Unverified proposals for Cl 222 Meridians on Waterloo-Exeter (and maybe beyond)

[21C101]

I've heard reports elsewhere that the 222s will go to Waterloo - Exeter after the Midland Main Line is electrified.

Also that the proposed South West franchise which will include Waterloo - Exeter won't include Paddington - Penzance intercities.

 

[Masboroughlad]

South West trains doesn't have Paddington to Penzance now!

Where does this info come from anyway?

 

[edwin_m]

I think it was someone in Modern Railways suggesting the all-diesel routes from GW and SWT might be combined into a new West of England franchise.

 

[Helvellyn]

I think it was someone in Modern Railways suggesting the all-diesel routes from GW and SWT might be combined into a new West of England franchise.

Ah, Wessex Trains lives!

 

[Xavi]

No thanks to the separate franchises. We'd get all the accounting-led nonsense of subsidy and bail-out required in the far south west (despite aged rolling stock) with an uncoordinated service, whilst the all IEP franchise would be 'highly profitable'. Now wouldn't that suit Whitehall.

 

[3141]

I've heard reports elsewhere that the 222s will go to Waterloo - Exeter after the Midland Main Line is electrified.

Between now and whenever the Midland main line is finally electrified there are going to be many suggestions about where the Meridians might go, but any reports about where they will go are just speculation for now.

Some people like to think that someone, somewhere has got every future detail worked out, but that must just be a reflection of a psychological need on their part, because what actually happens shows that very little has been worked out in that way.

 

[The Ham]

I've heard reports elsewhere that the 222s will go to Waterloo - Exeter after the Midland Main Line is electrified.

Also that the proposed South West franchise which will include Waterloo - Exeter won't include Paddington - Penzance intercities.

Unless the 222's can be changed to have the same capacity for travelling into London in the morning then it's highly unlikely to happen.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I know they won't because of the cost but could they physically be converted to AC?

 

[59CosG95]

I know they won't because of the cost but could they physically be converted to AC?

If a pantograph car was inserted in the middle, current could flow from the pan, through a transformer and then into the traction motors; it CAN be done. This was essentially the plan for Project Thor, but Bombardier had to shelve the idea, partially due to cost, and partially due to the fact that the DaFT weren't happy that the new coaches would be built in Bruges, as opposed to Derby.

 

[The Ham]

If a pantograph car was inserted in the middle, current could flow from the pan, through a transformer and then into the traction motors; it CAN be done. This was essentially the plan for Project Thor, but Bombardier had to shelve the idea, partially due to cost, and partially due to the fact that the DaFT weren't happy that the new coaches would be built in Bruges, as opposed to Derby.

IIRC for each set which resulted in a set which was 6 coaches or longer then two pantograph cars were needed.

Even trying to minimise the number of new coaches that's 40 resulting in 12 x 9 coach sets and 15 x 9 coach sets. Alternatively 40 coaches is a fleet of brand new 8 x 5 coach sets which could be designed and built from scratch without the cost of rebuilding the existing 222's.

 

[47802]

According to Tony miles on WNXX these were favourite for FGW West of England except on the current Midland Electrification timetable they wont be available until 2021 so more IEP is now favourite ahead of refurbished HST's and where the 220's end up is anybody's guess.

 

[The Ham]

According to Tony miles on WNXX these were favourite for FGW West of England except on the current Midland Electrification timetable they wont be available until 2021...

That is not a well liked idea on this forum, although personally I think it could work well and with the current number of sets (reformed to better match length) it could lead to an increase in seat numbers over the day to services to Cornwall. Which could then be boasted further with the introduction of IEP's (either new or cascaded bi-modal versions) with their higher seating capacity at a later date.

 

[fgwrich]

According to Tony miles on WNXX these were favourite for FGW West of England except on the current Midland Electrification timetable they wont be available until 2021 so more IEP is now favourite ahead of refurbished HST's and where the 220's end up is anybody's guess.

That is not a well liked idea on this forum, although personally I think it could work well and with the current number of sets (reformed to better match length) it could lead to an increase in seat numbers over the day to services to Cornwall. Which could then be boasted further with the introduction of IEP's (either new or cascaded bi-modal versions) with their higher seating capacity at a later date.

I believe it isn't FGWs preferred idea either, with the HSTs coming first and IEPs second with the idea of having the 222s coming in last place. I for one would rather not have the 222s, I'm not a fan of the anything in the Bombardier Voyager/Meridian family and can't see them being entirely popular with passengers all the way to Penzance. Certainly it was reported a few months ago as FGWs least preferred option.

 

[swt_passenger]

If (albeit unlikely) the DfT wrote 222s into a future GW franchise spec on a take it or leave it basis, an opinion expressed by FGW management some years earlier would soon be erased from the corporate memory.

 

[21C101]

Proposing to run class 222s from Padd to Penz when it is known they cant run along the sea wall in rough weather is plain daft.

 

[NSEFAN]

Proposing to run class 222s from Padd to Penz when it is known they cant run along the sea wall in rough weather is plain daft.

Is that down to the same issues that the Voyagers had, i.e. rheostatic braking resistors on the roof?

 

[21C101]

Is that down to the same issues that the Voyagers had, i.e. rheostatic braking resistors on the roof?

I'm guessing so, seeing as they are basically the same train

And not had with the voyagers, have, AIUI XC services are caped at Exeter St Davids from time to time when things are a bit rough. HSTs and Pacers just plough on.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I thought there had been a software update that stopped this being an issue on Voyagers.

 

[Rich McLean]

I thought there had been a software update that stopped this being an issue on Voyagers.

They still get terminated at Exeter St Davids, and according to my sister who travels on voyagers on this route daily, they still suffer with issues

 

[paulclass43]

I'll put a punt in for Scotrail. When the HST sets they are taking are completely knackered after just two years of bashing the Highland Mainline and it's grades, Scotrail are going to be screaming out for something like the 222's.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I thought there had been a software update that stopped this being an issue on Voyagers.

Software updates can't beat simple physics. A completely open, red hot resister plus seawater equals a very unhappy train. Potentially an explosion if there's enough electrical energy flowing into the resistors at the wrong time.

 

[CP165]

According to the latest Modern Railways FGW has ruled out both the 222s and refurbished HSTs for Padd-Penz, so it looks like more IEP sets will be used.

Also as a side note, interestingly the article says that FGW are looking at putting shortened HSTs on longer rural services to boost capacity. I wonder what these could be? Brighton-Bristol? Portsmouth-Cardiff? Weymouth-Bristol?

I think the 222s will end up with Scotrail to replace HSTs and maybe XC.

 

[Bigfoot]

I'll put a punt in for Scotrail. When the HST sets they are taking are completely knackered after just two years of bashing the Highland Mainline and it's grades, Scotrail are going to be screaming out for something like the 222's.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Software updates can't beat simple physics. A completely open, red hot resister plus seawater equals a very unhappy train. Potentially an explosion if there's enough electrical energy flowing into the resistors at the wrong time.

Surely that's chemistry...

 

[The Ham]

Also as a side note, interestingly the article says that FGW are looking at putting shortened HSTs on longer rural services to boost capacity. I wonder what these could be? Brighton-Bristol? Portsmouth-Cardiff? Weymouth-Bristol?

Reading - Gatwick? it would be much better than the 2 car DMU which turned up yesterday evening in the peak rather than the normal 3 car (which is normally full and standing).

Although due to platform lengths, it would only be possible as a second (third between Redhill and Reading) service an hour with a semi fast calling at stations with longer platforms.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

According to the latest Modern Railways FGW has ruled out both the 222s and refurbished HSTs for Padd-Penz, so it looks like more IEP sets will be used.

IEP will not go down well in some quarters (i.e. those who want HST's to last forever).

 

[D365]

Surely that's chemistry...

It's simple electricity, until you add the seawater...

 

[CP165]

Reading - Gatwick? it would be much better than the 2 car DMU which turned up yesterday evening in the peak rather than the normal 3 car (which is normally full and standing).

Although due to platform lengths, it would only be possible as a second (third between Redhill and Reading) service an hour with a semi fast calling at stations with longer platforms.

I think the door layout on HSTs would make this a non-starter, plus perhaps limited performance. Better to just keep (preferably longer) Turbos on the line. Or just electrify the damn thing!!

IEP will not go down well in some quarters (i.e. those who want HST's to last forever).

And those who just hate IEP regardless!

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Although due to platform lengths, it would only be possible as a second (third between Redhill and Reading) service an hour with a semi fast calling at stations with longer platforms.

Could you not use SDO (as fitted to FGW's HSTs)?

 

[47802]

Reading - Gatwick? it would be much better than the 2 car DMU which turned up yesterday evening in the peak rather than the normal 3 car (which is normally full and standing).

Although due to platform lengths, it would only be possible as a second (third between Redhill and Reading) service an hour with a semi fast calling at stations with longer platforms.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


IEP will not go down well in some quarters (i.e. those who want HST's to last forever).

Well that's tough it always seemed crazy to me that IEP is meant to replace HST's but not it would seem for the West Country

 

[ainsworth74]

I thought there had been a software update that stopped this being an issue on Voyagers.

I believe that the update reduced the sensitivity of the software. When first introduced it seems a drop of salt water was enough to make it panic and shut down. Now it takes a bit more of a drenching but, of course, it is still reasonably sensitive hence being turned back at Exeter when heavy seas are expected.

 

[TheWalrus]

The Voyager issue at the sea wall could be solved by cascading HSTs to XCs Plymouth, Paignton and Penzance services, and cascade Voyagers for strengthening.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Reading - Gatwick? it would be much better than the 2 car DMU which turned up yesterday evening in the peak rather than the normal 3 car (which is normally full and standing).

Although due to platform lengths, it would only be possible as a second (third between Redhill and Reading) service an hour with a semi fast calling at stations with longer platforms.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


IEP will not go down well in some quarters (i.e. those who want HST's to last forever).

HST's aren't route cleared for Guildford - Redhill, they're only cleared (courtesy of the defunct VXC) Reading - Guildford - Portsmouth - Eastleigh/Southampton and even then they need to be SSL coaches, LSL are banned from the former SR.