** United.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If that's true, then I'm outraged even more.

He must have been very badly concussed to have behaved like that. Appalling.

It's clear he's concussed.

And you're not as outraged as people in China are. Even state media there are claiming it was racist. Now that's a market you don't want to upset.

What a mess. And the United CEO saying the crew were right is only pouring petrol on the flames.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The crew may well have been right according to company policy. Why villify them?

If anything is wrong it is company policy.

 

[vrbarreto]

The crew may well have been right according to company policy. Why villify them?

If anything is wrong it is company policy.

The crew could have kept going up to the maximum allowed ($1,350) and also they could have offered cash instead of vouchers..

For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.

They did none of this and created a situation that will reflect badly on United for quite some time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The crew could have kept going up to the maximum allowed ($1,350) and also they could have offered cash instead of vouchers..

Do we know that for a fact? Was that perhaps not a policy of the franchise airline?

 

[vrbarreto]

Do we know that for a fact? Was that perhaps not a policy of the franchise airline?

according to media reports from the passengers they went up to $800 in vouchers and stopped there...

And even if it was being operated by Republic Airlines, passenger were considered United customers so were entitle to United's level of compensation.

 

[AlterEgo]

If you do some digging on Dao, you'll find some interesting stuff. He's facing 98 charges of illegal prescribing, plus he already has a conviction for illegal prescribing in exchange for sexual favours. He is also a professional gambler.

While it doesn't change the appalling way UA treated him, it's surprising the news hasn't picked up on this fruity stuff.

He's not the full shilling, doctor or not. He was found to have a mental health condition when unsuccessfully applying to get his licence back (he was given a limited licence to practice a couple of years back though). Glad my instincts weren't way off at least.

https://www.thelayoff.com/t/MK1fXsP

Some free journalism for you here:

http://www.state.ky.us/agencies/kbml/finalorders/22439.pdf

 

[jon0844]

I expect the media won't mention this because, in this situation, it's irrelevant.

Sure, it can be argued that he needed to comply, but it should never have got to this stage as someone would have had their price and agreed eventually. Real, proper, cash and maybe a hotel stay and transfers would have swung it I have no doubt.

If anyone does bring up this extra information, chances are the angry mobs will then turn on them. He could be a convicted rapist and I still don't see how the situation could be any more justified.

How many other passengers weren't squeaky clean I wonder? Well, I don't as it's none of my business.

 

[duncanp]

I wouldn't like to be the United employee who has to sit in the seat vacated by this man.

Can you imagine the looks they would get.

 

[AlterEgo]

I expect the media won't mention this because, in this situation, it's irrelevant.

Sure, it can be argued that he needed to comply, but it should never have got to this stage as someone would have had their price and agreed eventually. Real, proper, cash and maybe a hotel stay and transfers would have swung it I have no doubt.

If anyone does bring up this extra information, chances are the angry mobs will then turn on them. He could be a convicted rapist and I still don't see how the situation could be any more justified.

How many other passengers weren't squeaky clean I wonder? Well, I don't as it's none of my business.

Well, it still doesn't change the fundamental story - he was screwed by United and assaulted for his seat. And it still doesn't change my contempt for United.

However, it's an interesting dimension to the story. Why is the UA CEO being so cautious in supporting staff? Why did Dao act like a nutcase when he was removed? Have UA done some digging and hoped this would come out? It's a fascinating angle to the bigger picture. He's a convicted bent doctor with a mental health problem who prescribed drugs to a guy he fancied for sex (and later made him the office manager...), he's a six figure gambler and his wife is also apparently a doctor. Not even heavy.com have picked up on this, even though the information is readily available online and easily cross referenced with pictures of him.

There are two parties in the story, United, and Dao. I was curious as to what made him behave in the way he did so after his medical licence details were supplied I did some Googling.

I was right. He does have a mental illness and a history of instability.

United are still a***holes of course, and won't be getting a penny off me ever.

 

[Darandio]

United are still a***holes of course, and won't be getting a penny off me ever.

Don't be so dismissive yet.

Just think of the travel report, you could rock up in leggings on an overbooked flight, refuse to get off when asked then have the crap kicked out of you on camera.

The revenue for your channel would skyrocket.

 

[AlterEgo]

Don't be so dismissive yet.

Just think of the travel report, you could rock up in leggings on an overbooked flight, refuse to get off when asked then have the crap kicked out of you on camera.

The revenue for your channel would skyrocket.

Only if I was travelling as a non-rev.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The crew could have kept going up to the maximum allowed ($1,350) and also they could have offered cash instead of vouchers.

Those are the DoT regulations on IDB, put into UA conditions of carriage, which makes clear that airlines can offer vouchers but only if they make it clear that the passenger is entitled to ask for cash or a cheque. It's the equivalent of EU261.

But, as Air France/KLM show, you can always offer more than the legal minimum compensation if it's that important to you.

 

[jon0844]

Whatever his 'story' the fact is that while an airline has the right to remove anyone and that person MUST comply, you simply don't want to get into that situation.

They could have bribed someone else on that plane to get off. End of.

And having all this dirt dug up on the doctor is only going to help make sure he is now set to make a lot of money from this. It's a total PR nightmare and I can't imagine how the CEO can survive this.